Toolin with the Trade Machine

[Rockice_8]

I know this will never happen but I was bored.

Nets trade
Hump
Ross
James
Graham
Murphy
Favors
Morrow
2011 LA 1st
HOU 1st.
GS 1st.
2013 1st top (10 protected)

Receive
Melo
Mayo
Wallace

Bobcats get
Hump
Ross
Graham (all expiring)
D James
GS 1st.

Mem gets
Morrow
2013 (1st top 5 protected)

DEN gets
Favors
Murphy
HOU 1st
LA 1st.

We still have our 2011 1st which we will need to get more size up front, but really I want to know how good that lineup would be and which team if any would decline. I tried to make it as fair as possible for all parties. DEN should have no problems. CHAR gets a decent young player in James, expirings and a possible lottery in the GS 1st. so they shouldn't have any beef. MEM gets a solid bench replacement and another 1st. Hopefully all teams agree that it's fair compensation.

So how good is this lineup
Harris/Farmar
Mayo/Vujacic
Melo/Outlaw
Wallace/Outlaw
Lopez/Petro

We are a little undersized up front and have no backup PF but thoughts?

And yes I know this will never happen but it does seem to fit what teams would want to do moving forward.

[enetric]

Not only will this never happen...but at some point you should put in your signature a groveling admission about how insanely wrong you were about the Troy Murphy scenario and its awful impact on our ability to get the Melo thing done.

Did you read Al Iannazone today? Devin, Favors, picks...AND we get to eat bad contracts with Melo to get him.

And they don't even want Devin. Devin would go to the Cavs. Why the Cavs? Because they are one of the few teams out there with cap space or a TE large enough to give Denver what they really wanted. What I FREAKIN TOLD YOU all along. CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freakin Troy trade. I don't care if he were having a career year. It was an awful short sighted waste of cap space. This should be a wake up call for you and the batch of now "waived" knuckleheads who didn't get it.


Oh...we need a guy like Troy because it will help Brook so much. He cant go through another season losing that many games or else he will end up wearing a dress.

So? You got the guy who has no role...lost the cap flexibility...AND WE STILL SUCK!!!!!!!

It was a trifecta of stupidity. Can I get an AMEN??????

[NyCeEvO]

Amen brotha!

[Rockice_8]

E let me just start by saying I never was behind the Murphy trade. I thought it was just a lateral move.

What I will say though is that I still don't think this is keeping us from landing Melo. HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE. It's so obvious that he wants nothing to do with us. Who cares what DEN wants, the fact of the matter is Melo doesn't want to be here. DEN always wanted Favors with or without Murphy (he's the center piece). What we now have to throw in a few worthless picks that most teams just sell away.

We lose the flexibilty to do what. We have far and away the best package with or without Murphy and we still can't land a star. This trade hasn't done anything to deter us from landing a star cause they don't want to be here.

If anything you should be complaining about the Outlaw signing that is going to actually have some lingering effects on our future, not some stupid trade that was supposed land us a one year rental for our young PF to learn behind.

[NyCeEvO]

E let me just start by saying I never was behind the Murphy trade. I thought it was just a lateral move.

What I will say though is that I still don't think this is keeping us from landing Melo. HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE. It's so obvious that he wants nothing to do with us. Who cares what DEN wants, the fact of the matter is Melo doesn't want to be here. DEN always wanted Favors with or without Murphy (he's the center piece). What we now have to throw in a few worthless picks that most teams just sell away.

We lose the flexibilty to do what. We have far and away the best package with or without Murphy and we still can't land a star. This trade hasn't done anything to deter us from landing a star cause they don't want to be here.

If anything you should be complaining about the Outlaw signing that is going to actually have some lingering effects on our future, not some stupid trade that was supposed land us a one year rental for our young PF to learn behind.

I think you may be going a bit too far in saying that he doesn't want to be here. You didn't add the proper qualifiers to the statement.

