Official Thread - Wizards at Sixers (1/5/11)

[Zonkerbl]

missed the game... noticed McGee didn't get many minutes, was he on the floor during the big 4th quarter collapse?

[DaRealHibachi]

missed the game... noticed McGee didn't get many minutes, was he on the floor during the big 4th quarter collapse?

Nope, Dray got most of his minutes in the 4th...

[Zonkerbl]

I don't get it, doesn't McGee have the 2nd highest PER on the team? If you haven't won a road game in 17 tries doesn't it make sense to put your best players on the court in crunch time? Genuinely confused here. Did he have Heinrich, Wall, and Young on the court at the same time?

Wall
Heinrich
N1
Rashard
Blatche

is just not as efficient a lineup as
Wall
N1
Rashard
Blatche
McGee.

McGee + Blatche = long + shotblocking = guards are afraid to penetrate = perimeter defenders can stay closer to guards to prevent jump shots.

McGee goes out and, surprise surprise! The guards start raining down threes. So the lesson we learn here is, making a point to McGee by pulling him is going to cost us wins. If that's ok with you go for it.

There is no parallel universe where subbing out Heinrich for McGee nets you more offense for the complete lack of defense that results. Mismatch at every front court position, what are you thinking?

[closg00]

I don't get it, doesn't McGee have the 2nd highest PER on the team? If you haven't won a road game in 17 tries doesn't it make sense to put your best players on the court in crunch time? Genuinely confused here. Did he have Heinrich, Wall, and Young on the court at the same time?

Wall
Heinrich
N1
Rashard
Blatche

is just not as efficient a lineup as
Wall
N1
Rashard
Blatche
McGee.

McGee + Blatche = long + shotblocking = guards are afraid to penetrate = perimeter defenders can stay closer to guards to prevent jump shots.

McGee goes out and, surprise surprise! The guards start raining down threes. So the lesson we learn here is, making a point to McGee by pulling him is going to cost us wins. If that's ok with you go for it.

There is no parallel universe where subbing out Heinrich for McGee nets you more offense for the complete lack of defense that results. Mismatch at every front court position, what are you thinking?

Flip loves banging his head against the Wall every 4th quarter, but he'll do the same in the next game.

[MJG]

My advice guys: Don't watch every game. I know, crappy advice when this is probably all of our favorite sports, but it just isn't healthy to watch this squad. It's still boggling my mind and I'm replaying in my head how we could of won or who's to blame and it sucks. However, no one (including myself) will probably take this advice.

+! on the advice WW54. It's not healthy to watch every game at all. I didn't watch todays game and I haven't seen a whole lot of our games for a while now.

I'm more than with you guys on this. At this point, I'm only watching games if either a) I'm bored and cannot think of anything else to do, or b) it's via the DVR, because I read online after the fact that something really worthwhile happened. Time is a limited and valuable resource, and basketball games are a pretty big time sink at 150 minutes apiece, 3-4 days per week, 6-7 months per year. We're talking roughly 12,000 minutes over the course of an 82 game season. For something that, on average, will leave you more frustrated than entertained, as is the case with the Wizards this year, I'm more than happy to pass, and get the information I need from the box scores and the threads on this board while watching spot games here or there. My 150 minutes between 7-9:30 last night were spent making dinner, playing Super Meat Boy, setting some plans for the weekend in motion, reading some threads here, reading some threads on TIGForums, and watching the new Modern Family. Anything substantial? No, but I was generally enjoying myself the entire time, which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have been the case watching the game.

[WizarDynasty]

the biggest problem we are facing on defense is McGee's footspeed. If he is going to play soft like he does and not push other bigs back when they push against him, he better have some of the quickest feet moving sideways in the league to make up for his lack of aggression when getting bullied.

If we had anything resembling a competent coaching staff, McGee would get fined every week if he doesn't show slight improvements in footspeed defending on the pick and roll.

This team is not forcing its bigs to get improve their footspeed defending guards on the pick and roll and that's all the fault of coaching and management.

The whole point of getting mcgee as a project big was that we were going to improve his weak spots. When he came into the league, he had one of the slowest lateral footspeeds in the draft. After three years, we should have greatly improved his footspeed so that he became an asset for us. Coaching and management failed to improve our devalued asset and we are paying the price.

