Nothing Thread--only one opinion counts-LOCK ME

[Ruzious]

I'd love to have them both - 3 years from now. I'm thinking that Wall's value will eventually not just be his ability on the court, but his effect on drawing others to the Wiz. And it should help to have an owner like Ted - who will help Wall utilize that ability. He'll have that charismatic leader thing going for him. And Cousins would seem like a very logical target. Edit - I concur with what Bruce said.

You can argue either way who the better or more dominant player now is, but it doesn't really matter - as long as both players are learning to become the best they can. They are both on teams where the future is not now, so a longer term view makes more sense.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

John Wall simply hasn't been here long enough. Once he's off his rookie contract the haters will all come rolling in with their I told you so's and trades for overpaid scrubs.

All I can say about Wall is that I do not see a Winner in him. I see way more LeBron than Kobe in Wall, which to me means he will be looking to bolt to the next Miami Heat long before he gives a damn about turning the Wiz into the next Lakers.

Nice post. I think you nailed it, Ace. Is Wall a winner for the ages? I personally think he's like Russell Westbrook.

I was down on Wall prior to the draft because I didn't see dominating college stats, and I also thought dominating NBA PGs would be better. I thought Evan Turner would be better, but Cousins would be the best. If that qualifies me as a Wall hater, I confess.

I can admit when I am wrong. Wall is spectacularly talented. He is so much better than I thought that I know he deserved to go #1. That said, there were trade options of the #1 for multiple picks, or for a good player and a high lottery pick. Wizards could have had Cousins plus maybe Harris or Igoudala or that caliber player. My thought was never draft Cousins first--it was get him in a package for the rights to Wall.

I like Wall a lot and am glad he's a Wizard. Cousins is a winner IMO. Webber said he's got that mean scowl that intimidates. I am really curious to see if Cousins can have a long, successful career like Artest and Sheed Wallace. I also wonder if he'll make strides improving his body like DeJuan Blair has. Blair is dunking over guys and making spin moves around the basket. Cousins will be scary good if he tones up and drops 15 lbs.

[tontoz]

Cousins is good at padding his stats in garbage time.

Watching them against the Hawks the other night he only had 8 points going into the 4th quarter and Nique was making fun of him during the commentary for all his mental errors.

The Hawks had a huge lead, put the bench in, and that is when he started piling up the points. He had 16 points in the final 7:30 which made the final score look better and built up his stats but the game was never in doubt.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Still Wall. Cousins has to prove more to me that he can keep his head on straight over the stretch of the season. He'll have a good stretch of games like he is now, but then he could go out and do something stupid to disrupt team chemistry.

At the end of the day, one guy being better than the other in their rookie year is a moot point imo. Over the long stretch is where I find real value in Wall. I still have a bad gut feeling about Cousins, it's the same feeling I get with a guy like Blatche. Has all the talent in the world but is missing the drive and attitude of a professional.

Halcyon, nice post. Gut feelings a lot of tines turn out to be right. Time will tell.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall by far. It shouldn't even be a discussion really.

If it is not worth discussing how is Wall ranked fourth in T Mobile's rookie ranking and Cousins second?

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/

i think these rankings are right on. i mean, in my eyes cousins is a damn rare talent. i would give up anyone on the team outside wall to acquire him... but i think the general concern around here is his character issues. maybe he has none, who really knows?.. but i think were all a little sensitive to players with character issues, seeing how we have been riddled with low character, low bball iq players as of late

Thanks, zaRdsAndZeRos.

This board can get contentious, but it wouldn't be that way if everyone was open-minded.

[DaRealHibachi]

John Wall simply hasn't been here long enough. Once he's off his rookie contract the haters will all come rolling in with their I told you so's and trades for overpaid scrubs.

All I can say about Wall is that I do not see a Winner in him. I see way more LeBron than Kobe in Wall, which to me means he will be looking to bolt to the next Miami Heat long before he gives a damn about turning the Wiz into the next Lakers.

Based on what...???

[verbal8]

John Wall simply hasn't been here long enough. Once he's off his rookie contract the haters will all come rolling in with their I told you so's and trades for overpaid scrubs.

All I can say about Wall is that I do not see a Winner in him. I see way more LeBron than Kobe in Wall, which to me means he will be looking to bolt to the next Miami Heat long before he gives a damn about turning the Wiz into the next Lakers.

Based on what...???

Him not being Gilbert Arenas.

