A Minne (mini) Roster Overhaul

[Klomp]

Trade 1:

Wes Johnson and Nikola Pekovic to PHI for Andre Iguodala

Trade 2:

How about ....

Flynn to Toronto

Miami 1st + Utah 1st to New York

Bayless + Randolph to Minnesota

New Depth Chart
Ridnour / Bayless (Rubio)
Iguodala / Brewer / Ellington
Beasley / Webster / Hayward
Love / Tolliver
Milicic / Randolph / Koufus

[Piecake]

I can dig it

[AQuintus]

Trade 1: Wes Johnson and Nikola Pekovic to PHI for Andre Iguodala

I wouldn't do this unless some kind of protected 1st is also coming back to us. Otherwise I like it.

[moss_is_1]

I would be okay with that. How much capspace would we have after that? enough to make a legit run at Gasol/Oden this offseason?

[Foye]

Here's what I thought of:

NY in: UTAH 1st, Ridnour
NY out: Randolph, Douglas

PHI in: Johnson, Telfair, Pekovic
PHI out: Iggy

MN in: Iggy, Randolph, Douglas
MN out: Johnson, Telfair, Pekovic, Ridnour, Utah 1st

I would hate to part with Johnson for Iggy though.

[The J Rocka]

Absolutely. Lets get it done, all of them.

I like Snipes a lot but it's not fair that we are making him play the 2 when clearly he needs to be a 3 and he shouldn't be coming off the bench. We need a 2 guard with defense along with ball handling skills, Iggy is our guy. I don't care how much he makes because if we don't make a move soon, that Big Al trade was worthless.

I also like Flynn. I still think he's not ready/healthy but lets face it, Rubio was always the point guard of the future here. Flynn was just a band aid which makes me mad that we picked him for that when we could've had Derozan. If we can get a young solid backup in Bayless & a nice potential filled young PF/C, we gotta do what's best for our team and that trade makes our roster better.

[Fire Mchale]

I would consider this if Trade 2 was 100% going to happen. I will admit that the cost of the #4 pick in a draft (whether it's working out wonderfully or not) is a heavy price to pay for Iguodala and his contract, but failing to use our cap space this season will be a serious setback and this may be the only way we can ultimately use it.

[younggunsmn]

Send Speights back to us for C depth in the 1st deal and I'm in.
We all know the Sophomore Curse is going to savage one of Johnsons's knees next year anyway.

The big IF is: Will Iguodala be healthy long term and how serious is the achilles problem? IF he comes back healthy we get a helluva player on both sides of the ball. This guy has hovered around 5 assists per game the last few years and that could really help us. He was simply awesome during the olympics this summer.

Might as well trade Wes while he has value and before he turns into the latest model version of mccants/foye/brewer/flynn. When you lose your starting spot to a 36% shooting Brewer that's a bad sign.

[Klomp]

The big IF is: Will Iguodala be healthy long term and how serious is the achilles problem?

Well, are you encoraged or worried about the fact that this injury has kept him out of more games (7) than he's missed in his entire career up to this point (6)?

[shangrila]

The big IF is: Will Iguodala be healthy long term and how serious is the achilles problem?

Well, are you encoraged or worried about the fact that this injury has kept him out of more games (7) than he's missed in his entire career up to this point (6)?

It's the first year he's played international ball in the summer, isn't it?

[younggunsmn]

The big IF is: Will Iguodala be healthy long term and how serious is the achilles problem?

Well, are you encoraged or worried about the fact that this injury has kept him out of more games than he's missed in his entire career up to this point?

I'm encouraged he has been pretty injury free until this year. I'm encouraged they've been resting him rather than making him play through it (bodes well for a trade). I'm encouraged it is not a chronic knee problem like roy/kobe/granger. I'm encouraged that adding a fellow olympian will make Love want to stay (and win) here long term.

He does have a lot of "basketball miles" on him, but he'll only be 30 at the end of his contract.

