McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35?

[WizarDynasty]

Here's is what Clippers boards are saying about the player drafted after McGee.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1081362 These were the two projects bigs. Looks like Ernie screwed up the pick bigtime. We wouldn't be screaming at the top of our lungs about a soft big that can't bench press his own weight and who's lateral foot speed is slower than Shaq's?

I don't know how nate does it but my tables are looked screwed up. Anyway here is the link.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/449 ... 0dN1buPaB4

Not only did Ernie not force mcgee to get stronger or faster, but it D.Jordan was considered the better prospect in the draft and we needed a physical 7ft awesome defensive rebounding center. D.jordan was being compared to D.Howard and it looks like the comparision might have been accurate. Another huge botch by Grunfeld possibly. Again, 3 years and McGee still looks like he has never done a bench press or improved his footspeed.


http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deandre-jordan - -D.Howard Comparison click here

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/javale-mcgee Andrew Bynum comparison

[Ruzious]

WizNas, Jordan's offensive skills are rivalled only by Michael Ruffin. Have you seen him play?

[tontoz]

McGee > Jordan

McGee isn't the one people here are screaming about. It's your boy Blatche that is causing all the headaches.

[nate33]

Pace-adjusted per-36 numbers:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO   PF eFG%  TS%  PER
jordan,deandre   9.9 10.2  0.8  0.9  2.4  1.8  4.6 .688 .655 15.3
mcgee,javale    12.1 11.0  0.6  0.9  3.3  1.6  3.9 .539 .564 18.5

Basically, McGee is better in every statistical category other than shooting efficiency, which can be partially explained by Jordan's opponents having to worry so much about Griffin's scoring. Jordan only shoots when it's a wide open shot from up close (37% of his shots are dunks. McGee, who dunks a lot, dunks on only 17% of his shots.)

I haven't watch Jordan play so I can't speak to the non-statistical aspects of their games. I note that they both have a relatively minor positive affect on their team's on/off differential (McGee is +3.8, Jordan is +4.4). Neither player's team wins much.

[closg00]

I have been following DJ's stats regularly, we made the better pick.

[WizarDynasty]

thanks nate. So who do we think is better at p/f? javale or Blatche?

you can click on link to see his last 10 games. No regression there. Not the case with scare of his shadow javale---remember "Starting center is the toughest guy on your team for most teams--Most playoff teams"

Jan 6 C DeAndre Jordan again patrolled the interior at both ends of the court with aplomb. He finished with 14 points, a season-high 20 rebounds and six blocks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/449 ... oiiqruPaB4

Finally--A center is suppose to be your toughest strongest player on your team. McGee is far far far from that. How many starting Centers is this league can you say that Center is even weaker strength wise than the powerforward?



I think that Jordan and McGee should go hand in hand in terms of where we thought mcgee would be. Scouts projected mcGee to be a Andrew Bynum clone--- how horrible could they have been. One is a tough, one is afraid of his own shadow and gets bullied.



Deandre Jordan may not be as good scorer but he excels in the categories that centers are suppose to excel at. Your starting center is suppose to be your toughest player on the court. if a fight breaks out, you expect for center to stand up for you if you are guard. When you look at it from that prospective, you realize just how little heart mcGee really has. I could never see Javale actually standing up for one of his team mates. You saw Blatche two days ago when someone was getting in Nick young's face.




All I am saying is that we are in serious trouble if we think javale is our starting bigman unless we someone how figure out how to make him tough. Maybe Blatche was trying to put someone toughness in his playmate when they got in a fight. All i know is that if your starting Center won't stand up for you if another big flagrantly fouls you..then you are big trouble.




The worst site to see was how pathetic javale looked when he waived bye bye to Elton Brand instead of being mad about a cheap move that could have ended his season.



We keep javale, he is a chris anderson type back up but he has no heart and no toughness. I would go to war 1000 times with Blatche to my side before i would even consider--Javale--a suppose "starting center"-- again center is typically the guy that protects his team mates.




I could easily see D. Jordan getting in someone's face for flagrant fouling Wall or Nick Young... ask yourself--- what center could you see javale center Javale shoving--after they intentionally send wall flying into the stands the way Pachuila did to wall.
it sad when your point guard is tougher than your center.



I don't advocate trading Javale but his lack of heart is the reason why he is the number one problem and should always come off the bench instead of start until he shows he has some heart and actually stands up for his team mates or pushes someone back..instead of cowering like he did the philadelphia game against Brand and Speights. People who have really serious problem with our starting center and we don't like to admit but its a huge reason why suck so badly. Our starting center is scared of his own shadow and what can you do if your management trying to solve this problem?