[DCZards]

Cousins is an exceptional talent and will be a NBA star IF he grows up and stops acting emotionally to everything that happens to him. He's a kid so I think he'll get it sooner or later.

However, Wall is just as talented and a simply remarkable physical talent. Wall needs to be given time to learn to play what I believe is the most difficult position in the NBA, which is why I'm not impressed or moved by his "rookie ranking" after two months on the job and several games lost to injuries.

I'd also argue that Wall plays a far more important position than Cousins. The NBA is increasingly becoming a guard league, especially a PG league given the wealth of great PGs who have come into the league in the past 4-5 years.

Look at Boston. Rondo is their most important player, imo...maybe even their best player. And Rose is clearly the most important player in Chicago, even with talented big men like Noah and Boozer on the roster. In fact, even if and when Cousins becomes a star, I believe T. Evans will continue to be Sacramento's most important player. I think Jordan (and now Kobe and LeBron) are showing that the most dangerous (and valuable) person on most NBA teams is the guy controlling the rock the bulk of the time.

As far as Cousins being on this Wizard team, one of the other points that Webber and Miller made last night is the problems that stem from Sacramento's lack of veteran leadership on the court and in the locker room. While I expect Lewis and Howard to eventually provide that leadership for the Zards, right now having an immature Cousins on the same team as McGee and Blatche is not a pretty picture.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Excellent post, DCZards.

It's too bad Cousins and the young Wizards don't have established, respected veteran mentors to guide them. If Webber could suit up and take a role like Juwan has had at his last few stops, Chris or a similar guy could really help.

As far as not a pretty picture, remember when Washington had Webber, Howard, Rasheed, and IIRC Ben Wallace on the same roster? They lost patience with players who each matured and had good careers.

Also, PG is a more important position and these early rankings don't mean much, agreed, DCZ.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Guy hits a rookie wall (no pun intended), misses a few games due to injuries, his team does bad and everyone starts questioning his talents and his capacity to win.

I'm not happy with the current state of things either. I thought maybe we could have been a decent team that had a chance at a lower playoff seed. But the reality set in pretty fast early in the season.

You guys need to save the whining for better times. It's a lot more fun to complain when things are going right and the whining is meaningful, as in criticism of a team that had expectations.


Comparing rookies not even half way into the season is STUPID.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Flip's quote about the difference between Wall and Paul is not stupid. I compared him to Westbrook, but that's a compliment. Westbrook had the Lakers on their heels. He destroyed them. He's no Dwayne Wade but he is great--and a winner.

AD doubts Wall is in the class of Winner like Lebron. I don't think so. Then again, I remember Kobe as a rookie. Bryant then wasn't as good as Wall is now IMO.

Comparing Cousins on this board right now to Wall is just like any other topic, something to talk about.

[God Squad]

Wall looks like a future superstar. Cousins looks like a low post scorer who can dominate but is not dependable (fouls, defense, attitude). Nothing's changed since the draft.

Landry Fields was East rookie of the month. He is crucial right now to a winning team's success. He is more impactful than Wall if for no other reasons than he lets the game come to him.

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/

See where this link rates Wall.

I think your right CCJ. Fields has done more and is rising up those ranks. I had doubts about cousins at first..But you can't deny the talent. He HAS done more that Wall so far this season. Not to say he is better than wall. But he has def done more and played overall better.

[Nivek]

Maybe I'm just feeling curmudgeonly today, but I'm just not all that impressed with Cousins yet. He's had some good scoring games, but his shooting percentage is less than impressive, his rebounding is on the low side for a center, and he commits too many turnovers. His ortg is in Blatche territory.

I'd take Wall every day of the week and twice on Sunday. And that's with full acknowledgement that Wall shoots a low percentage and commits too many turnovers. Wall can help a team even when he's not scoring -- Cousins can't do that right now.

All that said, Griffin and Fields are the top rookie performers this year. The Knicks lucked out big time with Fields.

[DallasShalDune]

If Wall played every game this season, and he kept the same amount of production in those 11 games he missed, then he would be unanimously the best player from the 2010 draft, and the second best rookie this year. Landry Fields has health, a winning team, and not-half-bad stats to beat the unhealthy Wall.

Otherwise, Wall is number two on those meaningless rankings.

[AceDegenerate]

John Wall simply hasn't been here long enough. Once he's off his rookie contract the haters will all come rolling in with their I told you so's and trades for overpaid scrubs.