In my opinion he's a much better defender than Brewer and a highly effective offensive player (while not a deadly outside shooter). Probably the biggest upgrade this team could reasonably make in one trade. His defense and transition game were amazing during the Olympics. He and Rubio could give other teams fits.

I'd much rather give up Webster or Flynn, cap space + picks, but if it takes Johnson so be it. He has a long, long way to go to ever be as good as Iguodala. I really can't see us ever making a move with more impact either with our cap space or through FA. Plus the time is definitely right to buy.

I used to be an anti-Iggy guy, but I've changed my mind.

[horaceworthy]

I'd love Iggy if not for the salary. Tremendous defender, but that's a lot of money for someone that's already shown some signs of slippage.

[younggunsmn]

I'd love Iggy if not for the salary. Tremendous defender, but that's a lot of money for someone that's already shown some signs of slippage.

I don't like his salary either, every rose has a thorn I guess or some other bad cliche...
If you've got a better "singular move" I'm all ears. If we move Johnson and Pek and add Iggy we can keep everyone over the life of Iggy's deal, extend Love and Beasley, and still stay under the luxury tax threshold in 2012 and 2013. We can save even more by dumping Flynn for a draft pick or decent backup C, or cutting Webster in 2012.

My Iggy Spreadsheet:
2011-12 Salary On Books Max Cap Room Lux Tax Number
1 Andre Iguodala 13,351,750 13,351,750 13,351,750
2 Michael Beasley 6,262,347 6,262,347 6,262,347 Team Option (Excercised)
3 Martell Webster 5,256,000 5,256,000 5,256,000
4 Darko Milicic 4,779,125 4,779,125 4,779,125
5 Kevin Love 4,609,701 4,609,701 4,609,701 Team Option (Excercised)
6 Luke Ridnour 3,680,000 3,680,000 3,680,000
7 Johnny Flynn 3,414,720 3,414,720 3,414,720
8 Ricky Rubio 2,900,100 2,900,100 3,480,120 Team Option (Excercised)
9 Mareese Speights 2,721,255 2,721,255 2,721,255
10 Kosta Koufos 2,203,792 2,203,792 2,203,792 Team Option (Excercised)
11 Anthony Tolliver 2,050,000 2,050,000 2,050,000
12 Wayne Ellington 1,154,040 1,154,040 1,154,040 Team Option (Excercised)
13 Lazar Hayward 1,097,520 1,097,520 1,097,520
14 #1 Pick (MN) 2,900,100 2,900,100 3,480,120 Estimated (5th overall)
15 #1 Pick (UTAH) 993,700 993,700 1,192,440 Estimated (24th overall)
Total Salary 57,374,150 57,374,150 58,732,930
Cap Room 669,850 669,850 -688,930
13,351,750

2012-13 Salary On Books Max Cap Room Lux Tax Number
1 Andre Iguodala 14,718,250 14,718,250 14,718,250
2 Michael Beasley 12,000,000 8,172,363 12,000,000 RFA tender, Est. Extension
3 Kevin Love 12,000,000 6,112,403 12,000,000 RFA tender, Est. Extension
4 Martell Webster 5,712,000 5,712,000 5,712,000 600k Guaranteed
5 Darko Milicic 5,233,250 5,233,250 5,233,250
6 Luke Ridnour 4,000,000 4,000,000 4,000,000
7 Johnny Flynn 4,329,865 4,329,865 4,329,865 Team Option
8 Ricky Rubio 3,741,120 3,741,120 3,741,120
9 2011 #1 Pick (MN) 3,741,120 3,741,120 3,741,120 Estimated (5th overall)
10 2011 #1 Pick (UT) 1,281,840 1,281,840 1,281,840 Estimated (24th overall)
11 2012 #1 Pick (MEM) 1,566,900 1,566,900 1,880,280 Estimated (14th overall)
12 Cap Hold 490,120 490,120 490,120
13 Cap Hold 490,120 490,120 490,120
69,304,585 59,589,351 69,617,965

