How long do we have to put up with Rambis?

[horaceworthy]

When does the "rookie" label go away? Year 4? 5? 10?

Based on his experience with the Lakers: one year of coaching, years under Phil Jackson, filling in for Phil on a number of occasions and last season with the Wolves, it's hard for me to look at him as a rookie.

Dwayne Casey certainly didn't get that exemption. Wittman, as much as we disliked him, didn't get the rookie exemption either.

I don't know when the rookie label goes away for eyeteeth. I don't consider Rambis a rookie, but I do consider him an inexperienced head coach (he has roughly two years experience as a head coach when you include his time with the Lakers) dealing with an inexperienced roster that's seen a high amount of turnover in recent years. ****'s going to hit the fan every now and then, and it won't be pretty.

Last night was an especially unpretty fan hitting, there's no excuse for not beating that team, and there's plenty of blame to go around (although I wouldn't push too much of it Love's way, or Beasley's). It's the kind of loss that obscures what improvement there has been this year. There was a point this year when the average point differential was -9, by far the worst in the league. Now it's -5.8, 3rd worst in the league (and hopefully dropping). Last year's average point differential was -9.6, worst in the league.

Casey didn't get an exemption, but in my opinion that was a mistake on the FO's part due to unrealistic expectations. Wittman had two full years with Cleveland and a half year as the interim man here before he took over for good, there was never a realistic claim to his rookieness.

I'm willing to be patient through the rest of this year, if more of the kinks aren't ironed out during the next season I won't be as willing to cut Rambis slack.

[Peezo]

I don't consider Rambis a rookie, but I just don't think any coach would be winning more games with us right now. Not to say some of the blame isn't his, but the same way he has blown some decisions Beas has missed some big shots. Love, Ridnour, Wes, and Brewer all deserve plenty of fourth quarter blame as well.

If anything the guy was not at all ready for a team that needed this much teaching. Kahn says he wants to be "no. 1 in player development," but what that really means is we need a guy who can turn young players and potential into veterans (and some with star power). Gotta be a tough thing to do.

A credit to Rambis: this team seems relatively upbeat and usually the players are taking the blame for the bad mistakes at the end of games. I think he is getting bashed now somewhat unfairly. In two years he will probably get more praise than he deserves.

[Vindicater]

How anyone can call Rambis a rookie when he has coached 158 games is beyond me.

I guess Kevin Love must be a rookie too then, Hes only played 177 games.

Or maybe your rookie untill you have played/coached enough games for people to get sick of making excuses for you?

On further thought I would give Rambis the year too work it out because I don't think there is an option for us now who we would look for long term coaching.

Give Rambis untill the end of the season and then fire his ass and hope another team in the west hires him so we can have one less team competeing for a playoff run in the future.

[Vindicater]

A credit to Rambis: this team seems relatively upbeat and usually the players are taking the blame for the bad mistakes at the end of games. I think he is getting bashed now somewhat unfairly. In two years he will probably get more praise than he deserves.

I agree that he will get alot of praise in two years time. He will get praise for developing this youth and he will also get pity because he wont be coaching us to the victories, that will actually be a coach who has a clue as to whats going on in an NBA game.

[LOBO 7]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVTHz57nb3s&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

This is a man who obviously understands what this team needs to improve upon to be able to consistently win games, he obviously understands that players are frustrated and is obviously frustrated himself, but this is also obviously a man who is remaining patient and not damaging the collective confidence or chemistry of the team by overreacting or throwing anyone under the bus. He is not the best Xs and Os coach on the planet, we all realize that, but he is learning as he goes and not being overly stubborn in his rotations or his play calling. The team continues to bring good energy almost always, which is what made last night an especially frustrating loss. I do think that this loss was probably one of the most difficult losses of the season for the players, as they realize that they absolutely should have won. We will soon see how they bounce back from this one, but I personally believe they will be very focused and energetic against the Blazers.
I strongly believe that Rambis is doing a great job of being patient and continuing to believe in his players, and that they in turn remain confident and optimistic. At this point, calling for this man's head is silly and selfish.
It's silly because Rambis is planted firmly in the center of our long-term plans. Realistically, I can't see firing him as a realistic consideration for another year. If this time next year things haven't gotten better I too will have lost patience and would be willing to consider looking for another coach. However, I really don't see that happening. I am of the belief that once this team puts it all together they will improve at a rapid rate.
It's selfish because those calling for his head are doing so because this team isn't meeting their own unrealistic expectations. Yes, on paper this team looks like it should win 30 games this season. However, this team has still not played a single game with a fully healthy roster. The roster has 10 new players on it, and is the youngest roster in the league. Young teams are historically frustrating and difficult to gauge in terms of what constitutes a realistic expectation for the team. As far as I'm concerned, it is fairly obvious that if this team averaged 5 or 6 fewer turnovers a game they would have won several more games than they have. There have been SOOOO many careless turnovers in key moments of games this year. Careless turnovers are something that you cannot pin on a coach, and I'm sure he is more enraged than any of us in that regard, but he realizes that that is something he has to patiently wait for the players to improve upon, and when they do, the results will come. For us to call for his head because the team isn't meeting our own arbitrary expectations that we formulated by looking at this team on paper is selfish.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I dont like a Darko/Wes 2 man game down the stretch at all, but overall I'm happy enough w/ Rambis. There isn't really an offense in the world that caters to guys that can't dribble or pass.

