Official Countdown Grunfeld Era-2nd SuperStar?

[closg00]

There is plenty of evidence that I supported EG in this thread, so here goes.

There is plenty of recent developments that support a change of direction:

1) The Arenas trade. There is no plausible explanation for the trade, other than that the situation was so toxic that trading Arenas at any cost was the only possible resolution. This falls squarely on Grunfeld for not managing the PR better and losing all trade value.

2) The Blatche/McGee fight. Yet again, the Wizards players are unable to operate within team boundaries. Somehow, guys like Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest are able to contribute to championship teams, but the mere presence of immaturity seems to rip the Wizards franchise apart, whether it comes from Arenas, Blatche, McGee or Chris Webber before them. Why isn't this franchise able to reign in young talent the way every other franchise can?

1. The Arenas trade is looking better and better every day. It's becoming apparent that unloading him was addition by subtraction. The team has played with very good chemistry ever since. And we now have three pro's pros in Hinrich, Howard and Lewis to set the tone for the youngsters. It's working. The team has played five consecutive good games. If those games didn't happen to be against good teams on the road, or elite teams at home, we'd have had a few more wins.

2. I think a consistent zero-tolerance policy is finally the right solution to what ails this team. I think EG's reaction to the fight is positive. It certainly looks to be working on the court. McGee and Blatche have played two consecutive good games.

3. My guess is that no trade will take place because the offers aren't good enough. Indeed, the media reports about shopping Blatche may only be to light a fire under him. I'll wait until Blatche is traded for crap before I complain about it. For now, there's nothing to complain about because no trade has taken place.

I agree with both of you largely. The Org horribly botched the handling of Gilbert since his first knee surgery, but now it's time to move-on Lewis is starting to gel with the team and we are certainly playing better TEAM ball now.

The "Incident' at the night-club was horribly overblown and the Org over-reacted also. No suspension was necessary. The Insider links to this account of "the incident".....totally overblown.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... -vex-club/

[AceDegenerate]

For all the Arenas trash talk, the team still sucks. 8-22 wow! Playoffs here we come! Alert the media: Rashard Lewis for MVP!

Arenas has played better than Lewis, plays a position that we actually could use support at, and the Magic have won way more than we have. Somehow the trade worked out though because idiots like to imagine moral victories for an NBA cellar dweller.

All I see is longtime Wizards fans scratching and clawing and begging for a way to view themselves as Winners in a trade for once. It's not going to happen, by every method of measuring a trade this one will always be a failure. Arenas will play better and produce better than Lewis (in the SAME role off the bench), the Magic will undoubtedly be more successful post-trade than the Wizards will. The Wizards will not go on to do anything valuable with the 1 year of $$$ saved on this trade. There is absolutely nothing that says this trade works out for the team other than some BS moral victories the same haters who wanted Arenas gone in the first place are the only ones seeing. There's no moral victories in professional sports, your team is GOOD or your team is BAD.

You all need to get real, the team still sucks as bad as it ever has.

See you bums in the lottery.

[nate33]

For all the Arenas trash talk, the team still sucks. 8-22 wow! Playoffs here we come! Alert the media: Rashard Lewis for MVP!

Arenas has played better than Lewis, plays a position that we actually could use support at, and the Magic have won way more than we have. Somehow the trade worked out though because idiots like to imagine moral victories for an NBA cellar dweller.

All I see is longtime Wizards fans scratching and clawing and begging for a way to view themselves as Winners in a trade for once. It's not going to happen, by every method of measuring a trade this one will always be a failure. Arenas will play better and produce better than Lewis (in the SAME role off the bench), the Magic will undoubtedly be more successful post-trade than the Wizards will. The Wizards will not go on to do anything valuable with the 1 year of $$$ saved on this trade. There is absolutely nothing that says this trade works out for the team other than some BS moral victories the same haters who wanted Arenas gone in the first place are the only ones seeing. There's no moral victories in professional sports, your team is GOOD or your team is BAD.

You all need to get real, the team still sucks as bad as it ever has.

See you bums in the lottery.

I like how you keep posting the record including the games with Arenas. If your assertion is that Arenas was the only thing keeping this sucky team afloat, then you should just post the record following the trade.