Tease him.. I don't know. All i know is that no team fears being overly aggressive with wizards because our suppose to interior presence backs down from any physical challenge and never stood up for one of his team mates against another big. Javale McGee people, has no respect from me until i see for once, stand up for one of his players. In 3 years it has never happened and if i were playing with javale i definitely wouldnt feel confident going inside because i know my suppose tough big man won't dish out any repercussions if his man commits a dirty play against me.



Blatche >>>>>>>> way more heart, will stand up for his team mate>>>
Back to the point----i believe that D. Jordan has more heart and toughness than javale which is why he is a way way better center.



javale is way to slow laterally defensively to ever be a starting p/f so i evaluate him as a center and D.Jordan is better even though he was picked afterwards. i feel we really need to have a measuring stick for mcgee and D.Jordan is the best stick since he was drafted afterwards and we should evaluate how both of these two have progressed as far as playing the position of center on both sides of the court.

I would love to see what our record is when McGee starts against a physical starting center. i am sure there is a huge correlation to how we perform.

[Ed Wood]

Alright, I know you have a reputation for being a little crazy WD, but I
really think you may be on to something here. But I think this
examination has to plumb even deeper into the issue.

You focus on physical concerns, and they are no doubt present.
On the other hand what about metaphysical concerns? Was Javale born
under an ill-fated astrological configuration? I have no idea.

And it is therefore fortunate that our very own Doclinkin makes this **** up on the regular.

The Doc cannot join us today so I'll pretend to channel his spirit:
Right, this is Doclinkin speaking and I would first like to take a moment
of your time and thank you all for reading this terrible post. Now,
let's get down to business. Is JaVale McGee a spiritual pariah or
leper or something?

I can say conclusively: No, he is not." Thank's for that Doc.

Returning to the central issue: why does this thread exist?
Allow me to provide my own spin on Javale, and on his
lackluster not being Andray Blatcheness, if you will. If one
looks Javale up on google image search reveals pictures of the
young center in wolverine claws and a dorky shirt.

Consider the implications of these pictures: namely that Javale is
a huge nerd. And what group of people is bad at sports? That's right,
nerds. JaVale needs to lift weights for the chicks, not
to get physically stronger.

To wrap things up then, you are wrong and why did you
even post the chart if it doesn't make any sense and you were posting the
link anyway? Andray Blatche drools, and I need one more line starting with L so:
l.

[tontoz]

Blatche is 46th in PER among 4s.
McGee is 8th in PER among centers.

PER obviously isn't a flawless measure but if i have to choose between the two i choose McGee easily. Blatche is an inefficient chucker, poor rebounder and a lazy defender.

[WizarDynasty]

Blatche is 46th in PER among 4s.
McGee is 8th in PER among centers.

PER obviously isn't a flawless measure but if i have to choose between the two i choose McGee easily. Blatche is an inefficient chucker, poor rebounder and a lazy defender.

If his per is so great, why can't we go to him when we need a high field goal percentage shot. How many elite centers has he held below their average?
All i know is McGee is way to slow to help on the pick and roll, he is way to soft setting screens to help his players, and he won't stand up for his team mates when they get shoved to the ground. That to me isn't a starting playoff center.

The whole point of this post is that McGee is crappy center if toughness is an essential trait that a center should be evaluated on. the player that he should be compared to his Deandre Jordan as far as having core skills needed to play center. We could easily have had D. Jordan--both project centers at the time. We see that D.Jordan has progressed far far--more in terms of centers skill than i want to be a small forward dunking from the free throw line mcgee.

We selected McGee to be our future center--he doesn't have the strength to play center even after 3 years!...he doesn't have the foot speed to keep up on the pick and roll after 3 years. i am just tired of making excuses for him. he has gotten an ounce tougher since we drafted him. Not once have i ever seen him stand up to any bigger...ever in three years.

We need to evaluate where to go with our future and javale until he gets tougher--not-- has to be considered a bench player. Everyone wants to hate on Blatche because his jumper isn't falling but Blatche will stand up for his team mate, blatche will body someone up...McGee flails to ground...waiving like a --man---after Brand punks him.

i think this board really needs to get on McGee for not doing the things to make himself a better center for the Washington Wizards especially when his comparison in the draft "D.Jordan has. D.Jordan has gotten stronger, D. Jordan has consistently shown a physical presence on both sides of the glass. javale has fallen far short of what we thought his upside would be..a healthy physical andrew bynum. instead of hitting the weight room, our starting center wants to play with toys. You guys don't see this as a problem though. Toughness at the center position is essential for success. javale is never going to get tough--so we never be successful longterm with him starting

[nate33]

WIzD, your criticisms of McGee are certainly valid. McGee is not strong and he is not tough. That may indeed relegate him to be a permanent backup. Time will tell.