2013-14 Salary On Books Max Cap Room Lux Tax Number
1 Andre Iguodala 15,904,750 15,904,750 15,904,750 Player Option
2 Kevin Love 13,000,000 13,000,000 13,000,000 Estimated Extension
3 Michael Beasley 13,000,000 13,000,000 13,000,000 Estimated Extension
4 Darko Milicic 5,687,375 5,687,375 5,687,375 Guaranteed for 2,000,000
5 Luke Ridnour 4,320,000 4,320,000 4,320,000
6 Ricky Rubio 4,002,120 4,002,120 4,002,120 Team Option
7 2011 #1 Pick (MN) 4,002,120 4,002,120 4,002,120 Team Option
8 2011 #1 Pick (UT) 1,371,360 490,120 490,120 Team Option
9 2012 #1 Pick (MEM) 2,162,280 2,162,280 2,162,280 Estimated (14th overall)
10 2013 #1 Pick (MN) 877,300 1,052,760 1,052,760 Estimated (30th overall, ha ha)
11 Johnny Flynn 5,776,040 490,120 490,120 RFA tender
12 Martell Webster 490,120 490,120 490,120 UFA
13 Cap Hold 490,120 490,120 490,120
71,083,585 65,091,885 65,091,885

[younggunsmn]

For what it's worth, If the cap stays the same we will only have about 8 mil in 2011 cap without a deal, and be capped out in 2012 and 2013 anyway.

[horaceworthy]

I'd love Iggy if not for the salary. Tremendous defender, but that's a lot of money for someone that's already shown some signs of slippage.

I wouldn't argue he's overpaid.
If you've got a better "singular move" I'm all ears. If we move Johnson and Pek and add Iggy we can keep everyone over the life of Iggy's deal, extend Love and Beasley, and still stay under the luxury tax threshold in 2012 and 2013. We can save even more by dumping Flynn for a draft pick or decent backup C, or cutting Webster in 2012.

I think Flynn-centric deal for Sideshow Bob would have been a better move, but that's obviously off the table. I'd also prefer Monta to Iggy, but I don't know how available he is.

I don't have a better singular move, I just think that $12-16M per over the life of his contract is way too risky considering his effectiveness has dropped the last couple years. It requires more patience, but I see keeping Wes as the better move.

I'd rather see them use the cap to pick up future assets. If a deal that makes the team better comes along involving any of Webster/Brewer/Telfair/Flynn/Koufos/Pekovic/Utah 1st/Ellington/Lazar, then fantastic.

[Klomp]

I just think that $12-16M per over the life of his contract is way too risky considering his effectiveness has dropped the last couple years.

His scoring may be down, but his rebounds and assists are up. And he showed his summer that he's still got his defense. We don't need him to be a 25 point scorer.

He may be overpaid, but sometimes you have to pay a little more to get what we really need.

By the way, this is a really good article on AI.
http://www.csnphilly.com/12/14/10/Iguod ... lynam.html

Every team likes to have a go-to guy who can ensure victory when time is winding down.

Since the departure of the other A.I in 2006, this city has been waiting for Andre Iguodala to take over the reigns of GTG (go-to guy). Most outsiders say it never happened and never will.

Head coach Doug Collins disagrees.

“I think sometimes we view a go-to guy as a guy who is going to score the basket,” Collins said. “But the go-to guys are the John Stocktons. A go-to guy is a guy who can make a play for himself or for somebody else.”

Andre Iguodala’s definition of GTG goes even a step further.

“I think it is someone who when a team needs to get a stop or make a play to get out of a drought,” Iguodala explained. “When a bucket is needed he either scores it or creates for someone else.”

Iguodala likes to say he doesn’t care what people say about him, and he puts on a stoic face whenever he is asked if he is cognizant of the criticisms people have about his game. His personality would not qualify as dynamic and his monotone postgame comments do little to alter the perception that he is not passionate enough.

The question is, does No. 9, now in his seventh season in Philadelphia, feel misunderstood in regards to being a go-to guy?