Pre-trade, our record was 6-18. Post trade, it's 2-4. Essentially, there has been no difference in the win loss column. However, if you look deeper, you will note that those 6 post-Arenas games included 3 games against above .650 teams plus another game against a .500 team who had one 7 of their last 9. Our net point differential during that stretch was +18, for an average of +3 per game. Our average point differential prior to Arenas' departure (against worse competition) is -8.5.

The team is much better post trade. I'm not going to pin it all on Arenas. Some of it is the addition of Howard. But clearly, there has been a change, and it's not entirely coincidental that the change happened the very next game after Arenas' departure.

[leswizards]

Arenas has played better than Lewis, plays a position that we actually could use support at...

Seriously? The Wizards 2 best players are point guards, and Gil sucks as a SG. The Wizards have not missed Gil because Wall and Kirk are more than capable of replacing Gil at the point, while Nick Young is a huge upgrade over Gil at the 2. Hell, even Kirk is an upgrade over Gil at the 2, and Kirk is not that good a shooting guard (basically Kirk is an acceptable back up shooting guard).

[LyricalRico]

Arenas has played better than Lewis, plays a position that we actually could use support at...

All Gil's recent play proves is that he can be successful as a supporting player on a good team. He's basically a rich man's Jason Terry in Orlando, supplying punch off the bench for a team with enough overall talent to be considered a contender. No pressure to carry the load, and there is pre-existing leadership in the locker room. Those conditions are TOTALLY different than they would have been here in DC (both now and over the next few seasons), so IMO there is no reason to expect that he'd be playing the same way had he stayed in a Wizards uniform.

[DCZards]

The "Incident' at the night-club was horribly overblown and the Org over-reacted also. No suspension was necessary. The Insider links to this account of "the incident".....totally overblown.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... -vex-club/

C'mon closg00, this City Paper article is pure spin from a club owner who is trying to keep his club open in the aftermath of some negative publicity. For those of you buying into the it was "only a shoving match" between AB and JM spin, I got an eyewitness account that saw McGee land a solid punch to Dray's head. Also, why would the Wizards org. come back and levy suspensions after initially downplaying the incident if it was "only a shoving match?"

[DCZards]

The team is much better post trade. I'm not going to pin it all on Arenas. Some of it is the addition of Howard. But clearly, there has been a change, and it's not entirely coincidental that the change happened the very next game after Arenas' departure.

I love me some Arenas and was looking forward to him and Wall tearing it up as a top backcourt, but I have to admit that I like seeing Lewis and Howard out there. Both Lewis and Howard are polished, mature NBA vets who play hard and are a threat to score whenever they touch the rock. Both are also very versatile. Lewis can play both forward positions while Howard can play SF, SG and even some PG like he did last night.

I also expect to see the Zards let Lewis use his size and length in the low post (which happened a couple of times last night) much more than he was able to do in Orlando where they have Superman in the low post. In fact, Flip mentioned that he looked at film of Lewis when he played with Seattle and said he wanted to bring back the low-post aspect of Lewis's game.

Right now, I'm liking the trade. I see four core players who weren't even in the mix last year (Wall, Young, Howard, Lewis) as the guys who give the Zards the best chance of winning when they're on the court.

[closg00]

The "Incident' at the night-club was horribly overblown and the Org over-reacted also. No suspension was necessary. The Insider links to this account of "the incident".....totally overblown.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... -vex-club/

C'mon closg00, this City Paper article is pure spin from a club owner who is trying to keep his club open in the aftermath of some negative publicity. For those of you buying into the it was "only a shoving match" between AB and JM spin, I got an eyewitness account that saw McGee land a solid punch to Dray's head. Also, why would the Wizards org. come back and levy suspensions after initially downplaying the incident if it was "only a shoving match?"

I also know someone who was there and the two had been drinking. Haven't you ever done something stupid while-drinking that you later regretted? People couldn't wait to tweet about this nonsense.
No laws were broken, no-one was hurt and no-charges were filed. It only got out because of who was involved.

[LyricalRico]

No laws were broken, no-one was hurt and no-charges were filed. It only got out because of who was involved.

