The Best 100 Position Players of the Past 50 Years

[bigboy1234]

001 Barry Bonds
002 Willie Mays
pre-2001 Bonds
003 Hank Aaron
004 Joe Morgan
005 Alex Rodriguez
006 Mike Schmidt
007 Albert Pujols
008 Rickey Henderson
009 Carl Yastrzemski
010 Cal Ripken
011 Wade Boggs
012 Ken Griffey Jr.
013 George Brett
014 Frank Robinson
015 Ernie Banks
016 Jeff Bagwell
017 Ron Santo
018 Rod Carew
019 Al Kaline
020 Robin Yount
021 Reggie Jackson
022 Roberto Clemente
023 Dick Allen
024 Johnny Bench
025 Jim Edmonds
026 Chipper Jones
027 Jim Wynn
028 Frank Thomas
029 Jason Giambi
030 Sammy Sosa
031 Pete Rose
032 Todd Helton
033 Derek Jeter
034 Willie McCovey
035 Andruw Jones
036 Sal Bando
037 Mike Piazza
038 Ryne Sandberg
039 Alan Trammell
040 Gary Carter
041 Brooks Robinson
042 Craig Biggio
043 Scott Rolen
044 Larry Walker
045 Roberto Alomar
046 Jim Thome
047 Edgar Martinez
048 Bobby Grich
049 Carlos Beltran
050 Kenny Lofton
051 Ichiro Suzuki
052 Mark McGwire
053 Barry Larkin
054 Keith Hernandez
055 Vladimir Guerrero
056 Gary Sheffield
057 Tony Gwynn
058 John Olerud
059 Paul Molitor
060 Ken Boyer
061 Willie Stargell
062 Cesar Cedeno
063 Tim Raines
064 Will Clark
065 Eddie Murray
066 Andre Dawson
067 Dale Murphy
068 Harmon Killebrew
069 Rafael Palmeiro
070 Bobby Abreu
071 Nomar Garciaparra
072 Ozzie Smith
073 Manny Ramirez
074 Graig Nettles
075 Joe Mauer
076 Bobby Bonds
077 Darrell Evans
078 Buddy Bell
079 Carlton Fisk
080 Ivan Rodriguez
081 Jim Fregosi
082 Jeff Kent
083 Dave Winfield
084 Billy Williams
085 Lou Whitaker
086 Reggie Smith
087 Vada Pinson
088 Willie Davis
089 Rocky Colavito
090 Chuck Knoblauch
091 Robin Ventura
092 Norm Cash
093 Fred Lynn
094 Joe Torre
095 Chase Utley
096 Lance Berkman
097 Tony Oliva
098 Dwight Evans
099 Roy White
100 Adrian Beltre

Didn't include Mantle, Mathews and Snider because I used a cutoff of if played more after 1960 or before and they played more before. Didn't try to evaluate the steroid guys, I just placed them how they performed, you can knock them however you want to from there. As I noted I would have pre-2001 Bonds 2nd and not 1st if you want to just disregard everything he did 2001 and after. I'm a peak kind of guy, really doesn't matter to me if you stuck around 8 years and you were an average player. And obviously the guys who are still active will be moving up, I made it in the mind if this is it for everyone. Nothing is set in stone, just something I through together with the Hall of Fame talk.

What's crazy? What would be your top 10? Etc.

[Dirty Water]

It would be easy for me to sit here and bash and nitpick. But given your criteria I think you did a pretty good job.

EDIT: I think when all is said and done Ichiro and Joe Mauer will be a lot higher on the list. And guys like Prince Fielder and Ryan Howard would have to make it right? Not sure if those guys will play more in the next 50 years versus this 50 years. However you're working this list, I guess you need about 10 more years of retrospect.

[bigboy1234]

Oh yeah, it's amazing Mauer is where he is really. If he has two more 7-8 win seasons, which he already has a couple of, that alone puts him right around 30.

Fielder, he'd need a lot. There are other young guys like Hanley, Wright, Cabrera, Sizemore that are closer. I would doubt Howard ever making it. Ichiro it would be hard to get above 40 really.