[slinky]

I just hope that when the wolves finally do get over the hump and start to close out some of these games, people give Rambis the same amount of credit as they give him blame now when they are losing.

Maybe I am a giant homer, but these team has been 10 times more exciting than it has been in many years. Its disappointing that we have lost many close games, but at the same time I enjoy being interested the entire game. It reminds me of the KG years, when you actually start to expect to win games and you get disappointed when you don't. The last 2-3 years, we have spent more time talking about 1 or 2 guys playing 'pretty good'. Now we are talking about 2 young stars, the potential for another one coming next year, several solid role players, and a couple young guys who have potential.

Do players make the coaches, or do coaches make the players...? I am content right now to give Rambis quite a bit of credit for how well the team has performed this year. Sure if we don't improve over the rest of the season, and into next season I will look for changes, but I am happy to give Rambis more than 35 games with a young team with 9 new players on the roster before labeling him a bust.

If Rambis' only skill is development then I am happy to let him coach for a couple of years until some of these young guys grow up and then you can bring in an experienced guy who knows how to use rotations, draw plays on a clipboard, and has an awesome amazing fantastic defensive system.

[shangrila]

I dont like a Darko/Wes 2 man game down the stretch at all, but overall I'm happy enough w/ Rambis. There isn't really an offense in the world that caters to guys that can't dribble or pass.

This

[Grits n Gravy]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVTHz57nb3s&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

This is a man who obviously understands what this team needs to improve upon to be able to consistently win games, he obviously understands that players are frustrated and is obviously frustrated himself, but this is also obviously a man who is remaining patient and not damaging the collective confidence or chemistry of the team by overreacting or throwing anyone under the bus. He is not the best Xs and Os coach on the planet, we all realize that, but he is learning as he goes and not being overly stubborn in his rotations or his play calling. The team continues to bring good energy almost always, which is what made last night an especially frustrating loss. I do think that this loss was probably one of the most difficult losses of the season for the players, as they realize that they absolutely should have won. We will soon see how they bounce back from this one, but I personally believe they will be very focused and energetic against the Blazers.
I strongly believe that Rambis is doing a great job of being patient and continuing to believe in his players, and that they in turn remain confident and optimistic. At this point, calling for this man's head is silly and selfish.
It's silly because Rambis is planted firmly in the center of our long-term plans. Realistically, I can't see firing him as a realistic consideration for another year. If this time next year things haven't gotten better I too will have lost patience and would be willing to consider looking for another coach. However, I really don't see that happening. I am of the belief that once this team puts it all together they will improve at a rapid rate.
It's selfish because those calling for his head are doing so because this team isn't meeting their own unrealistic expectations. Yes, on paper this team looks like it should win 30 games this season. However, this team has still not played a single game with a fully healthy roster. The roster has 10 new players on it, and is the youngest roster in the league. Young teams are historically frustrating and difficult to gauge in terms of what constitutes a realistic expectation for the team. As far as I'm concerned, it is fairly obvious that if this team averaged 5 or 6 fewer turnovers a game they would have won several more games than they have. There have been SOOOO many careless turnovers in key moments of games this year. Careless turnovers are something that you cannot pin on a coach, and I'm sure he is more enraged than any of us in that regard, but he realizes that that is something he has to patiently wait for the players to improve upon, and when they do, the results will come. For us to call for his head because the team isn't meeting our own arbitrary expectations that we formulated by looking at this team on paper is selfish.

nice post man, i agree...i'm still 100% behind rambis, i really want him to succeed and be the one here when we are in the playoffs competing

[Steve_Holiday]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ortCat=nba

Here's a link to a Bill Simmons column from 2007 when Doc Rivers was about to get a contract extension. You don't have to read the whole thing. Many posters here don't like Simmons...BUT, I think it illustrates quite nicely the point that players can make a coach.