NO STAR wants to be in NJ at our CURRENT status. This isn't even so much about location and the name "New Jersey" rather than a talent level issue. If we are honest with ourselves, we know that the Knicks are currently better than us and barring any injuries will make the playoffs. They could solve the three main areas that Melo probably cares about being 1) Location 2) Talent on team 3) Coaching system/philosophy.

I don't know why people keep forgetting this but when asked about the idea of playing for the Knicks, Melo came out plainly and said that he does not like playing on a team that does not play defense because he's done it once and said he doesn't want to do that again. Everyone acts like he's simply begging to go to the Knicks. I truly believe that he sees it more as a "best of the available teams" situation. Currently, the Knicks are probably the best team (record wise) that can actually get him. Being on the Knicks also brings him back to the East Coast so he can be closer to Baltimore, where he grew up (and unfortunately also where the children of his recently deceased sister live). I think that recent event could make it even easier for him to come to the East Coast to support his sister's kids and play in an area close to him.

I already posted in the Melo thread the complexity of the Nets situation. They know that the only way to satisfy him (aka getting him to sign the extension) is to surround him with other talent. (I absolutely hate the idea of paying $22 mil per season but this is what management is willing to do.) What the Nets are trying to do is acquire enough picks and get lay the foundations for a massive multiteam deal so they can say "Hey Melo, you see? We revamped our entire roster just for you. And now that we're more talented, you can sign the extension." I can't say for sure if having Murphy will kill any deal simply because it seems like the Nets are actually getting other teams besides the Nuggets, who actually want Murphy's expiring contract, and who are willing to trade. To me, this is why I will hold my judgment until I see what the end result is for us. Like I said in the Melo thread, the idea of acquiring enough talent that will make us that much better is already hard and complex enough in itself. The chance that we end up with a great result in a multiteam deal are slim and therefore most of us aren't feeling to happy right now.

E's correct in saying that Denver doesn't want Murphy. They want savings/cash. The only thing is that the Nets might not even want/are offering Denver to take Murphy. It seems like they want to use him in a separate deal or for another team to acquire other players. All in all, we're in a quagmire right now. There's a small chance that King could do something great that most of us aren't anticipating but that chance is small. We'll just have to wait to see if we're actually completely destroying the franchise by being really impatient or if we're (somehow) going to get enough pieces to be a great team. I don't have a crystal ball so I don't know what's going to happen but these next few weeks shall be pretty interesting.

[Rockice_8]

^^

Do you see some of these names being thrown around? Billups, Harington, Andre Miller, are you kidding me we aren't going to win anything with those guys. We can't compete with the Lakers or Heat when we have no capspace, no picks left, and no way to get better.

You really are still in denial that Melo wants to be here. The only thing saving us from looking like complete jackasses in this is that he wants his money. The second he says money isn't his main concern is the second we get put in our place and we look like a joke. You think guys we have now want to play here when everyday all they hear about is how bad we want Melo and we'll trade everyone to get him and make him happy. What kind of message are we sending to our players?

We have a ton of assets (picks and capspace) and need so much more then one guy on the wing to help this team get anywhere near the top. Look at what we want to build and tell me you can sit there and get excited about this. We want to be DEN east, a team that can't get past the second round, with guys like Billups or Miller who have one foot out the door already.

This whole situation stinks of pure desperation where we put everything on the line for a guy who doesn't want to be here and can't get us to where we want to be. Thats a great strategy.

[NyCeEvO]

^^

Do you see some of these names being thrown around? Billups, Harington, Andre Miller, are you kidding me we aren't going to win anything with those guys. We can't compete with the Lakers or Heat when we have no capspace, no picks left, and no way to get better.

You really are still in denial that Melo wants to be here. The only thing saving us from looking like complete jackasses in this is that he wants his money. The second he says money isn't his main concern is the second we get put in our place and we look like a joke. You think guys we have now want to play here when everyday all they hear about is how bad we want Melo and we'll trade everyone to get him and make him happy. What kind of message are we sending to our players?

We have a ton of assets (picks and capspace) and need so much more then one guy on the wing to help this team get anywhere near the top. Look at what we want to build and tell me you can sit there and get excited about this. We want to be DEN east, a team that can't get past the second round, with guys like Billups or Miller who have one foot out the door already.