And bash and nitpick away, I don't mind hearing others thoughts.

[sunshinekids99]

Kind of surprised where Griffey is on the list, I just don't see him being a worse player than Yaz.

Yaz had his 4 or so dominate years, but overall I think he's a greatly overrated player. If we are talking peak I'm with you, but I'll take Griffey in the 91 to 99 range over Yaz.

Manny Ramirez seems low on the list to me. I'm sure defense plays a role in that, but if Edgar Martinez is at 47 I just don't see Manny being in the 70's.

I also disagree with Brooks Robinson great defender no doubt about that, but an average batter. He should be much lower IMO.

Overall I think you did a great job, just not sure I value defense as much as you do.

If I was doing a top 10 and mind you I'm doing this very quickly I would go.

1. Mays
2. Bonds
3. Rodriguez
4. Pujols
5. Aaron
6. Henderson
7. Griffey
8. Bench
9. Schmidt
10. Robinson

[Dirty Water]

True, but what Ichiro has done so far has been historic. He could get to 3000 hits even after being a pro overseas for his first what? 8 years? I know total hits is a longevity stat more than a real measure of his worth but could you imagine Ichiro on say... the Yankees lineup? They would score so many runs.

[aggo]

if you're a peak guy how is manny so low?
beltran is wayyyyyyyyy too high
larry walker too low, that man was a hitter ahead of his time
vlad way too low
giambi a bit too high
kent wayyyyy too low. Kent was a METRIC for a decade.
alomar, chipper too low. bagwell higher than those 2 guys?? cmon son
i personally wouldnt put arod below morgan.
nor would i have andruw jones in the mid 30s AHEAD of a player like piazza, who is about right imo in terms of where he "should" be in a top 100 over 50 years.

[bigboy1234]

Because Manny's defense is quite bad. He really only had one MVP level season.

The disagreement with Alomar probably stems from me not really thinking he was a GG caliber fielder like a lot of people do.

Giambi is so high because his peak was crazy good. Like I said I can understand if you disregard him because of the steroids thing, but I didn't try measure that.

Andruw's bat isn't great at all, but his defense on the other hand was godly. Hard to measure for sure, but I'll stick by it.

Beltran is in my opinion quite underrated in general and a great all-around player.

Think I may do a just pure hitting best 25 of the past 50 seasons and see how different that is.

[lpsevier]

Great list, the only one that stuck out to me on my first pass through was Beltran, but I'm probably pretty biased against him anyway as a Braves fan and giving to much thought into his injuries.

[bigboy1234]

Unbiased list, taking Sean Smith's WAR (the one that is on bb-ref) and getting rid of all seasons under 5 WAR, making a Wins Above All-Star WAAS list:

