Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[WizarDynasty]

he actually has reliable post moves, and has the strength to defensive rebound. Something we haven't seen since Wes Unseld Day's. Have we ever had a post player with reliable post moves who was also an above average defensive rebounder and shot blocker.

McGee can't win games for you in the 4th quarter--by shooting high percentage post shots and because he isn't tough on the blocks.
java is a small forward mentally and he plays like soft perimeter player. javale to centers is what Travis Outlaw is the s/f. Long range but has no powerbase, and easily get overpowered and dominated and refuses to add considerable mass to his body even though years have gone by.


Kaman can and is 10 times tougher on the blocks and has way better foot coordination than Soft Java. like i said in a previous post, java has no consistency because he relies on surprising opponents. Mano y Mano--java isn't doing anything. its only when someone forgets to block out or put a body on him...that he does something..which is why he is unreliable. Instead of pushing back, java flops to the ground or allows and easy score. No toughness. kaman is godzilla as far toughness in comparison to Java and would be a tremendous upgrade.

[Ed Wood]

Well for a guy with reliable post moves Kaman hasn't shown himself to be especially effective offensively over the course of his career. His career efg and ts numbers are very blah (.486 and .528) and his per minute production hasn't been that mind-blowing either. JaVale "surprise" McGee has exactly the same per 36 scoring average over his (shorter and non-peak including) career (14.1 pts) and only narrowly trails Kaman in rebounding, and in rebounding % (which I know aren't great stats, rebounding rates I don't know where to find, someone better at this could do that).

In fact, JaVale's rebound % over his first three years look an awful lot like Kaman's first three years, 15.1% vs. 14.2%, 14.5% vs. 15.6% and 17.6% vs 17%. Kaman only exceeded that 17% once in his career and has been at around 15.5% for the last three years. The one thing Kaman is better at is defensive rebounding, which is a component of defense, but Kaman is not actually good at defense. The Clippers have been consistently bad defensively over the last few years and as I've said Kaman does not look good individually either.

[WizarDynasty]

Well for a guy with reliable post moves Kaman hasn't shown himself to be especially effective offensively over the course of his career. His career efg and ts numbers are very blah (.486 and .528) and his per minute production hasn't been that mind-blowing either. JaVale "surprise" McGee has exactly the same per 36 scoring average over his (shorter and non-peak including) career (14.1 pts) and only narrowly trails Kaman in rebounding, and in rebounding % (which I know aren't great stats, rebounding rates I don't know where to find, someone better at this could do that).

In fact, JaVale's rebound % over his first three years look an awful lot like Kaman's first three years, 15.1% vs. 14.2%, 14.5% vs. 15.6% and 17.6% vs 17%. Kaman only exceeded that 17% once in his career and has been at around 15.5% for the last three years. The one thing Kaman is better at is defensive rebounding, which is a component of defense, but Kaman is not actually good at defense. The Clippers have been consistently bad defensively over the last few years and as I've said Kaman does not look good individually either.

So kaman selected as an allstar by coaches means coaches had no eye for a top 3 center in the western conference. i beg to differ. i will take kaman over soft java any day of the week...the day that i see java stand up for his team mates is when i will change my mind. otherwise he is soft bench player than can be counted to produce in the 4th quarter to win games.

[Ed Wood]

Yes, sometimes not especially fantastic players wind up playing in an all star game, particularly big men because there is a general dearth of not awful big men in the NBA. Just looking at the past seven years worth of rosters the following players have been all stars:

2010 Jason Kidd
Kaman
2009 Shaq
2009 Allen Iverson
Mo Williams
2009 Rashard Lewis
2008 Rasheed Wallace
2008 Jason Kidd
2008 Allen Iverson
Richard Hamilton
Mehmet Okur
Josh Howard
Kenyon Martin
2004 Steve Francis
Jamaal **** Magloire

So yes, I would tend to trust very average statistical production, a general lack of team success and widespread ambivalence towards the prospect of acquiring the presumably available Kaman on the part of most of the NBA over the fact that he was a (mediocre/bad but understandable) all-star selection.

[nate33]

Kaman would be a pretty nice fit here since his contract expires in 2012. I wouldn't mind a trade based on Blatche + expirings for Kaman. I wouldn't include a pick though.

[tontoz]

Since I am in a Blatche-bashing mood i feel obligated to point out that his TS% of 47.2% is an absolute traveshamockery. He ranks 65th in the NBA in TS% among power forwards. His TS% of 51.9% from last year wouldn't even crack the top 50.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dalembert for Hinrich and Howard

* SAC wants a PG alternative to U-man and Kirk is servicable while being an expiring the following year.