This whole situation stinks of pure desperation where we put everything on the line for a guy who doesn't want to be here and can't get us to where we want to be. Thats a great strategy.

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I say Melo WANTS to come to NJ??/ I never said that. All players have to make decisions that satisfy their most basic desires. He could want to go to Phoenix for all I care but if Phoenix sucks and his desire to win a championship is higher than his desire to play in Phoenix, then he cancels that team out like any logical person would. All I said was this claim that he WANTS to go the Knicks at all costs should be scaled back because he's already says that he wants to play on a team that plays defense. He particularly called out D'Antoni for that. Also, he doesn't want to go to a team that guts its roster just to acquire him. I've never said that Melo wants to come to the Nets. I've had commented at length on how much the Nets want Melo but that's it. Plus, if you're so adamant that Melo isn't coming to the Nets, why are you creating threads and trades about it? I'm not trying to get in a debate or anything but you should read what we're saying and not insinuate other things that haven't been said.

Neither E nor myself said that we want him at all costs. In fact, we've both cautioned countless times that giving him that 3 yr/ $65 mil contract is ridiculous and it would destroy our future. The worst type of team is the team that has no real shot at winning but isn't rebuilding either. We've said that tons of times before.

[Rockice_8]

^^

Do you see some of these names being thrown around? Billups, Harington, Andre Miller, are you kidding me we aren't going to win anything with those guys. We can't compete with the Lakers or Heat when we have no capspace, no picks left, and no way to get better.

You really are still in denial that Melo wants to be here. The only thing saving us from looking like complete jackasses in this is that he wants his money. The second he says money isn't his main concern is the second we get put in our place and we look like a joke. You think guys we have now want to play here when everyday all they hear about is how bad we want Melo and we'll trade everyone to get him and make him happy. What kind of message are we sending to our players?

We have a ton of assets (picks and capspace) and need so much more then one guy on the wing to help this team get anywhere near the top. Look at what we want to build and tell me you can sit there and get excited about this. We want to be DEN east, a team that can't get past the second round, with guys like Billups or Miller who have one foot out the door already.

This whole situation stinks of pure desperation where we put everything on the line for a guy who doesn't want to be here and can't get us to where we want to be. Thats a great strategy.

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I say Melo WANTS to come to NJ??/ I never said that. All players have to make decisions that satisfy their most basic desires. He could want to go to Phoenix for all I care but if Phoenix sucks and his desire to win a championship is higher than his desire to play in Phoenix, then he cancels that team out like any logical person would. All I said was this claim that he WANTS to go the Knicks at all costs should be scaled back because he's already says that he wants to play on a team that plays defense. He particularly called out D'Antoni for that. Also, he doesn't want to go to a team that guts its roster just to acquire him. I've never said that Melo wants to come to the Nets. I've had commented at length on how much the Nets want Melo but that's it. Plus, if you're so adamant that Melo isn't coming to the Nets, why are you creating threads and trades about it? I'm not trying to get in a debate or anything but you should read what we're saying and not insinuate other things that haven't been said.

Neither E nor myself said that we want him at all costs. In fact, we've both cautioned countless times that giving him that 3 yr/ $65 mil contract is ridiculous and it would destroy our future. The worst type of team is the team that has no real shot at winning but isn't rebuilding either. We've said that tons of times before.

That wasn't so much directed at you that it was just directed at the fact that this deal fills one hole and creates two more leaving us in mediocrity. Thats why I created this thread to see if we can surround Melo with talent. Plus the fact that E can't seem to get this notion out of his head that the Murphy trade is stopping us from getting Melo when thats simply not the case. Sure DEN might want savings but no team can offer them that so its not like other teams have this wonderful advantage on us. Even if we could offer the savings Melo still wouldn't sign here without the added talent.

I really don't want Melo to be honest, at least not at what we have to give up and how much we have to pay him. I was just speculating on what would happen if it did happen to go through (probably cause there was no other way for him to get his money) and what we could do from there to actually compete for a chip. Next thing you know E comes in and brings up this Murphy trade.

