Time To Play Our Hand: Deal or No Deal?

[Bassman]

OK, I've seen enough of the Silas era and how our players are reacting/responding. Now's the time for serious evaluation and direction. Questions to ask:

1. Will this group of players get us back into the playoffs this year? While the East remains very weak, this squad will be straining to sneak into the post season, even assuming healthy players the remainder of the year. If MJ is determined to get there, we're an arrow short in the quiver.

2. If a deal can be made, what does that trade need to realistically be? We need a dependable scorer/shooter more than anything else, followed by a true 5. It wouldn't hurt to have a larger starting PG but DJ is likely here to stay. I would love to trade Crash and a player to Portland for Wesley Matthews and Przybilla, but that's not likely to happen. Or send Jax to Memphis for Mayo and Thabeet (especially with Diop going down, that's an extra big we need here). While that likely just keeps us even with where we are, it's more of a deal for the future.

3. Given the prospects for this group, and the trade picture developing, do we focus on youth and picks, dealing away the key pieces for the future? This is still the method I prefer. Crash and Jax need to be dealt for younger players and picks. Deal Diaw for a cheap PF and an expiring. Hang onto Nazr for space or use him as part of a deal to get a major foundational player for the future of the team.

[dmutombo321]

You know where I stand on this. Its entirely possible they again make a trade or two that can propel them back to the 8th seed of the playoffs at the expense of the future.

But if they ever hope to actually advance in the playoffs or eventually contend, they need to take this opportunity to start from scratch.

The first thing needed is to get Wallace healthy enough where he can return and rattle off some 24/12/4 type games to buttress his trade value before the February deadline - because right now its in the gutter.

As I mentioned a couple days ago, I would be elated if Jax could be turned into Mayo/Thabeet. But I just cant see Memphis giving that any consideration with Jax's age and contract. If the Griz where firmly in the playoff mix and competing for home court advantage, I could maybe envision some remote scenario where they would take a flyer on him to put them over the top. But save for something like that, a team rarely ever trades young/cheap/promising for old/expensive/mutliple years remaing for only a slight improvement. That said, if Memphis is crazy enough to do it, then its a no-brainer.

No rebuilding team (i.e. Denver after Melo departs, Washington, etc) is likely to have much interest in Wallace who will be turning 29 years old. However, playoff teams who would otherwise be on the cusp of going deep save for a key wing would likely be very interested (provided he can get healthy for us and get a few big games under his belt).

Houston fits the bill perfectly. They assembled an expensive team with the talent to make a deep run in the playoffs but then lost Yao again for the year. Now, without a true center on the entire roster save from ancient Brad Miller (who can still contribute but only in limited minutes) and with Battier starting to slow down, they find themselves two games out of the final playoff spot in the west.

I'm certain they would have interest in Wallace/Nazr/Carroll /Livingston (or DJ) in exchange for Yao's expiring and some combonation of Twill (who will never see the light of day there with Kmart/Lee/Budinger in front of him), Lowry and either Jordan Hill (who they have been playing out of position at center) or Patterson.

Milwaukee could be another possibility for either Jackson or Wallace. They occupy the 8th seed in the east but are weak the the 3, starting Mbah a Moute and CDR (Maggs has been a huge disappointment for them). They have Redd's huge expiring.

If Charlotte would play their cards right, the present environment is such that this could be a prime opportunity for them to clear massive salary and accumulate some young talent and/or picks.

People just have to remember that rebuilding doesnt happen overnight and you have to get bad before you can accumulate the talent necessary to be great.

[Fred Williamson]

I like Silas and how our team is performing in the last few games, but even if we make the playoffs we are going to get our asses kicked once again in the first round. And if not, we will end up with the 10th spot or somewhere in that range and with another late lottery pick.

so yes, I'm still on the "blow this mess up" bandwagon

[Bassman]

You know where I stand on this. Its entirely possible they again make a trade or two that can propel them back to the 8th seed of the playoffs at the expense of the future.

But if they ever hope to actually advance in the playoffs or eventually contend, they need to take this opportunity to start from scratch.

Houston fits the bill perfectly. They assembled an expensive team with the talent to make a deep run in the playoffs but then lost Yao again for the year. Now, without a true center on the entire roster save from ancient Brad Miller (who can still contribute but only in limited minutes) and with Battier starting to slow down, they find themselves two games out of the final playoff spot in the west.