001 71.2 Barry Bonds
002 60.6 Willie Mays
003 44.9 Hank Aaron
44.2 pre-2001 Bonds
004 35.2 Mike Schmidt
005 33.8 Albert Pujols
006 32.1 Alex Rodriguez
007 28.1 Joe Morgan
008 28.0 Rickey Henderson
009 22.5 Wade Boggs
010 19.3 Frank Robinson
011 19.2 Cal Ripken
012 18.8 Ken Griffey Jr.
013 18.4 Ernie Banks
014 18.1 George Brett
015 17.6 Carl Yastrzemski
016 16.5 Ron Santo
017 16.0 Jeff Bagwell
018 15.7 Roberto Clemente
019 14.8 Rod Carew
020 14.0 Al Kaline
021 13.9 Dick Allen
022 13.7 Jim Edmonds
023 13.3 Robin Yount
024 13.0 Reggie Jackson
025 12.6 Frank Thomas
026 12.4 Jim Wynn
027 12.3 Jason Giambi
028 12.1 Chipper Jones
029 11.9 Andruw Jones
030 11.7 Todd Helton
031 11.1 Willie McCovey
032 10.8 Johnny Bench
033 10.5 Sal Bando
034 10.4 Nomar Garciaparra
035 10.4 Gary Carter
036 10.3 Ryne Sandberg
037 10.2 Sammy Sosa
038 10.1 Mike Piazza
039 9.9 Pete Rose
040 9.7 Derek Jeter
041 9.4 Alan Trammell
042 9.2 Joe Mauer
043 8.9 Carlos Beltran
044 8.9 Bobby Grich
045 8.7 Dale Murphy
046 8.5 Edgar Martinez
047 8.5 Brooks Robinson
048 8.4 Roberto Alomar
049 8.2 Ichiro Suzuki
050 8.1 Larry Walker
051 8.1 Craig Biggio
052 8.0 Jim Thome
053 7.8 Chase Utley
054 7.6 Mark McGwire
055 7.6 Scott Rolen
056 7.5 Cesar Cedeno
057 7.4 Andre Dawson
058 7.3 Kenny Lofton
059 7.3 Willie Stargell
060 7.2 Ken Boyer
061 7.2 Vladimir Guerrero
062 7.2 John Olerud
063 7.1 Barry Larkin
064 6.8 Keith Hernandez
065 6.7 Chuck Knoblauch
066 6.7 Tim Raines
067 6.7 Tony Gwynn
068 6.6 Paul Molitor
069 6.5 Will Clark
070 6.5 Gary Sheffield
071 6.4 Bret Boone
072 6.3 Dave Parker
073 6.2 Jim Fregosi
074 6.2 Adrian Beltre
075 5.9 Tony Oliva
076 5.8 Rocky Colavito
077 5.8 Eddie Murray
078 5.8 Darrell Evans
079 5.7 Lance Berkman
080 5.6 Buddy Bell
081 5.6 Hanley Ramirez
082 5.5 Fred Lynn
083 5.5 Harmon Killebrew
084 5.3 Don Mattingly
085 5.3 Norm Cash
086 5.2 Bobby Abreu
087 5.2 Vada Pinson
088 5.1 Rafael Palmeiro
089 5.1 Carlton Fisk
090 5.0 Albert Belle
091 5.0 Willie Wilson
092 4.9 Shawn Green
093 4.9 Roy White
094 4.9 Lenny Dykstra
095 4.9 Bobby Murcer
096 4.9 Bobby Bonds
097 4.9 Ozzie Smith
098 4.8 Graig Nettles
099 4.8 Billy Williams
100 4.7 Edgardo Alfonzo

Probably kind of breaks at the end, because the rarity of it. May be better to put the 5 down to 4 WAR. But there are four players in the top 26 that aren't in the HOF that have been/are eligible. And one of them in Jimmy Wynn was one and done. Bad hall of fame voters, bad.

[studcrackers]

what the f*ck is a jim wynn? no way is a jim wynn above frank thomas

also pudge is way to low

[bigboy1234]

A great player? Thomas is actually the 2nd best hitter in the past 50 years, although he will most likely be passed by Pujols who is currently 3rd and will likely tie Thomas as a hitter with 2 more seasons, but there is more to baseball than just hitting.

A lot of catchers may be "undervalued" as typically they don't play as much as other positions, so that may be a reason why people would disagree with the catchers amongst the rest in general.

[sunshinekids99]

what the f*ck is a jim wynn? no way is a jim wynn above frank thomas

also pudge is way to low

There in lies the issues I have with this list. I don't care how good of a fielder Jim Wynn was back in the 60's. There is nobody that convince me that I would rather have him on my team than Frank Thomas.

[bigboy1234]

Wynn wasn't even that great of a fielder, what he was though was an outfielder. Something Thomas could never do and if he did would cost his team a crazy amount of runs.

What's weird is hearing the complete opposite sides of the spectrum in one post. Pudge is the ultimate defensive player while Frank is the ultimate non-defensive player. One thing is saying I value defense too much, then the next too little.

I mean Frank Thomas' bat is better than Willie Mays if you want to just look at that.

Albert Belle, Carlos Delgado, Todd Helton then make the list and are top 30 players.