Either way to get Melo, Murphy or no Murphy, we have to give up Favors and multiple picks. I think E has this fantasy notion that we could keep Favors if we offered cap space but I really don't think thats the case.

[NyCeEvO]

The thing that I really hate about our situation is that we all feel like we're a couple moves away from being great, which is true but we underestimate how hard it is to get a couple of big moves done. 90% of the time they don't happen. So while our future can look bright, I think we could be sadly staring at fool's gold.

[Rockice_8]

The thing that I really hate about our situation is that we all feel like we're a couple moves away from being great, which is true but we underestimate how hard it is to get a couple of big moves done. 90% of the time they don't happen. So while our future can look bright, I think we could be sadly staring at fool's gold.

I hear you its just we have a ton of flexibility and picks to make moves. Do we really want to sell it all for Melo? I want to stay with the youth movement, we are going to have a top pick again plus multiple other picks and cap space.

I would rather build a young balanced squad and try to find that one player (Cp3) that hopefully puts us over the top. One player can make the difference when the right pieces are in place and right now we just don't have the pieces in place to add the star yet.

[NyCeEvO]

The thing that I really hate about our situation is that we all feel like we're a couple moves away from being great, which is true but we underestimate how hard it is to get a couple of big moves done. 90% of the time they don't happen. So while our future can look bright, I think we could be sadly staring at fool's gold.

I hear you its just we have a ton of flexibility and picks to make moves. Do we really want to sell it all for Melo? I want to stay with the youth movement, we are going to have a top pick again plus multiple other picks and cap space.

I would rather build a young balanced squad and try to find that one player (Cp3) that hopefully puts us over the top. One player can make the difference when the right pieces are in place and right now we just don't have the pieces in place to add the star yet.

And yet when you try to tell explain to everyone that waiting and patience is the best option, they think you're stupid for not giving up everything to get your one player. But then when the one player is all that you have, you're screwed.

[enetric]

E let me just start by saying I never was behind the Murphy trade. I thought it was just a lateral move.

What I will say though is that I still don't think this is keeping us from landing Melo. HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE. It's so obvious that he wants nothing to do with us. Who cares what DEN wants, the fact of the matter is Melo doesn't want to be here. DEN always wanted Favors with or without Murphy (he's the center piece). What we now have to throw in a few worthless picks that most teams just sell away.

We lose the flexibilty to do what. We have far and away the best package with or without Murphy and we still can't land a star. This trade hasn't done anything to deter us from landing a star cause they don't want to be here.

If anything you should be complaining about the Outlaw signing that is going to actually have some lingering effects on our future, not some stupid trade that was supposed land us a one year rental for our young PF to learn behind.

YOu really just dont get it. Its iritating at this point. You either have a reading comprehension issue...or you are just stubborn.

Having Troy...means we gave up the asset Denver wants most. Denver is holding up this thing before it even gets to Melo. THIS ISNT MELO HOLDING IT UP!!!

But if you give up key pieces that would help Melo when he gets here...why would he be interested?????

if you dont have the cash to save Denver...then you you have to give up even more to compensate them...or help them get the cash savings elsewhere!!!

As for Outlaw...he was a bad move. But at the time...he was the last piece in to get us to legue minimum. Troy however...ATE UP the pure tradeable cap space and took away one tradeable prospect.

Troy made no sense.

And I am sorry...but you have defended this so much...you dont get to say you werent in favor of it. You are backpeddling. at this point. You know you were wrong and you are trying to save face now. Just man up. Say you were f-ing wrong and be done with it.

[enetric]

^^

Do you see some of these names being thrown around? Billups, Harington, Andre Miller, are you kidding me we aren't going to win anything with those guys. We can't compete with the Lakers or Heat when we have no capspace, no picks left, and no way to get better.