It seems to be a common thread with most of wiz bigs, there isn't a focus to constantly improve their lateral footspeed by coaching on management. The only way McGee gets away with not being muscular is that he has to have above average quickness on defense. Coaching staff have not forced this to happen. Secondly on picks, all other bigs shift their center of mass slightly into our smalls and give their bigs a significant advantage on the pick and roll. our coaching staff has done nothing to even the playing field. Other teams will chuck the pick setter so that he is off balance before delivering a blow to their smalls.
Finally, All these problems would be solved if management forced mcgee to get his bench press up to at least 250. Obviously they have not done this either.

It appears that management and coaching don't force measurable improvement each week that they force our players to adhere too. McGee would actually have some heart out there if he could actually bench press like a man.
If he can't bench press, he should have above average lateral speed. its all coaching and management fault.

Finally, again, coaches aren't fining players for not knowing positions outside of their own and they fail to force mcgee to improve his basketball iq by making pre-determined passes from the free throw line.

[dlts20]

missed the game... noticed McGee didn't get many minutes, was he on the floor during the big 4th quarter collapse?

Nope, Dray got most of his minutes in the 4th...

I would moreso say that Hinrich got them

[Ed Wood]

I assume steps 2-5 of your plan, WD, go a little like this:

1. (just to reiterate) Fine JaVale constantly for bad help defense.
2. Public spankings for bad shot selection.
3. Purple nurples for every turnover.
4. Ask him why he can't be like his nice brother Andray in front of his friends.
5. Seeing how far a carrot can go up our nose before we just... die.

Edit: Also, curls for girls son, don't you even know how to buy tickets to the gun show?

[hands11]

Look at the FT line numbers. Even with Wall penetrating like crazy, we still dont get nothing from anyone else but jumpers. 33% is players, 66% is the system. Then our 1 guy who may could do something about it besides Wall is Howard and he will probably be gimpy the rest of the year. If I see numbers at the FT line like I do tonight, I usually say we were jobbed by the refs but the truth is that all we do is shoot J's. The Pistons fans said the exact same thing about Flip's system. Its just a jump shooting system and thats why he sucks in the playoffs.

With that being said, guys like NY & Dray have way too much skill to never get to the FT line. Thats just playing soft. Even when NY is playing great, he still settles too much. He's one of the most athletic guys in the leauge and has the complete package Offensively. There is no way in hell that he shouldnt get to the line alot. With that being said, I do thnk Flip's system does hold him back some. Its predicated alot on catch & shoot. When NY drove some last week, Flip got mad and said that "when he was playing great, he did more of catch & shoot but now he wants to handle & drive". Whats wrong with that?

Then when guys do drive, its like the whole defense can see it coming so we get charges or still have to pull up for the J or just swing it again. Then you have a guy like Dray with very good post skills but is never on the low block. Which is it more of? Is it more of Dray coasting on the perimiter or is he right about how most of the plays have him setting screens outside so he cant get on the block. Probably both are right which means we lose either way. Im tired of that same crap

Th FT numbers look this way to often.

Slashers and stronger physical bigs and better D is what we are missing.

Everyone needs to do a better job. Players and coaching. But I guess this is what you get when you are a totally redesigned team with players from all over and a rookie who is starting at PG.

But in perceptive, there are lots of starters in this league that have holes in their game. Question for me is, are those holes a key part needed to play the position they play. Another rule/guideline for me is that starters should always be able to defend first. Specially your center and PF.

They are clearly tanking/investing in the future because they are starting Wall over Kirk and starting McGee even though he is another summer away from adding the muscle/learning the skills needed to clear space at center so he can play better D.

But even if your tanking/investing in the future, at what point do you play more Seraphin at center. He is clearly stronger, meaner than McGee and set way better picks. McGee would make an awesome back up. And since those are the things this team is so sorely missing and center is a key spot for that I would make the switch. They groomed Nick very nicely by coming off the bench until they transitioned him to starter.

Now if your not tanking/straight up investing the future, I would start Kirk. Wall has defensive holes, lacks knowledge and has been injured. He should have a cap at 30-32 minutes a game for now. Same with Dray.

That is why I suggested those line ups.