In McGee's defense, I'll point out that he had a late growth spurt. He grew an inch last season. It's kind of hard to put on serious "man strength" when you are still growing. Essentially, McGee is physically more like a 20-year-old than a 22-year-old. I think he needs some more time before we can rule out the possibility that he'll put on more bulk. There is hope yet.

It's actually a bit encouraging to see how good his numbers are despite his general lack of strength and girth. 12 points, 11 boards and 3.3 blocks per 36 is nothing to scoff at. If he can maintain those numbers while actually learning how to play smart basketball, he'd be a borderline all-star caliber player. If he added some bulk, he'd be better still.

As much as McGee frustrates all of us, let's not lose sight of the fact that he's already producing some nice numbers for a young big, and he does so while maintaining a positive on/off differential. That's actually pretty rare for a young center. If things work out, he'll just start turning the corner when his contract is up. We resign him to a relatively cheap new deal, and then he blows up as he finally matures physically at the age of 24.

[Ruzious]

Javale is 250 plus pounds with very low body fat %. And that's with him being a physically late developing person who will continue to fill out. There's no reason he can't become stronger than the average center. He could be about 270 when he hits his late 20's. Size SHOULD be anything but a problem for Javale.

[WizarDynasty]

WIzD, your criticisms of McGee are certainly valid. McGee is not strong and he is not tough. That may indeed relegate him to be a permanent backup. Time will tell.

In McGee's defense, I'll point out that he had a late growth spurt. He grew an inch last season. It's kind of hard to put on serious "man strength" when you are still growing. Essentially, McGee is physically more like a 20-year-old than a 22-year-old. I think he needs some more time before we can rule out the possibility that he'll put on more bulk. There is hope yet.

It's actually a bit encouraging to see how good his numbers are despite his general lack of strength and girth. 12 points, 11 boards and 3.3 blocks per 36 is nothing to scoff at. If he can maintain those numbers while actually learning how to play smart basketball, he'd be a borderline all-star caliber player. If he added some bulk, he'd be better still.

As much as McGee frustrates all of us, let's not lose sight of the fact that he's already producing some nice numbers for a young big, and he does so while maintaining a positive on/off differential. That's actually pretty rare for a young center. If things work out, he'll just start turning the corner when his contract is up. We resign him to a relatively cheap new deal, and then he blows up as he finally matures physically at the age of 24.

he keeps a good per because he only attempts put back dunks off other peoples misses when someone doesn't box him out. Can we count of McGee to help us win a game in the 4th quarter. a big H3ll to No". He has been here 3 years and we can't count on him to deliver anything in the 4th when we need it because he can't get physical on the blocks and he gets bullied when we need an interior presence. The only time he does something is when forgets about javale in the paint. they easily score over him when they know where he is at. instead of practicing dunking from the free throw line, something that is useless for a physical center, he could have easily spent that time bench pressing getting stronger so he would get shoved around or not be afraid to stand up for his team mates.

[WizarDynasty]

Javale is 250 plus pounds with very low body fat %. And that's with him being a physically late developing person who will continue to fill out. There's no reason he can't become stronger than the average center. He could be about 270 when he hits his late 20's. Size SHOULD be anything but a problem for Javale.

By the time he hits his late 20's are you serious. how many soft centers do you know in nba history that magically turned tough after 3 years? he could have built superior strength his first year off a serious bench pressing program. he didn't and his body shows it. There are no excuses now, its his third year and he still plays soft and won't push anyone back when shoved. He is never going to be tough and we are never going to be a decent without that has no toughness. he inspired absolutely no confidence in his team mates as far as protecting them from opposing bigs. No one in the league is afraid of javale if they punk Wall.

I use to hate on haywood, and he was soft too but...javale....defines...the definition of soft for a position that historically is the strongest toughest biggest person on teh court that you don't want to mess with. Center is your teams protector.

the whole point is that we had D.Howard project vs. A.Bynum project. D.jordan looks a hell of alot more similiar to D.howard than j.mcgee is compared to bynum. What successful center in history has ever won a championship playing soft the way Java does. The odds are stacked against us going anywhere with Java starting. We should be training him to come off the bench and orchestrate a trade to get D.jordan--maybe Kaman. Clippers have bigmen that are both starting caliber centers that are tough.

[tontoz]

McGee can't be blamed for the teams 4th quarter collapses because most of the time he is on the bench. Funny how the collapses happen when he isn't in the game. I think there is a lesson there.

Javale played only 2 minutes in the 4th quarter last game. Not surprisingly the Sixers dominated the quarter.

[WizarDynasty]

McGee can't be blamed for the teams 4th quarter collapses because most of the time he is on the bench. Funny how the collapses happen when he isn't in the game. I think there is a lesson there.