You really are still in denial that Melo wants to be here. The only thing saving us from looking like complete jackasses in this is that he wants his money. The second he says money isn't his main concern is the second we get put in our place and we look like a joke. You think guys we have now want to play here when everyday all they hear about is how bad we want Melo and we'll trade everyone to get him and make him happy. What kind of message are we sending to our players?

We have a ton of assets (picks and capspace) and need so much more then one guy on the wing to help this team get anywhere near the top. Look at what we want to build and tell me you can sit there and get excited about this. We want to be DEN east, a team that can't get past the second round, with guys like Billups or Miller who have one foot out the door already.

This whole situation stinks of pure desperation where we put everything on the line for a guy who doesn't want to be here and can't get us to where we want to be. Thats a great strategy.

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I say Melo WANTS to come to NJ??/ I never said that. All players have to make decisions that satisfy their most basic desires. He could want to go to Phoenix for all I care but if Phoenix sucks and his desire to win a championship is higher than his desire to play in Phoenix, then he cancels that team out like any logical person would. All I said was this claim that he WANTS to go the Knicks at all costs should be scaled back because he's already says that he wants to play on a team that plays defense. He particularly called out D'Antoni for that. Also, he doesn't want to go to a team that guts its roster just to acquire him. I've never said that Melo wants to come to the Nets. I've had commented at length on how much the Nets want Melo but that's it. Plus, if you're so adamant that Melo isn't coming to the Nets, why are you creating threads and trades about it? I'm not trying to get in a debate or anything but you should read what we're saying and not insinuate other things that haven't been said.

Neither E nor myself said that we want him at all costs. In fact, we've both cautioned countless times that giving him that 3 yr/ $65 mil contract is ridiculous and it would destroy our future. The worst type of team is the team that has no real shot at winning but isn't rebuilding either. We've said that tons of times before.

That wasn't so much directed at you that it was just directed at the fact that this deal fills one hole and creates two more leaving us in mediocrity. Thats why I created this thread to see if we can surround Melo with talent. Plus the fact that E can't seem to get this notion out of his head that the Murphy trade is stopping us from getting Melo when thats simply not the case. Sure DEN might want savings but no team can offer them that so its not like other teams have this wonderful advantage on us. Even if we could offer the savings Melo still wouldn't sign here without the added talent.

I really don't want Melo to be honest, at least not at what we have to give up and how much we have to pay him. I was just speculating on what would happen if it did happen to go through (probably cause there was no other way for him to get his money) and what we could do from there to actually compete for a chip. Next thing you know E comes in and brings up this Murphy trade.

Either way to get Melo, Murphy or no Murphy, we have to give up Favors and multiple picks. I think E has this fantasy notion that we could keep Favors if we offered cap space but I really don't think thats the case.

If we had the cap spaced to trade them...we would have kept one of Favors or Devin. As that they DONT WANT DEVIN but WANT us to send him to the Cavs the get there TE...doesnt that spell it out for you? And let me ask...are we more attractive to Melo WITH Devin or less?

He may not want to come here...but we sure as hell are making it worse for us. Worst case scenario...we use Devin to buy the cap space that we wasted on Troy...to get Melo...and at this point he says YES!!! That is even worse!

Because now we will be gutted, overpay Melo...add new CBA...lower cap...and you the wonderful world of medicority.

My notion isnt an illusion...is as plain as the stubborn nose on your face. Denver WANTS TO SAVE THE MONEY...AND THEY WANT THE PROSPECTS. Since we gave away the money....they expect us to buy it back for them. We did that to ourselves here. So please get it already....I am tired of having to explain this to you.

[enetric]

The thing that I really hate about our situation is that we all feel like we're a couple moves away from being great, which is true but we underestimate how hard it is to get a couple of big moves done. 90% of the time they don't happen. So while our future can look bright, I think we could be sadly staring at fool's gold.

I hear you its just we have a ton of flexibility and picks to make moves. Do we really want to sell it all for Melo? I want to stay with the youth movement, we are going to have a top pick again plus multiple other picks and cap space.

I would rather build a young balanced squad and try to find that one player (Cp3) that hopefully puts us over the top. One player can make the difference when the right pieces are in place and right now we just don't have the pieces in place to add the star yet.