* Wiz get to try-out Dalembert as a running-mate with Wall, we could even waive Neck
* Wiz Sign Miles for the remainder of the year

Samuel Dalembert's stay in Sacramento has been short and anything but sweet. The Kings center has been injured, frustrated about the style of play and, of late, more than mildly upset about his diminishing role. If he isn't exactly demanding a trade, his agent, Marc Cornstein, is in town seeking clarification of his client's role – and is more than a little receptive to a relocation. "They have to let me know which direction they want to go," Dalembert said. "They know what I do best. I block shots, rebound, get us in the fast break. Am I going to play the next five years in a place that is a contender, or am I going to be here, helping this team get better? It's up to them.

This is a GREAT idea!

Dalembert is a great dude from all I can tell. Met him once and dude laughed at a joke I made. Seems exceptionally humble and hardworking. Easy going and positive. Same kind of player as neck Armstrong, but much longe and better at rebounding and shotblocking.

I dont know if Sam speaks French, being from Haiti, but that would be good chemistry-wise with Seraphin and N'Diaye (when not in D League).

This trade would save Flip from himself. Too much Hinrich is hurting Flip. I love Kirk's game for limited ninutes. Sammy would be a PERFECT veteran mentor for Javale.

This trade idea is terrific.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nate, our (and I agree it's here) "culture of losing" is - in my mind - the concrete manifestation of what others refer to as "the curse".

We really need a top to bottom scrub of not just personnel (not just talking players, but EVERYONE - trainers, etc) but of the way our people do things, perceive things, accomplish things, pay attention to detail, etc.

+1

[WizarDynasty]

Love may get rebounds but he is a horrible defensive player. Look how many blocks he gets. Also he has no reliable post game to speak of, basically a jump shooter. There is a reason why Timberwolves suck so bad. Love is a stat stuffer but number reveals he is undersized and horrible defender. He also has no reliable post game. He is role playing bench player that is looking to be treated like a superstar because he good at collecting misses.

That will not let you win against the elite teams and that's why timberwolves would trade him in a heart beat if they can get a bigger p/f that can play in the post offensively and block shots.

[Dat2U]

Wizards trade:
Top #3 protected pick - '11 draft (unprotected in '12)
CE Kevin Seraphin
SG Nick Young
Wolves trade:
PF Kevin Love

Minny hears Love already talking about leaving and knowing it may be tough getting him to sign an extension, deals him for a high lottery pick, a starting SG and a very recent pick with potential.

Wizards trade:
PF Andray Blatche
Cavaliers trade:
CE Anderson Varejao

Wizards subtract low IQ bone headed offensive play for high IQ defensive minded attitude.

Wizards new core:
PG John Wall
PF Kevin Love
CE Javale McGee
Veteran role players:
F/C Anderson Varejao
F Rashard Lewis
G Kirk Hinrich

Wizards would have a good mix of young talent and veteran role players going forward and a well balanced roster with a mix of rebounding, shot blocking, outside shooting & defense. Outside of McGee everyone has a high b-ball IQ. There would be a gaping hole at SG but maybe that's a need that we could try to fill in the off-season.

PF Love / Booker
SF Lewis
CE McGee / Varejao
SG
PG Wall / Hinrich

[DaRealHibachi]

Another soft frontcourt... I'd rather just do the Dray for Varejao and be done with it...

IMO, Love is overrated; Great rebounder, but soft, plays no D and his FG% sucks... Guess who he shoots better than over the last couple years...???

You guessed it; Our very own Andray Blatche...

No thanks...

[LyricalRico]

^ I like the overall idea, but I think you start Verajao for his defense. Actually, at that point I might even look to move McGee (or included him in the deal for Love and keep Seraphin).

[closg00]

I'd have no problem trading Seraphin, simply because I don't think he'll be a contributor during his rookie contract...mainly because of lack of playing-time. We could swap him out for somebody more game-ready like Sullinger and be ahead of the game. Seraphin trade-value I suspect would be very low. (High 2nd rounder....maybe)

[nate33]

Another soft frontcourt... I'd rather just do the Dray for Varejao and be done with it...

IMO, Love is overrated; Great rebounder, but soft, plays no D and his FG% sucks... Guess who he shoots better than over the last couple years...???

You guessed it; Our very own Andray Blatche...

No thanks...

Agree 100%.