Javale played only 2 minutes in the 4th quarter last game. Not surprisingly the Sixers dominated the quarter.

he is on the bench because he can't be counted giving you anything when you need it. McGee is a surprise player. he gets his blocks when the defender stops paying attention to him. McGee gets his put backs when the defense doesn't put a body on him.

Javale mcgee is easy to stop offensively and easy to score against if a player knows where mcgee is.
you can't count on mcgee hitting a clutch shot...you can't count on mcgee setting a solid pick and actually holding a point guard with his pick because he is so weak and not tough. you can count on mcgee to dislodge a pick setter before they deliver a punishing blow to Wall on a pick and roll. That's why non tough mcgee needs to be trained to come off the bench and immediate plans for a center with toughness needs to be this teams number one priority.
And anyone who thinks that mcGee is better p/f or will ever be a p/f than blatche wow..i just beg to differ.
McGee is a surprise athlete. He can't give the ball to mcgee and expect to help you win. you can't rely on mcgee to over power his man and will his way to an offensive rebound. McGee gets most of his stats because the other team had mental lapse, not because McGee executed skills that a true center is suppose to have like, using yoru body to suck up space, like catching the ball on the block and scoring during clutch moments of the game.

McGee is a part of our future, but not a starting piece of our future. History does not help the cause of him magically developing toughness and standing up starting bigman centers on elite playoff teams.

[PerkinsFor3]

Did someone say we ( clipps) have two tough centers? Kaman though? Lol....

[WizarDynasty]

Did someone say we ( clipps) have two tough centers? Kaman though? Lol....

Ok..obviously you haven't spent 3 years watching Soft Java. Kaman is like Godzilla compared to javale lol.

[Hoopalotta]

More or less OT post alert!

You know, in looking at Javale's plus/minus numbers, he's almost first to worst when you split between the home and away games.

Home
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... am=Wizards

He's at +.159 points per minutes at home, which is good for 2nd on the team behind Cartier who's only pulled a fraction of Javale's PT.

Away
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... am=Wizards

On the road, he's down to -.386 points per minute, which is basically tied for second worst with K-Honey (both are behind Blatche, who also has a dramatic swing; actually, every single prominent player has been terrible on the road).

[tontoz]

McGee can't be blamed for the teams 4th quarter collapses because most of the time he is on the bench. Funny how the collapses happen when he isn't in the game. I think there is a lesson there.

Javale played only 2 minutes in the 4th quarter last game. Not surprisingly the Sixers dominated the quarter.

he is on the bench because he can't be counted giving you anything when you need it. McGee is a surprise player. he gets his blocks when the defender stops paying attention to him. McGee gets his put backs when the defense doesn't put a body on him.

Javale mcgee is easy to stop offensively and easy to score against if a player knows where mcgee is.
you can't count on mcgee hitting a clutch shot...you can't count on mcgee setting a solid pick and actually holding a point guard with his pick because he is so weak and not tough. you can count on mcgee to dislodge a pick setter before they deliver a punishing blow to Wall on a pick and roll. That's why non tough mcgee needs to be trained to come off the bench and immediate plans for a center with toughness needs to be this teams number one priority.
And anyone who thinks that mcGee is better p/f or will ever be a p/f than blatche wow..i just beg to differ.
McGee is a surprise athlete. He can't give the ball to mcgee and expect to help you win. you can't rely on mcgee to over power his man and will his way to an offensive rebound. McGee gets most of his stats because the other team had mental lapse, not because McGee executed skills that a true center is suppose to have like, using yoru body to suck up space, like catching the ball on the block and scoring during clutch moments of the game.

McGee is a part of our future, but not a starting piece of our future. History does not help the cause of him magically developing toughness and standing up starting bigman centers on elite playoff teams.

He is on the bench because of coaching stupidity. If the team repeatedly collapses in the 4th quarter when McGee is on the bench that should be a clue that McGee shouldn't be on the bench in the first place. It isn't like the Wizards are playing well when McGee is out.

Meanwhile Blatche is in the game throwing up perimeter bricks and passing the ball to spectators on one end, watching guys blow past him on the other end. Over the last 5 games Blatche is shooting only 34% yet he is jacking up 16 shots per game. That is just a joke.

[WizarDynasty]

first off, you don't have a physical center to clear out the lane for Blatche to operate in the post.

If Blatche actually had a physical tough center, that center would easily be able to screen out there man and allow blatche to operate inside without getting double teamed. McGee is so weak that he can't even body his man out to give blatche a driving lane to basket. Every time it looks like Javale has his man pinned behind him, he gets over powered and thrown to the side like a rag doll. Everytime we try and post Javale up, we have to pass it somewhere else because he isnt' strong enough to seal off his man for an entry pass deep in the post.

javale's lack of toughness causes alot of unseen problems.