I am sorry but I call BS on you. If you were in sync with me at wanting the young squad...then how do you defend the Troy move???? It never fit at all!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you are all over the place man.

[Rockice_8]

The thing that I really hate about our situation is that we all feel like we're a couple moves away from being great, which is true but we underestimate how hard it is to get a couple of big moves done. 90% of the time they don't happen. So while our future can look bright, I think we could be sadly staring at fool's gold.

I hear you its just we have a ton of flexibility and picks to make moves. Do we really want to sell it all for Melo? I want to stay with the youth movement, we are going to have a top pick again plus multiple other picks and cap space.

I would rather build a young balanced squad and try to find that one player (Cp3) that hopefully puts us over the top. One player can make the difference when the right pieces are in place and right now we just don't have the pieces in place to add the star yet.

I am sorry but I call BS on you. If you were in sync with me at wanting the young squad...then how do you defend the Troy move???? It never fit at all!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you are all over the place man.

I never said I was for the Murphy trade and I'm not defending it. I'm just saying calm down, your making it out like Murphy has just crippled the franchise and the whole front office should be fired. Would I have pulled that trade off, NO. I've stated multiple times where I'd like this franchise to go and it's not in the direction of one of the biggest overpriced douches in the league (Melo). If we have to suck again next year too then so be it, as long as we set the pieces in place to contend not pretend.

You're making it out like we signed him to a 5 year 35 mill dollar contract. . . Oh wait. Look if you want to rant and rave I'll be there right behind you against the bad moves we have made but focus your energy in the right area, Outlaw. That right there is something that could effect us into the future, not Murphy.

[enetric]

You are doing a back peddle. My ranting is fueld by guys like you. A lot to say but without a damn clue and now wanting to make it sound like you were saying something else.

I have said what needs to be said about Outaw. it was overpaying no question. But you arent distracting anyone by trying to change the focus. All you are doing is losing respect and credibility. You had all the angles to defend the Troy trade on day one...and you have made light of the deal from day two on as it became more clear that you were totally wrong. It really was a far bigger screw up to our flexibility than Outlaw...because it came AFTER we were brought to league minimum.

This has been and always be a cap argument over a girlie BS cry baby ignorant fan reaction like...

"oh, but we really need a veteran presence to hold Favors hand and Brook will be damaged mentally if he has to go through another bad season, and Troy will tuck all the young players into bed at night and read them a stroy...and other NBA players will be SOOOOO impressed that we spent money on Troy and NOW they will all come here because of this and we will live happily ever after."

When reading that quote...which in several variations came out of your mouth...and the mouth of a few others....please read it aloud in a GIRLIE VOICE.

Because THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I HEAR IT WHEN YOU CRY ABOUT THAT CRAP.

Bunch of sissies....

[Rockice_8]

You are doing a back peddle. My ranting is fueld by guys like you. A lot to say but without a damn clue and now wanting to make it sound like you were saying something else.

I have said what needs to be said about Outaw. it was overpaying no question. But you arent distracting anyone by trying to change the focus. All you are doing is losing respect and credibility. You had all the angles to defend the Troy trade on day one...and you have made light of the deal from day two on as it became more clear that you were totally wrong. It really was a far bigger screw up to our flexibility than Outlaw...because it came AFTER we were brought to league minimum.

This has been and always be a cap argument over a girlie BS cry baby ignorant fan reaction like...

"oh, but we really need a veteran presence to hold Favors hand and Brook will be damaged mentally if he has to go through another bad season, and Troy will tuck all the young players into bed at night and read them a stroy...and other NBA players will be SOOOOO impressed that we spent money on Troy and NOW they will all come here because of this and we will live happily ever after."

When reading that quote...which in several variations came out of your mouth...and the mouth of a few others....please read it aloud in a GIRLIE VOICE.

Because THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I HEAR IT WHEN YOU CRY ABOUT THAT CRAP.

Bunch of sissies....