I'm all in on moving Blatche right now. If we can get Varajeo, it would really solidify our interior defense and improve our team IQ while not impairing our cap flexibility. But, I wouldn't be all that excited about trading Young, Seraphin and a high lotto pick for Kevin Love. I think I'd rather just go after a less overrated player like Jason Thompson. We could probably trade Thornton and our lotto pick for him. Either that or just draft a big with our lotto pick. Heck, just draft Sullinger and our team next year looks like this:

PG Wall/Hinrich
SG Young/Hinrich
SF Lewis/Howard (1 year extension)
PF Sullinger/Booker
C Varejao/McGee

Much smarter, much tougher, better at rebounding, has a low post option, has depth at center, and major upside with Wall, Young, Sullinger and McGee still improving.

The more I think about it, the more I like this plan. Trade Blatche for Varajeo; make do this year with Booker, Lewis and Varajeo at PF; and then find a PF on draft day either via draft or a trade for someone like Jason Thompson.

[LyricalRico]

The more I think about it, the more I like this plan. Trade Blatche for Varajeo; make do this year with Booker, Lewis and Varajeo at PF; and then find a PF on draft day either via draft or a trade for someone like Jason Thompson.

Totally agree.

Still, one potential roadblock to Blatche-for-Verajao would be if the Cavs use their trade exception to facilitate a Melo deal by taking on Al Harrington. Even if CLE plans to play Harrington at SF, that would likely be so they can continue to develop Hickson at PF. So where would Blatche fit in? They'd have to see Blatche as a center to make it work in that scenario. Or otherwise admit they were wrong to value Hickson so highly.

[tontoz]

Another soft frontcourt... I'd rather just do the Dray for Varejao and be done with it...

IMO, Love is overrated; Great rebounder, but soft, plays no D and his FG% sucks... Guess who he shoots better than over the last couple years...??? You guessed it; Our very own Andray Blatche...

No thanks...

Love's TS% is currently 10% higher than Blatche's. Not that i would be looking to trade for him but comparing him to Blatche is ridiculous.

[LyricalRico]

Love might be the new Zach Randolph - stat stuffer on a bad team that parlays his numbers into a max contract while sucking on defense. Although Love does come with a better attitude than Zach reportedly had at the same age.

[nate33]

The more I think about it, the more I like this plan. Trade Blatche for Varajeo; make do this year with Booker, Lewis and Varajeo at PF; and then find a PF on draft day either via draft or a trade for someone like Jason Thompson.

Totally agree.

Still, one potential roadblock to Blatche-for-Verajao would be if the Cavs use their trade exception to facilitate a Melo deal by taking on Al Harrington. Even if CLE plans to play Harrington at SF, that would likely be so they can continue to develop Hickson at PF. So where would Blatche fit in? They'd have to see Blatche as a center to make it work in that scenario. Or otherwise admit they were wrong to value Hickson so highly.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Melo agrees to resign in Cleveland.

Cleveland might be able to find a better deal for Varejao than Blatche, but a Melo package isn't one of them.

[nate33]

Love might be the new Zach Randolph - stat stuffer on a bad team that parlays his numbers into a max contract while sucking on defense. Although Love does come with a better attitude than Zach reportedly had at the same age.

Whatever the case, it's certainly true that Minnesota is going to value Love more than he is actually worth in any trade. They're not going to trade him unless they get a great package in return. The team offering up that great package is going to regret it.

I'd wait a while before trying to acquire Love. If he gets frustrated enough with losing in Minnesota, he might start talking about accepting a one-year qualifying offer so that he can become an unrestricted free agent as soon as possible. If that happens, Minnesota will be much more motivated to trade him and his trade value will drop.

[verbal8]

The more I think about it, the more I like this plan. Trade Blatche for Varajeo; make do this year with Booker, Lewis and Varajeo at PF; and then find a PF on draft day either via draft or a trade for someone like Jason Thompson.

Totally agree.

Still, one potential roadblock to Blatche-for-Verajao would be if the Cavs use their trade exception to facilitate a Melo deal by taking on Al Harrington. Even if CLE plans to play Harrington at SF, that would likely be so they can continue to develop Hickson at PF. So where would Blatche fit in? They'd have to see Blatche as a center to make it work in that scenario. Or otherwise admit they were wrong to value Hickson so highly.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Melo agrees to resign in Cleveland.

Cleveland might be able to find a better deal for Varejao than Blatche, but a Melo package isn't one of them.

Cleveland would not be getting Melo. NJ would be. I think CLE is actually taking on Troy Murphy(even worse fit with Blatche) in that deal. The deal fell apart when both DEN and CLE wanted the GS pick that NJ owns.

The part of that rumored deal that doesn't make sense to me is that CLE ends up paying 18 million for 2 picks and a 1/2 season of Troy Murphy. It seems that Memphis or the Twolves would be better 3rd parties.