“It depends on who you are asking,” he said diplomatically. “Most people who know basketball know that so I don’t really worry about it. My peers who guard me know. Outside of that clearly I am misunderstood. People just don’t see different parts of the game. I argued with a guy that Michael Jordan was the best player in the world, so if you can’t see that, then you can’t argue with other people.”

Without spelling it out, Iguodala was clear that he believes he is the man to have the ball in the guts of a game. It is an essential characteristic of being a GTG. But unlike popular belief, wanting the ball at the end of a game does not go hand in hand with being the guy who has attempted the most shots throughout or should take the final shot.

[horaceworthy]

His scoring may be down, but his rebounds and assists are up. And he showed his summer that he's still got his defense. We don't need him to be a 25 point scorer.

He may be overpaid, but sometimes you have to pay a little more to get what we really need.

He's scoring less and doing it less effectively. Both his FGA around the rim and his FG% there, along with the rate he gets to the FT line, have dropped the last couple years. His rebound rate is roughly the same, but you're right that his rate of assists is up.

He's not just less prolific than he's been in the past, he's also less effective, which is concerning when the amount of money attached to him is so significant.

[Krapinsky]

His scoring may be down, but his rebounds and assists are up. And he showed his summer that he's still got his defense. We don't need him to be a 25 point scorer.

He may be overpaid, but sometimes you have to pay a little more to get what we really need.

He's scoring less and doing it less effectively. Both his FGA around the rim and his FG% there, along with the rate he gets to the FT line, have dropped the last couple years. His rebound rate is roughly the same, but you're right that his rate of assists is up.

He's not just less prolific than he's been in the past, he's also less effective, which is concerning when the amount of money attached to him is so significant.

Some of that decline coud be attributed to how Phili has changed it's offense a couple times over the years. When they had Miller they ran a lot and Iggy got a lot more easy buckets. Then I believe they replaced Miller with Lou Williams and Jrue Holiday and ran Eddie Jordan's slow grind it out princeton offense. I haven't seen them play this year so I'm not sure what Collins is doing.

[horaceworthy]

While Andre Miller does throw a sweet lob, Philly's pace of play has remained largely unchanged throughout Iggy's tenure there, with the exception of his rookie year.

[shrink]

Trade 1:

Wes Johnson and Nikola Pekovic to PHI for Andre Iguodala

Trade 2:

How about ....

Flynn to Toronto

Miami 1st + Utah 1st to New York

Bayless + Randolph to Minnesota

New Depth Chart
Ridnour / Bayless (Rubio)
Iguodala / Brewer / Ellington
Beasley / Webster / Hayward
Love / Tolliver
Milicic / Randolph / Koufus

For me, Yuck and yuck.

In the first, there's the problem with realism. A team will only trade a top 5 pick in the middle of his first season about once a decade. I'm sorry, but with that salary, Iguodala hardly has "once-a-decade" trade value. Tossing in $5 mil in cap space on top ... and who knows how much money over the next three years .. is just over the top. Iguodala is a good player, but he is not a star, and his best position isn't even SG any more -- it's the place where we want to play Beasley.

As for Trade #2, show of hands here who feel that Anthony Randolph is worth two firsts .. even bad ones?

Worse, even if we wanted to get Randolph, we could do so without giving up Flynn. Telfair and the UTA 1st, or Ridnour and no 1st, seem perfectly acceptable offers, and you hold onto your lottery picked 2nd year guard, seeing if he's got potential instead of selling him when he's trying to overcome his injury.

Look, if you guys want Iguodala, do so using the cap space in a three teamer. Supplement the other team's offer with our minor assets. And don't get Iggy if that's the only talent you're going to get. That's a sure ticket to the middle of the pack .. the worst place in the NBA standings. Figure out how to bring in Iguodala AND another good-but-not-great player, and then cross your fingers for that rare DET synergy that almost never wins championships. Iggy alone does nothing for me, except use up assets and worsen our lottery pick this year. Better yet, finish the season, use the space for other assets, and then reassess then. Grabbing Iguodala now, with half the season in the books, just feels wasteful.