Oh get over yourself already, I sound like a sissy, really? You haven't posted anything lately except your tears about this trade. You were somewhat right about something and I have to tell the whole world about it. You handcuffed my thread with this nonsense. Stop putting words in my mouth about defending the trade from day one because it never happened. I never defended the Murphy trade it was a lateral move in my opinion, we had too many guards and no bigs. Petro is garbage and Murphy was needed, not to baby Favors but cause we needed size.

And for the millionth time this is not keeping us from landing Melo. Guess what, if we don't have Murphy and your wish came true we still don't have Melo. We would just have an extra 11 mill in cap space and nothing to use it on. The extra money isn't making Melo change his mind about us it's just to make DEN happier. He knows we suck he's not blind, and does not want to sign here. The fact is that Favors, Murphy, and two picks is the best offer DEN is going to see. Except for the fact that they know we are desperate for a star and they are trying to milk us for everything we got. They want cap space and we are just going to bend over and and let them abuse our ass cause they we know are desperate.

I'm done on this topic, no more posts from me about this, I've said all I have to say.

[vincecarter4pres]

And for the millionth time this is not keeping us from landing Melo. Guess what, if we don't have Murphy and your wish came true we still don't have Melo. We would just have an extra 11 mill in cap space and nothing to use it on. The extra money isn't making Melo change his mind about us it's just to make DEN happier. He knows we suck he's not blind, and does not want to sign here. The fact is that Favors, Murphy, and two picks is the best offer DEN is going to see. Except for the fact that they know we are desperate for a star and they are trying to milk us for everything we got. They want cap space and we are just going to bend over and and let them abuse our ass cause they we know are desperate.

I'm not going to get into this back and forth between you and E on either side of the argument and I'm not looking to drag this out forever, but these are the things you're not getting.

If we had that 11 million in cap space and nothing to use it on, we would likely get rewarded by using it to help other teams facilitate deals they can't pull off.

See the reports on Cleveland wanting a pick or two to absorb Harris?

That would be us, if we lost out on Melo, which we likely will.

We would be the ones getting a nice young player on a decent contract, with at least one solid 1st round pick as incentive!

Even if it didn't involve a Melo deal, we could be the ones pulling an OKC from a few years ago, absorbing a simple expiring albatross and receiving 2 1st round picks to help a contender get out of the lux tax, receiving $3 million in the deal and buying said player out for a discount.

And before you say who cares about the $3 million, I don't, I just understand the business side of the NBA and what motivates greedy and intelligent owners and GM's.

And finally, yes that cap space could have easily helped get Melo. I doubt it, but maybe Melo is already warmed to the idea of coming here, but you know what Denver wants besides their absurd demands? Luxury tax savings. We're now trying to find other teams to provide this to them. It likely could have saved us from even offering as many draft picks and may have easily provided Denver with the incentive to include a player like Nene coming back to us in the deal in place of Al Harrington, matter of fact giving us the leverage in that type of discussion during haggling.

Just saying.

[enetric]

You are doing a back peddle. My ranting is fueld by guys like you. A lot to say but without a damn clue and now wanting to make it sound like you were saying something else.

I have said what needs to be said about Outaw. it was overpaying no question. But you arent distracting anyone by trying to change the focus. All you are doing is losing respect and credibility. You had all the angles to defend the Troy trade on day one...and you have made light of the deal from day two on as it became more clear that you were totally wrong. It really was a far bigger screw up to our flexibility than Outlaw...because it came AFTER we were brought to league minimum.

This has been and always be a cap argument over a girlie BS cry baby ignorant fan reaction like...

"oh, but we really need a veteran presence to hold Favors hand and Brook will be damaged mentally if he has to go through another bad season, and Troy will tuck all the young players into bed at night and read them a stroy...and other NBA players will be SOOOOO impressed that we spent money on Troy and NOW they will all come here because of this and we will live happily ever after."

When reading that quote...which in several variations came out of your mouth...and the mouth of a few others....please read it aloud in a GIRLIE VOICE.

Because THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I HEAR IT WHEN YOU CRY ABOUT THAT CRAP.