And your point is? If they didn't want their lives to be more public than the average person's, they should have chose a different profession. If you want to decry the way athletes are treated by society, that's another discussion. But in terms of what would have happened had this been two other professional athletes on another team, I don't think anything would be different about what got out and how. Blatche and McGee were treated "fairly" based on the existing standard for athletes IMO.

[closg00]

No laws were broken, no-one was hurt and no-charges were filed. It only got out because of who was involved.

And your point is? If they didn't want their lives to be more public than the average person's, they should have chose a different profession. If you want to decry the way athletes are treated by society, that's another discussion. But in terms of what would have happened had this been two other professional athletes on another team, I don't think anything would be different about what got out and how. Blatche and McGee were treated "fairly" based on the existing standard for athletes IMO.

My point is that they did nothing that was worthy of suspension, the entire thing would have blown-over or not even gotten out at all were it not for eager tweeters (The club regularly w/o incident). OTOH, if there existed some kind of long-simmering feud between the two that erupted into "the event" then sure a suspension would have been justified.

[Mr. Grundle]

No laws were broken, no-one was hurt and no-charges were filed. It only got out because of who was involved.

And your point is? If they didn't want their lives to be more public than the average person's, they should have chose a different profession. If you want to decry the way athletes are treated by society, that's another discussion. But in terms of what would have happened had this been two other professional athletes on another team, I don't think anything would be different about what got out and how. Blatche and McGee were treated "fairly" based on the existing standard for athletes IMO.

My point is that they did nothing that was worthy of suspension, the entire thing would have blown-over or not even gotten out at all were it not for eager tweeters (The club regularly w/o incident). OTOH, if there existed some kind of long-simmering feud between the two that erupted into "the event" then sure a suspension would have been justified.

It may have been overblown, but this is the world we live in now. Incidents like these cannot be contained anymore. All you need is one person with a cell phone and a twitter account, which is everyone, and the story is out there. An embellished story probably.....it makes for a more interesting tweet. The exact same situation happened with GilGunGate. A bad joke was immediately turned into 2 guys pulling guns on each other.

The only way to avoid it is to not put yourself in these situations. This is why I support the zero tolerance policy. It's not clear whether the policy was communicated to the players before or after this incident. If it was before, then you can't argue the suspension.

God I hope this isn't Brenda vs The Poet Part II.

[nate33]

Why is it such a bad thing that they got suspended? It seems like it worked to me. Both guys have played great since then.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Zero tolerance policies IMO are punitive and not preventative nor even do they deter problematic situations. I think are arbitrarily draconian. A one-size-fits-all problem solving approach that suits the goal of those in power to be exediently harsh without giving due diligence to what is fair or prudent.

Smug and unthinking authority figures IMO wield the most power by issuing mandates that benefit themselves. That is what zero tolerance does. It does not investigate causation mitigating circumstances. It does not consider the big picture or the greater good.

So what if McGee punched Blatche? The world did not need to know.

[nate33]

Good grief CCJ! You make it sound like EG suspended McGee and Blatche for the season. It was a one-game suspension and it was something that could not be covered up because the media got wind of it. A one-game suspension seemed perfectly appropriate to me. It seems pretty evident to me that both players need structure. If you want to argue that one size does not fit all, that may be true. If Booker did something dumb for example, he might not deserve a suspension. But the suspension shoe certainly does fit Blatche and McGee.

One can argue whether the leaked trade rumor was a disciplinary measure or not. I think it was, and it seems to have worked very well.

[hands11]

Yeah. I was thinking the same things about the start rumors.

But that aside, it's not a bad idea to get the word out there that you are a trading partner. You never know who might be listing. All, he help to value your players. If they are talented enough to get offers, you could actually raise their value.

What we do know is that they are rebuilding so anything is possible regarding how this team will end up.
Specially given their record. Now if they start to win some, that could change. But what I know they don't want is a bad atmosphere. The bar fighting stuff just isn't going to be tolerated and it shouldn't. Not with what they are trying to do and certainly not on a team that has lost as much as they have.

[Illuminaire]

Zero tolerance policies IMO are punitive and not preventative nor even do they deter problematic situations. I think are arbitrarily draconian. A one-size-fits-all problem solving approach that suits the goal of those in power to be exediently harsh without giving due diligence to what is fair or prudent.

