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Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour)

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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#81 » by Fenris-77 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:34 pm

Alfred wrote:This is a pretty gross deal if true, and pretty awesome for Atlanta.

Dorsey is probably better than Pachulia, and Calderon is better than Bibby when he's healthy. Bibby is honestly not that great, and if we're trading Calderon for these two guys just to chisel off 4 million off the last year of his deal, I'll be pretty upset. I hope we get compensated.

I don't think it's quite that bad. I would have to think that Zaza has more trade value around the league than Dorsey does at any rate - he's a solid reserve big and guys like that are always in a certain amount of demand. If he comes over and plays well (read more minutes) that value only goes up.

I agree about Jose and Bibby's relative skill sets, but that's nbot the whole story. Bibby is going to better at implementing the up tempo aspects of the Raps offense, and he's also going to be easier to bring off the bench in favour of Bayless (a move which would be an issue for our over-pround Spanish friend). So there are some preipheral benefits, even if the straight up skill set comparison doesn't look great for the Raps.

If you think that's me spiltting hairs a little you'd be correct. :lol: I'm still underwhelmed by the deal as it's described here, but it's not completely without merit.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#82 » by Wo1verine » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:34 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Lol, when did Zaza decline so much?

I must have missed that.

you know you're really bad when you got Josh freaking Powell taking minutes away from you :lol:
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#83 » by Wo1verine » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:35 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Lol, when did Zaza decline so much?

I must have missed that.

you know you're really bad when you got Josh freaking Powell taking minutes away from you :lol:
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#84 » by Shaazzam » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:36 pm

I wonder if they have any defence against the clap in ATL?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#85 » by Indeed » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:37 pm

Maybe (just my prediction):
Calderon + Kleiza (total 15m)
for
Bibby + M Williams + Zaza + protected 1st (total 17m)
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#86 » by Alfred » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:38 pm

I actually think that Pachulia has negative value TBH. He's sub-mediocre and signed to a pretty big contract. If Calderon got healthy, he would be a great fit getting the ball to their sizable stable of finishers in Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson.

Mike Bibby is a shadow of his former self. He does one thing well now and that's shooting threes.

The Raptors would save -- count it, 4 million dollars, and that's in 2 years.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#87 » by witnessraps » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:38 pm

cosmostein wrote:
witnessraps wrote:Run with Mike Bibby and Peja Stojakovic, sacramento of old:)

im on board.


If we could only get back Turk...


If it was up to me we would have never traded him. Rather give him ball.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#88 » by Fenris-77 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:38 pm

RaptorsInsider1 wrote: you know you're really bad when you got Josh freaking Powell taking minutes away from you :lol:

I think you're underselling his skill set based on a lack of fit with the current Hawks system, rather than his actual skill level. Zaza isn't a bad player at all, and as I mentioned above, he's does do a couple of things quite well. Even this season he's played pretty well when he's gotten minutes. I don't know that he's great fit for the Raps mind you, but I'm always in favour of a little balance when it comes to player evaluation.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#89 » by HEDOBALL » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:41 pm

witnessraps wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
witnessraps wrote:Run with Mike Bibby and Peja Stojakovic, sacramento of old:)

im on board.


If we could only get back Turk...


If it was up to me we would have never traded him. Rather give him ball.



Ball.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#90 » by chimpston17 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:41 pm

Shaazzam wrote:I wonder if they have any defence against the clap in ATL?

theyd be partying in the streets of atlanta [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-wrYqX_8Sc&feature=related[/youtube]
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#91 » by Reignman » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:42 pm

Just skimmed the Hawks board and it looks like they really want a 5. Doesn't do much for my impressions of Zaza.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#92 » by goinrogue » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:42 pm

Alfred wrote:I actually think that Pachulia has negative value TBH. He's sub-mediocre and signed to a pretty big contract. If Calderon got healthy, he would be a great fit getting the ball to their sizable stable of finishers in Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson.

Mike Bibby is a shadow of his former self. He does one thing well now and that's shooting threes.

The Raptors would save -- count it, 4 million dollars, and that's in 2 years.


Bibby would come off the bench, with Bayless getting starter's minutes. I honestly think if this rumour is true, it's a trade more about handing the keys over to Bayless and not just a salary dump. I think BC is probably aware that Bibby is not an upgrade over Calderon, but that's not what this trade is about, imo.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#93 » by Raptor_Insider » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:43 pm

Alfred wrote:This is a pretty gross deal if true, and pretty awesome for Atlanta.

Dorsey is probably better than Pachulia, and Calderon is better than Bibby when he's healthy. Bibby is honestly not that great, and if we're trading Calderon for these two guys just to chisel off 4 million off the last year of his deal, I'll be pretty upset. I hope we get compensated.


^^this
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#94 » by Consequence » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:44 pm

If Zaza is going from ATL, I'd want to try to flip him to the Lakers for one of their expirings. they could use more big man depth.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#95 » by Alfred » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:44 pm

Indeed wrote:Maybe (just my prediction):
Calderon + Kleiza (total 15m)
for
Bibby + M Williams + Zaza + protected 1st (total 17m)


That's actually a bit more palatable, but only because our wing situation is so terrible, and I think Marvin Williams could be better than he is currently. Also Kleiza is garbage.

That IS a long time to commit to Marvin though, especially if he doesn't pan out. I also don't like that it eats 3 million dollars into our capspace, but we probably weren't going to be players in free agency anyway.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#96 » by Reignman » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:46 pm

goinrogue wrote:
Alfred wrote:I actually think that Pachulia has negative value TBH. He's sub-mediocre and signed to a pretty big contract. If Calderon got healthy, he would be a great fit getting the ball to their sizable stable of finishers in Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson.

Mike Bibby is a shadow of his former self. He does one thing well now and that's shooting threes.

The Raptors would save -- count it, 4 million dollars, and that's in 2 years.


Bibby would come off the bench, with Bayless getting starter's minutes. I honestly think if this rumour is true, it's a trade more about handing the keys over to Bayless and not just a salary dump. I think BC is probably aware that Bibby is not an upgrade over Calderon, but that's not what this trade is about, imo.


If this is only about getting Bayless some mins then I think we should be able to do better. As Alfred said, we're only saving $4 mil in the 2012/13 season while taking on more salary this year and next.

If this deal comes to fruition I'm assuming there will be some sweetner like a pick.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#97 » by Alfred » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:46 pm

Reignman wrote:Just skimmed the Hawks board and it looks like they really want a 5. Doesn't do much for my impressions of Zaza.


Zaza Pachulia, other than his hilarious quotes and headbutting Kevin Garnett is probably the least exciting player in the league. He's like bad Rasho.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#98 » by Volcano » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:49 pm

first thing that came to mind was Jose + Dorsey for Bibby + Zaza..hopefully we get a pick back if that happens as well
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#99 » by Wo1verine » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:52 pm

I still wouldn't do a Bibby/Zaza trade even if a pick was involved, but that's just me.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#100 » by Fenris-77 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:53 pm

Alfred wrote:Zaza Pachulia, other than his hilarious quotes and headbutting Kevin Garnett is probably the least exciting player in the league. He's like bad Rasho.

He rebounds about as well as Amir and he can get to the line, plus he's decently efficient on both ends of the court. You might not be excited about him (I know I'm not) but he does have some skills.

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