[Curmudgeon]

Where's Bernie Williams? Do you really think Lenny Dykstra, Chase Utley and Roy White were better than Bernie? Where is Cano?

Also, the rankings are FUBAR, but that's a separate issue.

[bigboy1234]

Bernie would have made it, but I unlike most don't think he was a good defensive CF. I could definitely see if someone else liked him more than White or Dykstra. Hell he just missed making this. With Bernie it also doesn't help in 2 of his 3 highest OPS+ years he didn't play over 130 games.

Cano? Really? You just complained about Utley being at 95 pretty much so you're implying Cano has been greater than Utley which is laughable.

But yes, I'm sure my rankings suck. Needs more Yankees for sure, then it would acceptable at least. Oh hey, lets see yours!

[Curmudgeon]

Did you take post season performance into account? Bernie williams played in 12 ALDS, 7 ALCS and 6 WS, and until 2005 he was the best postseason hitter on some very good Yankee teams. As for Cano, he's better right now than any of the second basemen on your list except Joe Morgan (and Rod Carew, who played more first base), and he turns the DP better than Mazeroski ever did.

Sure, they're Yankees, but IMHO players from teams that win consistently deserve extra consideration. Youkilis should be on the list, and possibly Pedroia. Where's Evan Longoria? He's way better than Buddy Bell ever was. What about Josh Hamilton? Do you mean to say you wouldn't trade Adrian Beltre or Chase Utley in their primes for Josh Hamilton?

[Dirty Water]

Sure, they're Yankees, but IMHO players from teams that win consistently deserve extra consideration. Youkilis should be on the list, and possibly Pedroia. Where's Evan Longoria? He's way better than Buddy Bell ever was. What about Josh Hamilton? Do you mean to say you wouldn't trade Adrian Beltre or Chase Utley in their primes for Josh Hamilton?

From my understanding it is best players from past 50 years 1960-2010. Pedroia started his MLB career in 07, Youkilis was back and forth between minors and majors from about 03 to 06. I think the idea was to just include players that will end up playing the majority of their careers in that 50 year span. Obviously guys like Longoria and Hamilton have just emerged over the last few years.

[Da Schwab]

Sure, they're Yankees, but IMHO players from teams that win consistently deserve extra consideration. Youkilis should be on the list, and possibly Pedroia. Where's Evan Longoria? He's way better than Buddy Bell ever was. What about Josh Hamilton? Do you mean to say you wouldn't trade Adrian Beltre or Chase Utley in their primes for Josh Hamilton?

If any GM traded Beltre or Utley whilst in their prime for Josh Hamilton, they'd be run out of the city.

[Curmudgeon]

Sure, they're Yankees, but IMHO players from teams that win consistently deserve extra consideration. Youkilis should be on the list, and possibly Pedroia. Where's Evan Longoria? He's way better than Buddy Bell ever was. What about Josh Hamilton? Do you mean to say you wouldn't trade Adrian Beltre or Chase Utley in their primes for Josh Hamilton?

If any GM traded Beltre or Utley whilst in their prime for Josh Hamilton, they'd be run out of the city.

Oh please. Hamilton is a 5 tool player, maybe the best player in the AL right now. If the fans ran a GM out of town for making that deal, then they're dumb fans.

[bigboy1234]

Beltre is weird because he has one just absolutely amazing season and his 2nd best season just came in 2010, but he is an amazing defensive 3B which gets underrated. His non-consistency is a little off putting to be honest.

But yes, Chase Utley over Hamilton without thinking twice, Utley has had 5 great seasons compared to Hamilton's 2. I'm not even sure how that is a question. Utley is also a great defensive 2B.

And no, no post-season was taken into account. Don't really feel like that is fair. And damn, Bernie was bad in World Series appearances. Guess he should be even lower for choking on the biggest stage huh.

Cano is not better than Utley, I'm not sure how one can even come to that conclusion. Or Biggio. Or Alomar. Or Grich. Or Kent. Or Knoblauch. He may jump a handful of them in a few years, he may not. As of now he has one full season over an 122 OPS+.