Smug and unthinking authority figures IMO wield the most power by issuing mandates that benefit themselves. That is what zero tolerance does. It does not investigate causation mitigating circumstances. It does not consider the big picture or the greater good.

So what if McGee punched Blatche? The world did not need to know.

Grace versus law! Grace versus law! Not really, just kidding. =p

I understand part of what you're saying, but I think you're forgetting a critical part of the equation (that Nate touched on) - namely, the scale of the punishment itself. A one game suspension is not going to kill 'Dray or McGee. It's a sharp, crisp slap on the wrist, and seems very appropriate for the nature of their mistake.

I agree that a zero-tolerance policy with extreme or fixed punishments can be very much what you described. However, while the the Wiz have said that they will punish any off-court issues, they have NOT set a fixed bar for what that punishment will be. They have left themselves a great deal of flexibility for taking into account causation, while also firming up a behavioral line that has all too muddled and weak in the past.

I think the Wiz' new policy is a great one, as long as they keep it up with firm consistency. The short term of losing a game because they had to sit a knucklehead out doesn't matter nearly as much as setting a higher standard of focus, effort, and attitude that will help the entire team for years to come.

Huh. In re-reading your response, I don't think we disagree very much with the theoreticals. We do seem to be interpreting the Wiz' front office's new policy quite a bit differently, though, which leads us to expect different results. Guess we'll find out, hehe.

[DCZards]

So what if McGee punched Blatche? The world did not need to know.

The world may have not needed to know but when two pro athletes (especially teammates) scuffle in front of dozens of people the world is going to find out. Suspending AB and McGee, at least for one game, was appropriate given that they behaved very badly in front of Wizard fans---and some of those fans would expect the Zards org. to do something to discipline them.

BTW, someone mentioned Trevor Booker. I understand he was also in the club that night,but apparently not hanging with either Blatche or McGee. Smart man!

[montestewart]

I've been disappointed in the past with the way EG and the Wizards have managed team discipline and the image projected to the public, and also with the way they've supported their players, particularly Arenas. The relationship between ownership/management and the players is not the same as between parents and children, but there are some similarities. Expectations need to be clearly communicated, rewards and punishments clearly and fairly dealt out, all with consistency. When players are out of control, they need to be disciplined, and when players are in trouble (even trouble of their own making) they need to be supported, and it's not always easy to balance those two.

I don't know whether a suspension was merited, but considering recent Wizards history (including Blatche's own history) I'm not going to judge a measly one-game suspension. If the team was tearing up the league, that might be a different story, but this team is headed toward it's third straight really bad record, and it's not only because of lack of talent or poor coaching. This team (players, coaches, and management) needs to look at other successful teams and the discipline with which those teams and players prepare themselves for games and execute. Act like a winner, and don't get in a fist fight with a teammate in public. Channel that aggression into defeating the enemy. Maybe get a road win someday? That would go a long way toward improving the Wizards public image.

[WizarDynasty]

20 Plus games have gone by and our number draft pick still doesn't know where the 4 other position are suppose to be each second on a 10 second play. Our number draft pick has not improved not even slighly with his dribbling skills in the half court setting. Our number one draft pick still plays defense standing straight up instead of maintaining a continuous squatting position. OUr GM has allowed this to continue to happen 20 games into the season.

I don't know where to begin but our only hope is in "Ted we Trust".

[WizarDynasty]

so we lose again on New Years EVe because Flip hasn't trained our bigs to get physical against with pick setters. We let every big man set a moving screen...if grunfeld was a good gm, he wouuld insruct flip to have our bigs shove a big so that the defensive big have balance when he is setting a moving pick. Poor coaching.
OUr guards are getting destroyed because EG and Saunders blatche and mcgee get away with not knocking off a defensive big balance when he is setting a pick against our guards.
and of course, john wall can't maintain a point guards dribble which means that you never let the ball dribble above your knee in a half court set. Everyone can see that a decent coach would have repaired this in teh summer. flip and Eg era.

Wall and his poor half court handle, and our bigs letting their men get away with mvoing picks instead of knocking pick setters off balance just before the pick with a powerful shove. But we have soft bigs and poor coaching.