I'm certain they would have interest in Wallace/Nazr/Carroll /Livingston (or DJ) in exchange for Yao's expiring and some combonation of Twill (who will never see the light of day there with Kmart/Lee/Budinger in front of him), Lowry and either Jordan Hill (who they have been playing out of position at center) or Patterson.

People just have to remember that rebuilding doesnt happen overnight and you have to get bad before you can accumulate the talent necessary to be great.

Yes the Houston idea seems most plausable, and would help us now and into the future. Don't believe they'd include Lowry in the deal; try this: Crash, Diaw, Nazr and Najera for Yao, Hill, T-Will and Brooks (+ a pick). Then send Jax & Henderson to Memphis for Thabeet and Mayo. Lineup would look like this:

PG - DJ, Brooks
SG - Mayo, Livingston, Carroll
SF - T-Will, UPS
PF - Tyrus, Hill, McBrick
C - Kwame, Thabeet

[Rich4114]

we'd be in good long term position if we were able to move some of these contracts and pick up draft picks in the process. Multiple first rounders can be turned into a star - see Chris Paul opportunity in 2005.

If we could also end up with guys like Mayo and Brooks on the roster who could be part of the long term bigger picture - then bravo. If we can work the roster out that way and finally hit the right players in the draft then it might not even be that long before we're competing seriously.

[Tupik]

I like Silas and how our team is performing in the last few games, but even if we make the playoffs we are going to get our asses kicked once again in the first round. And if not, we will end up with the 10th spot or somewhere in that range and with another late lottery pick.

so yes, I'm still on the "blow this mess up" bandwagon

Exactly ;y thoughts. I could probably have quoted Dmutombo as well as he always makes some great points, but it was tl;dr

[thruthefire]

"Boo-Ray"

[GrapeApe]

You know where I stand on this. Its entirely possible they again make a trade or two that can propel them back to the 8th seed of the playoffs at the expense of the future.

But if they ever hope to actually advance in the playoffs or eventually contend, they need to take this opportunity to start from scratch.

Houston fits the bill perfectly. They assembled an expensive team with the talent to make a deep run in the playoffs but then lost Yao again for the year. Now, without a true center on the entire roster save from ancient Brad Miller (who can still contribute but only in limited minutes) and with Battier starting to slow down, they find themselves two games out of the final playoff spot in the west.

I'm certain they would have interest in Wallace/Nazr/Carroll /Livingston (or DJ) in exchange for Yao's expiring and some combonation of Twill (who will never see the light of day there with Kmart/Lee/Budinger in front of him), Lowry and either Jordan Hill (who they have been playing out of position at center) or Patterson.

People just have to remember that rebuilding doesnt happen overnight and you have to get bad before you can accumulate the talent necessary to be great.

Yes the Houston idea seems most plausable, and would help us now and into the future. Don't believe they'd include Lowry in the deal; try this: Crash, Diaw, Nazr and Najera for Yao, Hill, T-Will and Brooks (+ a pick). Then send Jax & Henderson to Memphis for Thabeet and Mayo. Lineup would look like this:

PG - DJ, Brooks
SG - Mayo, Livingston, Carroll
SF - T-Will, UPS
PF - Tyrus, Hill, McBrick
C - Kwame, Thabeet

And Houston's line up looks like:

PG - Nobody.

I will stop there. From what I have read and it could well be bogus Houston plans to resign Yao and if they don't they can probably do better. The problem is your trade does nothing to solve Houston's problems.

On the other hand, I don't think the Memphis idea is a bad one. Jackson is a better defender than Mayo and they could be ready to give up on Thabeet. On the other other hand, that is one small back court Charlotte would be rolling out.

[dmutombo321]

^ Houston has two quality PGs in Brooks and Lowry.

Provided they are getting a quality backup as a throw-in in a trade, one of them is expendable.

[Bassman]

Perhaps we could send Memphis Jax and UPS for Thabeet and Mayo. I'm starting to think I'd like to have Henderson continue developing here. He will never be good enough to start, but as a back up to the 2 and 3, and a defensive stopper, he'd serve a nice role.