All I can say about Wall is that I do not see a Winner in him. I see way more LeBron than Kobe in Wall, which to me means he will be looking to bolt to the next Miami Heat long before he gives a damn about turning the Wiz into the next Lakers.

Based on what...???

Him not being Gilbert Arenas.

It's funny because it's partially true. (prime) Arenas was way more of the Kobe type than the LeBron. We saw it first hand, head to head in the playoffs Arenas was the anti-LeBron.

Anyway, the point stands - I do not see Wall as a winner. I see him as the type who adores Winning and all that comes with it (see: LeBron) but not as the type who is going to do whatever it takes to win. I see a player who is a distributor who relies on others to get him where he needs to go (see: LeBron). I do not see a player who imposes his will on the game and can carry a team on his back (see: Kobe).

He's a rookie and time will tell with how his game evolves, I'm calling it as I see it right now.

[nate33]

Anyway, the point stands - I do not see Wall as a winner. I see him as the type who adores Winning and all that comes with it (see: LeBron) but not as the type who is going to do whatever it takes to win. I see a player who is a distributor who relies on others to get him where he needs to go (see: LeBron). I do not see a player who imposes his will on the game and can carry a team on his back (see: Kobe).

He's a rookie and time will tell with how his game evolves, I'm calling it as I see it right now.

Just curious. Why do you have that impression?

I've seen a guy who has taken over the offense a few times after concluding that his teammates aren't going to get it done. The New Years Eve game at Indy is a good example.

Wall isn't a great player yet because he has to get better at handling the ball in traffic and defending the pick and roll, but so far, I've seen nothing to convince me that he won't be a winner.

[AceDegenerate]

I suppose there is simply not enough tape to make a determination one way or another. The kid has been injured for almost half the season, and dealing with all types of roster turnover in other games. I'm not making a final judgement on him one way or another, however generally watching Wall I get the impression I'm watching a player who either lacks the desire or ability to impose his will on the game.

I'll admit there was a handful of games early on where Wall looked completely the opposite and seemed like he had it in him to carry this team. Something has changed since then (maybe just him getting injured), and we will see if it comes back.

[Higga]

That's funny because quite often we have seen Wall take over games late and win us games(or at least put is in position to win). There is only so much you can do when you're hurt and the team around you is, for the most part pretty bad. We are talking about a 20 year old kid who had more assits in his first 6 games combined than anyone in NBA history and we aren't exactly putting hall of famers around him like they do in Boston with Rondo...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I started this thread and those thinking I am knocking Wall are wrong. He can be a HOF guard IMO. I just wanted to stir up the pot talking about Cousins. My biggest concern about Wall is with his ability to stay healthy.

I believe Wall would be as good as Rondo if he had a great cast of teammates and coaching like Rajon.

[The Consiglieri]

I'd say wall is the better rookie sans the injuries. But you know CCj I was with you predraft yelling that we should get cousins because we would really need him. | saw the indications that teams were not going to pick him early. Philly ended up with evans. jersey ended up with favors. Both nothing special and wes johnson to minnesota. I felt we could have given something to these teams in order to draft cousins who i felt we would really need down low on the rebounding side and low post scoring.

cousins is good where many thought i was crazy to say he would. No one wanted to even hear about him. I wanted both players and I think we could have gotten them if we gave up something for him. It's in the past though and that ship has sailed. I'm currently just looking at the new draft players though to form oppinions on them.

I'm not really sure what we could have given them, other than minnesota, perhaps we could have swung a deal with them, after they swindled us a year ago. I have no doubt that Wall was the wiser pick than Cousins. None. Additionally you're dead wrong on Favors. Lots of GM's around the league are trying to figure out how to become a part of the Melo deal so they can steal Favors. He's seen as potentially the most athletic, most physically talented player in terms of upside in the draft. He's not remotely comparable to Evans other than that New Jersey is taking their time integrating him into the team. It is true that during the summer they were alarmed at his play, but since the preseason and regular season began they've become very happy with the deal. They would be criminally insane to deal him and other pieces for Melo. Insane, he screams "future elite big guy". Is it a lead pipe lock? No. But neither is Cousins. And Favors doesn't carry the virtual personality disorder Cousins brings with him wherever he goes. If there's a guy i wold have loved for the wiz to trade up for in that draft, it would have been Favors, not Cousins, though Cousins would have been worth a shot too.