Bunch of sissies....

Oh get over yourself already, I sound like a sissy, really? You haven't posted anything lately except your tears about this trade. You were somewhat right about something and I have to tell the whole world about it. You handcuffed my thread with this nonsense. Stop putting words in my mouth about defending the trade from day one because it never happened. I never defended the Murphy trade it was a lateral move in my opinion, we had too many guards and no bigs. Petro is garbage and Murphy was needed, not to baby Favors but cause we needed size.

And for the millionth time this is not keeping us from landing Melo. Guess what, if we don't have Murphy and your wish came true we still don't have Melo. We would just have an extra 11 mill in cap space and nothing to use it on. The extra money isn't making Melo change his mind about us it's just to make DEN happier. He knows we suck he's not blind, and does not want to sign here. The fact is that Favors, Murphy, and two picks is the best offer DEN is going to see. Except for the fact that they know we are desperate for a star and they are trying to milk us for everything we got. They want cap space and we are just going to bend over and and let them abuse our ass cause they we know are desperate.

I'm done on this topic, no more posts from me about this, I've said all I have to say.

You have yet to say anything. Honestly...you are full of crap. I have no respect for a poster who cant man up.

As for your thread? What have I handcuffed? You have contributed squat. Who exactly is replying?

Please stop acting like you know what you are talking about. You dont...and its become obvious. I came after you on this because I think you deserved it.

[enetric]

You are doing a back peddle. My ranting is fueld by guys like you. A lot to say but without a damn clue and now wanting to make it sound like you were saying something else.

I have said what needs to be said about Outaw. it was overpaying no question. But you arent distracting anyone by trying to change the focus. All you are doing is losing respect and credibility. You had all the angles to defend the Troy trade on day one...and you have made light of the deal from day two on as it became more clear that you were totally wrong. It really was a far bigger screw up to our flexibility than Outlaw...because it came AFTER we were brought to league minimum.

This has been and always be a cap argument over a girlie BS cry baby ignorant fan reaction like...

"oh, but we really need a veteran presence to hold Favors hand and Brook will be damaged mentally if he has to go through another bad season, and Troy will tuck all the young players into bed at night and read them a stroy...and other NBA players will be SOOOOO impressed that we spent money on Troy and NOW they will all come here because of this and we will live happily ever after."

When reading that quote...which in several variations came out of your mouth...and the mouth of a few others....please read it aloud in a GIRLIE VOICE.

Because THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I HEAR IT WHEN YOU CRY ABOUT THAT CRAP.

Bunch of sissies....

Oh get over yourself already, I sound like a sissy, really? You haven't posted anything lately except your tears about this trade. You were somewhat right about something and I have to tell the whole world about it. You handcuffed my thread with this nonsense. Stop putting words in my mouth about defending the trade from day one because it never happened. I never defended the Murphy trade it was a lateral move in my opinion, we had too many guards and no bigs. Petro is garbage and Murphy was needed, not to baby Favors but cause we needed size.

And for the millionth time this is not keeping us from landing Melo. Guess what, if we don't have Murphy and your wish came true we still don't have Melo. We would just have an extra 11 mill in cap space and nothing to use it on. The extra money isn't making Melo change his mind about us it's just to make DEN happier. He knows we suck he's not blind, and does not want to sign here. The fact is that Favors, Murphy, and two picks is the best offer DEN is going to see. Except for the fact that they know we are desperate for a star and they are trying to milk us for everything we got. They want cap space and we are just going to bend over and and let them abuse our ass cause they we know are desperate.

I'm done on this topic, no more posts from me about this, I've said all I have to say.

You have yet to say anything. Please stop acting like you know what you are talking about. You dont...and its become obvious. I came after you on this because I think you deserved it. Telling me in posts what I DONT GET? PLEASE!!!! I have no respect for a poster who cant man up to their nonsense. Be arogant...be RIGHT. Or at least admit it when you are wrong.

As for your thread? What have I handcuffed? I replied to it...and not too many others becasue there wasnt much to reply to.