Derrick Brown is not exhibiting advancement here. He needs a change, just as Thabeet does. Both are projects, both have potential.

[#1 pick]

If NJ fails to get Melo, Crash and etc. for Melo and Harrington (no ext.)

[LarsV8]

I'm certain they would have interest in Wallace/Nazr/Carroll /Livingston (or DJ) in exchange for Yao's expiring and some combonation of Twill (who will never see the light of day there with Kmart/Lee/Budinger in front of him), Lowry and either Jordan Hill (who they have been playing out of position at center) or Patterson.

We would not have interest in that.

Carroll and Livingston is us just eating salary for players who would never play.

Nazr would see little to no time.

Wallace is nice, but not worth taking on tons of salary, a quality rotation player, tons of money, and two prospects.

[freakon0mics]

I've been an advocate for this team to get Mayo. The situation just seems right after the altercation he had with Tony Allen. I think the Grizzlies feel the same way that a change of scenery is needed for him. I think a scenario of Jax/Brown for Mayo/Thabeet could work. They look like they need a player like Jax to get them going.

[captaincrunk]

I've been an advocate for this team to get Mayo. The situation just seems right after the altercation he had with Tony Allen. I think the Grizzlies feel the same way that a change of scenery is needed for him. I think a scenario of Jax/Brown for Mayo/Thabeet could work. They look like they need a player like Jax to get them going.

Mayo seems like bad news. His dad assaults a cop, he tries to punch out Tony Allen (who you KNOW could kick some serious ass). I think the guy might be more infamous than Jax before he's done if he can get an ego.

[Diop]

Don't Memphis want cap space for next year when they are resigning Gasol and possibly ZBo.

So that makes Jax hard to take back.

The only decent expiring we have is Nazr. Nazr and Brown for Mayo, Thabeet works according to the trade machine, but I don't think thats enough to get Mayo. Does save them over 8 mill next year though.

Nazr and Hendo also works.

[captaincrunk]

Don't Memphis want cap space for next year when they are resigning Gasol and possibly ZBo.

So that makes Jax hard to take back.

The only decent expiring we have is Nazr. Nazr and Brown for Mayo, Thabeet works according to the trade machine, but I don't think thats enough to get Mayo. Does save them over 8 mill next year though.

Nazr and Hendo also works.

I think they let Zbo go.

[Diop]

I'm not certain. He has done well with them and been a good team presence.
They don't really have another Pf waiting to take over the starting spot.

I guess it matters on how much ZBo can get this offseason and who else they can draft or sign.

Either way, even after cutting ZBo's contract they are over the cap, so I think they would still be interested in cutting some salary.

[ZackAttack23]

How about:
Charlotte gets Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Fransisco Garcia, and Carl Landry
Clippers get Stephen Jackson, Shaun Livingston, Samuel Dalembert, Matt Carroll
Sacramento gets Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, and Clippers 2012 1st rd pick top 15 (protected)

After trade Clippers cut Jarron Collins and Brian Cook

Charlotte

C: Chris Kaman, Kwame Brown
PF: Carl Landry, Tyrus Thomas, Eduardo Najera
SF: Gerald Wallace, Derrick Brown, Dominic McGuire
SG: Gerald Henderson, Fransisco Garcia
PG: D.J. Augustin, Baron Davis, Sherron Collins

Clippers

C: Samuel Dalembert, DeAndre Jordan
PF: Blake Griffin, Ike Diogu, Craig Smith
SF: Stephen Jackson, Ryan Gomes, Al-Farouq Aminu
SG: Eric Gordon, Rasual Butler, Willie Warren, Matt Carroll
PG: Eric Bledsoe, Shaun Livingston, Randy Foye

Sacramento

C: Nazr Mohammed, DeMarcus Cousins, Hassan Whiteside
PF: Boris Diaw, Jason Thompson, Darnell Jackson
SF: Omri Casspi, Donte Greene
SG: Tyreke Evans, Luther Head
PG: Beno Udrih, Pooh Jeter

[Marvel]

^ Switch Kaman with Jordan

My bet is Z-Bo lands in Detroit next season.

[ZackAttack23]

We should get in on the deal with NJ/DEN/DET to get Petro. Our front court depth is hurting.