[gensu3k1]

All Doc Rivers proved is that mediocre coaches win titles too.

[shangrila]

Pretty much. I mean, what did Rivers really do? Draw up ISOs for Pierce? Run PnRs with KG and Rondo? Run Allen off screens? Not exactly advanced offensive schemes going on here, especially for vets like that. I'll give him credit for managing the egos and getting everyone on the same page but really, that team made him as a coach more then anything. He didn't even do the defence really, as it was all Thibs and now it's Frank. So yeah.

Same thing with Spoelstra too. Nobody liked him at the start of the season and he wasn't all that impressive the 1st 2 years of his career either. He's Mike Brown-esque offensively. But in 5 years, when the Heat have a championship or more, how many will be saying he's an awesome coach? A lot, I'd imagine.

[Vindicater]

Pretty much. I mean, what did Rivers really do? Draw up ISOs for Pierce? Run PnRs with KG and Rondo? Run Allen off screens? Not exactly advanced offensive schemes going on here, especially for vets like that. I'll give him credit for managing the egos and getting everyone on the same page but really, that team made him as a coach more then anything. He didn't even do the defence really, as it was all Thibs and now it's Frank. So yeah.

Having good players no doubt makes a coach appear better. And Doc's offensive scheme is easy because he has the personal to run it. Why not make it easy when you have offensive monsters like Peirce and Allen? (Ray Allen is the key to the celtics success).

But he realised that and didnt try to complicate it. This is something Rambis does not do. A good coach adjusts his system for his players, not his players for the system.

As for his defensive scheme, of course he gets someone else to do it. So does Phil Jackson and even Greg Pop does that. Micromanaging a team is foolish and tiring to do. By delegating roles to his assistents Rambis should be able to con centrate more on the broader outlook of the game.

This (in my opinion) is what makes Phil Jackson such a great coach. He found his two guys early in his chicago years (Tex Winter for offence, Johhny Bach for defence) and let them implement their systems. This then allowed him to focus on managing the players and managing the games while they happened. If someone **** up a defensive rotation, they went to the bench and Bach talked to them leaving Jackson to watch the game. Then when a timeout was called Phil would always talk to these guys first.

I am resigned to the fact Rambis is here to stay, but we need to get him to delegate more.

[Dewey]

Michael Jordan when inducted into HOF, "Make no mistake about it ... it's a PLAYERS game!"

It's not rocket science

[Klomp]

As for his defensive scheme, of course he gets someone else to do it. So does Phil Jackson and even Greg Pop does that. Micromanaging a team is foolish and tiring to do. By delegating roles to his assistents Rambis should be able to con centrate more on the broader outlook of the game.

This (in my opinion) is what makes Phil Jackson such a great coach. He found his two guys early in his chicago years (Tex Winter for offence, Johhny Bach for defence) and let them implement their systems. This then allowed him to focus on managing the players and managing the games while they happened. If someone **** up a defensive rotation, they went to the bench and Bach talked to them leaving Jackson to watch the game. Then when a timeout was called Phil would always talk to these guys first.

I am resigned to the fact Rambis is here to stay, but we need to get him to delegate more.

How do you know he doesn't already do that?

[Krapinsky]

I think getting rid of Kahn is probably more deserving at this point -- and I'm a Kahn defender.

Darko has been a mixed bag. Pekovic doesn't look great. Johnson over Cousins is questionable. Flynn over Curry. Yada, yada, yada...

[AQuintus]

How do you know he doesn't already do that?

Because the offensive system (the Triangle) and the defensive system (viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1076570) are apparently both Rambis' doing. Whereas Jackson got his offensive system from Tex Winters and I'm assuming he got his D system form Bach (don't know enough to say for sure), and Rivers obviously got his defensive system from Thibodeau.