Kirk(30)/Wall(18)
Nick(38)/Martin(10)
Lewis(38)/AT(10)/Howard(injured)
Booker(20)/Dray/Yi
Seraphin(20)/McGee/Armstrong

That would also be tanking/investing in the future, only the team would have more power and two balanced line ups.

I know McGee has an amazing PER and I really like the kids upside but he isn't physical enough to be our center right now, specially next to our PFs and SFs.

Given this current roster, health, who I think can reliably play their positions, development, I would go with the line ups above. There is no need to rush Wall right now and there aren't enough minutes for him and Kirk to play starter minutes. Kirk doesn't need to be playing SG, we have Nick and Martin. I would roll with Kirk for now while Wall get healthy and learns. In the future, you turn it to Wall and ditch Kirk. Kirk 30 minutes. Wall 18. This would also let Dray heal up and get his head together and fight for the spot again. And McGee just might figure out his primary job on the team.

I would be more than happy to watch the above line us and minutes.

[Da HomeTeam]

I don't feel like diggin thru all these pages....I just wanna know who the hell told Kirk that he was DWade?

Can we start an amazingly sucky Kirk thread if there isn't one. My goodness.

[The Consiglieri]

Another fourth quarter collapse. Never seem a team consistently finish weak like this team, except for the game they finished strong when Saunders was away.

It's all good with me, we need to crater hard to keep up with Sac and Cleveland so we don't end up screwed in June. One could say this creates a losing culture, but this team has been arse for 30 years, so the losing culture is already well entrenched, if it's going to be eradicated, it will take multiple canings, and sweeping out the vets we don't want with the rebuild (Blatche this year, Hinrich next year I suppose? at minimum) in deals. People get so pissed at these losses, I suppose I get it to some extent as we need to get young players developed, and it's no certainty that a crazy biased format of making them earn it could get it done is getting them developed, but regardless we need losses just as bad for talent infusions come June. You just saw what that idiotic Jville win did to the redskins draft slotting in a year they were desperate for a QB did right? We fell from sixth, and our pick virtually of any of the QB's, to 10th, and our pick of the leftovers, if that, w'Luck deciding to stay for another year.

Gotta suck. There is so much angst over this, I don't really get it. The more we suck, the better chance we have of having a guaranteed top 4 or 5 pick at worst, which is essential. Any heroic wins could totally screw us.

My only fear of this, admittedly a real fear, is that Wall gets tired of the losing and wants to bail the first chance he gets, but in truth, there is little we can do, other than land a genuine difference making stud in the draft to change that dynamic. No free agent worth a ---- is coming here till we start winning, so we have to find them in the draft.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hands, I like your lineup and your thoughts on the best lineup. Booker and Seraphin in the frontcourt, Kirk and Nick in the backcourt. Radical idea of bringing McGee and Blatche off the bench would not be popular with them, but it makes great sense. Not starting Wall but playing him to run against second units makes sense, too.

Look at the FT line numbers. Even with Wall penetrating like crazy, we still dont get nothing from anyone else but jumpers. 33% is players, 66% is the system. Then our 1 guy who may could do something about it besides Wall is Howard and he will probably be gimpy the rest of the year. If I see numbers at the FT line like I do tonight, I usually say we were jobbed by the refs but the truth is that all we do is shoot J's. The Pistons fans said the exact same thing about Flip's system. Its just a jump shooting system and thats why he sucks in the playoffs.

With that being said, guys like NY & Dray have way too much skill to never get to the FT line. Thats just playing soft. Even when NY is playing great, he still settles too much. He's one of the most athletic guys in the leauge and has the complete package Offensively. There is no way in hell that he shouldnt get to the line alot. With that being said, I do thnk Flip's system does hold him back some. Its predicated alot on catch & shoot. When NY drove some last week, Flip got mad and said that "when he was playing great, he did more of catch & shoot but now he wants to handle & drive". Whats wrong with that?

Then when guys do drive, its like the whole defense can see it coming so we get charges or still have to pull up for the J or just swing it again. Then you have a guy like Dray with very good post skills but is never on the low block. Which is it more of? Is it more of Dray coasting on the perimiter or is he right about how most of the plays have him setting screens outside so he cant get on the block. Probably both are right which means we lose either way. Im tired of that same crap

Th FT numbers look this way to often.