Edit:

Darko has been a mixed bag. Pekovic doesn't look great. Johnson over Cousins is questionable. Flynn over Curry. Yada, yada, yada...

Darko - A Rambis acquisition.
Pekovic - Cashing in on McHale's failure.
Johnson over Cousins - A mix of Rambis and Ronzone (on top of Rambis' love for Darko).
Flynn over Curry - Legit criticism.

Edit 2: Either way, getting rid of Kahn would mean getting rid of Rambis too. No other GM is going to put up with a coach with a .183 winning percentage.

[Tirion]

Fire Rambis!

[Steve_Holiday]

All Doc Rivers proved is that mediocre coaches win titles too.

that's my point. IF Rambis is a mediocre coach (like Doc Rivers, supposedly), why fire him if he has all the qualifications of a champion???

[shangrila]

Having good players no doubt makes a coach appear better. And Doc's offensive scheme is easy because he has the personal to run it. Why not make it easy when you have offensive monsters like Peirce and Allen? (Ray Allen is the key to the celtics success).

But he realised that and didnt try to complicate it. This is something Rambis does not do. A good coach adjusts his system for his players, not his players for the system.

But his offensive system was never complicated, even before he got the big 3. So it wasn't so much him adjusting his system as it was just getting awesome players to run it.

It's like, most people think this offensive system sucks. But if you bring in a Kobe/Lebron and a Nash, then no worries and Rambis has an awesome winning percentage and is the next rising star of a coach. Circumstances play a huge role in how you win in the NBA.

Also, I'm curious as to what more you want him to do, really? He's put in more PnRs lately, a LOT more, so he's basically simplified the offence and they still can't get anything out of it. His star, Beasley, is average or maybe above average on a good day dribbling wise so "let Beasley go to work" as so many people suggest is a better way to rack up turnovers that points if he's not at PF. Love is probably the only player worthy of being a #1 option on this team and that would likely kill his efficiency, so that's out. Outside of that he's got Miller 2.0 in Johnson, a bi-polar Darko, trashy point guards, inconsistent or out of control wings and centres that wouldn't get off the bench on a good team.

I see a lot of people pointing out that he's wrong. For something constructive, how about people start listing what they'd do differently?

As for his defensive scheme, of course he gets someone else to do it. So does Phil Jackson and even Greg Pop does that. Micromanaging a team is foolish and tiring to do. By delegating roles to his assistents Rambis should be able to con centrate more on the broader outlook of the game.

This (in my opinion) is what makes Phil Jackson such a great coach. He found his two guys early in his chicago years (Tex Winter for offence, Johhny Bach for defence) and let them implement their systems. This then allowed him to focus on managing the players and managing the games while they happened. If someone **** up a defensive rotation, they went to the bench and Bach talked to them leaving Jackson to watch the game. Then when a timeout was called Phil would always talk to these guys first.

What broader outlook? That the team sucks regardless of what he tries to do?

I guess you're right, but this team doesn't have any defensive wiz assistants as it is so there's really no one to hand it off to.

I am resigned to the fact Rambis is here to stay, but we need to get him to delegate more.

And I'm resigned to listening to people complain about it, so we're practically in the same boat. I'll bring the bourbon.

Every time I hear these complaints, and especially from people like the Canis guys, I get a bad feeling that I know how this will turn out. They're going to complain and complain until something happens and then...well, complain some more. Nobody is going to right this ship overnight. Nor is anybody good going to be keen to coach here when the last coach didn't even get 2 years with a crappy rotation. It's just a no win.

Being a Timberwolves fan was so much more fun with McHale. Sure, the future wasn't as bright, but every man and his dog didn't spend every waking moment nitpicking everything. We came here and had some fun at our own expense and were just plain awesome. Now it's just tedious. I feel like everyday there's a new kneejerk reaction to something and I'm explaining it away with the same things myself and others have been saying all season. It's just getting old, you know?

And I don't mean this as an attack on you so I hope you don't see it as such. I'm just venting and, really, I guess I'm getting tired of playing the devil's advocate. The negativity is wearing on me, as I'd imagine it's wearing on a lot of other posters. And I don't really see any way out of it that will make everyone, or anyone really, happy. To get anything out of this team will take patience, patience it doesn't look like anybody in the Wolves fandom has anymore.