Slashers and stronger physical bigs and better D is what we are missing.

Everyone needs to do a better job. Players and coaching. But I guess this is what you get when you are a totally redesigned team with players from all over and a rookie who is starting at PG.

But in perceptive, there are lots of starters in this league that have holes in their game. Question for me is, are those holes a key part needed to play the position they play. Another rule/guideline for me is that starters should always be able to defend first. Specially your center and PF.

They are clearly tanking/investing in the future because they are starting Wall over Kirk and starting McGee even though he is another summer away from adding the muscle/learning the skills needed to clear space at center so he can play better D.

But even if your tanking/investing in the future, at what point do you play more Seraphin at center. He is clearly stronger, meaner than McGee and set way better picks. McGee would make an awesome back up. And since those are the things this team is so sorely missing and center is a key spot for that I would make the switch. They groomed Nick very nicely by coming off the bench until they transitioned him to starter.

Now if your not tanking/straight up investing the future, I would start Kirk. Wall has defensive holes, lacks knowledge and has been injured. He should have a cap at 30-32 minutes a game for now. Same with Dray.

That is why I suggested those line ups.

Kirk(30)/Wall(18)
Nick(38)/Martin(10)
Lewis(38)/AT(10)/Howard(injured)
Booker(20)/Dray/Yi
Seraphin(20)/McGee/Armstrong

That would also be tanking/investing in the future, only the team would have more power and two balanced line ups.

I know McGee has an amazing PER and I really like the kids upside but he isn't physical enough to be our center right now, specially next to our PFs and SFs.

Given this current roster, health, who I think can reliably play their positions, development, I would go with the line ups above. There is no need to rush Wall right now and there aren't enough minutes for him and Kirk to play starter minutes. Kirk doesn't need to be playing SG, we have Nick and Martin. I would roll with Kirk for now while Wall get healthy and learns. In the future, you turn it to Wall and ditch Kirk. Kirk 30 minutes. Wall 18. This would also let Dray heal up and get his head together and fight for the spot again. And McGee just might figure out his primary job on the team.

I would be more than happy to watch the above line us and minutes.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Consiglieri, I think great players will be available mid-lottery to high second round. I think tanking hurts morale with a coach like Flip who only has Blatche, Hinrich, and Wall's backs. Nick balled his way to big minutes. With this staff players will be blamed and fans who favor coaching will join the blame game. I don't like losing because failing repeatedly without improving is toxic. I see failing the same way with favorite playing too much, better players not playing enough, and sone good players not playing at all.

I think changing this team's thirty-year losing mentality is going to be a process. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Inch your way forward but do press on. Don't fester in the same mess.

I hope to see changes and wins. If Paul Silas can take a dead team the Wizards beat and have that team win three of five and one on the road with injured and far less talented players than Saunders has, a new coach or a new Flip can win more, now.

Another fourth quarter collapse. Never seem a team consistently finish weak like this team, except for the game they finished strong when Saunders was away.

It's all good with me, we need to crater hard to keep up with Sac and Cleveland so we don't end up screwed in June. One could say this creates a losing culture, but this team has been arse for 30 years, so the losing culture is already well entrenched, if it's going to be eradicated, it will take multiple canings, and sweeping out the vets we don't want with the rebuild (Blatche this year, Hinrich next year I suppose? at minimum) in deals. People get so pissed at these losses, I suppose I get it to some extent as we need to get young players developed, and it's no certainty that a crazy biased format of making them earn it could get it done is getting them developed, but regardless we need losses just as bad for talent infusions come June. You just saw what that idiotic Jville win did to the redskins draft slotting in a year they were desperate for a QB did right? We fell from sixth, and our pick virtually of any of the QB's, to 10th, and our pick of the leftovers, if that, w'Luck deciding to stay for another year.

Gotta suck. There is so much angst over this, I don't really get it. The more we suck, the better chance we have of having a guaranteed top 4 or 5 pick at worst, which is essential. Any heroic wins could totally screw us.

My only fear of this, admittedly a real fear, is that Wall gets tired of the losing and wants to bail the first chance he gets, but in truth, there is little we can do, other than land a genuine difference making stud in the draft to change that dynamic. No free agent worth a ---- is coming here till we start winning, so we have to find them in the draft.