Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[nate33]

Agree with the two posts above. Casspi looks like he might be a decent role playing "3&D" small forward, but one should always discount players who play for teams with such a bad record. If he was so good, the Kings wouldn't suck so bad.

I wouldn't give up much more than a 2nd round pick and an expiring for him. (He's only worth a high 2nd because there's only 2 years left on his rookie deal.) I sure as hell wouldn't absorb Udrih or Garcia.

[Bickerstaff]

Why would SAC do that and what would they want in return? I don't think it would be expirings because Casspi doesn't make that much. I suppose they want some talent in return. We might be able to convince them Blatche is "talent" and do a Blatche + Thorton for Casspi trade. It works in ESPN's trade checker.

Blatche is about 50 times the player as Casspi.

[DMVleGeND]

Blatche is about 50 times the player as Casspi.

+1

[tontoz]

One source with knowledge of Indiana's thinking, however, said this week that the Pacers -- 6-11 and fading since their big November wins over the Heat and Lakers -- have not dismissed every recent proposal that includes Granger. Another source insisted to ESPN.com that the Pacers, although they naturally would be seeking a lot in return, quietly listened to a few Granger pitches last season, as well.

It seems far safer to suggest that the Pacers would make a move before the Feb. 24 trading deadline with one of their expiring contracts, such as Mike Dunleavy or T.J. Ford, but here's another way to put it: Roy Hibbert, despite his own December fade, has emerged as the more untouchable piece in Indiana's eyes than Granger, who is shooting just 41.6 percent from the field, is going to the free throw line just 5.1 times per game as he too often settles for jumpers … and has three pricey years left on his contract after this season valued at $40 million.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... ter-awards

Granger, anyone?

Whoa, now that would be interesting. Not sure what it would take to get him but it would certainly be worth looking into. If the Wiz could make a package giving up this years pick in a weak draft without giving up any of Wall/Young/McGee it is certainly worth considering.

[nate33]

I kinda think we already have our own poor man's Granger in Lewis. I don't see us sacrificing the assets necessary to acquire him when we are already devoting $20M to a guy who plays the same position in a similar manner.

[Hoopalotta]

No, it is I who think you would rather be a jerk than read for comprehension. Fantasy numbers here - but what if Rashard suddenly averaged 35 and 15 over the next 20 games or even the season? Would some team suddenly be interested? No, he won't do that. But what if he was averaging 20 and 10 again like in his prime? Is that enough? That was the crux.

And you suggest that I ignored the lockout. I did not. Do you think they will never play basketball again once they begin the lockout? Do you think the lockout will extend for the entirety of the remainder of his contract? At some point they will prepare to play again and there will be an offseason of some sort however brief. Or they could trade him before the trade deadline of the next season played.

Also, no where in my question did I rule out a simple buy-out with our without an Allen Houston-type clause in the next CBA. That's just your jerky nature reading too much into things. My question was not mutually exclusive of such a proposition.

Simply put, Lewis has had a few good games as a Wizard, case in point the last one against the Nets. What hypothetical level would he have to play at to have any positive value at all?

There's a price for everything - call it an Indecent Proposal if you want.

First of all, you started things off by effectively branding anyone who supported the trade as being willfully delusional, so if the exchange is terse, you're the trigger man in disrespecting the opinions of others. Secondly, you almost surely don't understand the non-guaranteed year and it befuddles your reasoning. The combination of being both dismissive and misinformed gets you a snarky reply in most venues, Monday through Sunday, free of charge. That said, I'll cut to the pertinent issues.

What I assume you don't understand is this, as it's the obvious point that would stitch your arguments together: The truth is that a non-guaranteed year means that you don't have to pay a guy all of his money if you waive him. Under no circumstances does it mean that Rashard plays for you in 2013 for a lesser fee.

So Rashard's contract is effectively this:

2011- you pay him $20 million and he plays.
2012- you pay him $21 million and he plays.
2013- you pay him maybe something like $13-$14 million, but daddy don't play (I'm assuming he hits some of his performance benchmarks; could be up to $17 million, could be as low as $10 million). Technically, he'll play in 2013 if you pay him $22 million, but Homey don't play that. Why not just take Baron Davis instead?

So understanding that, let's take a look at these....

And to be clear, I'm not just thinking about this year [for a trade]. That would probably be too much wishful thinking. But maybe the offseason? Maybe the middle of the next season played?

Do you think they will never play basketball again once they begin the lockout? Do you think the lockout will extend for the entirety of the remainder of his contract? At some point they will prepare to play again and there will be an offseason of some sort however brief. Or they could trade him before the trade deadline of the next season played.

See, this is what tells me that you don't have the principles involved in hand here, because that - and the rest of your arguments - would actually make sense if he were going to play in 2013 for the smaller amount that his contract is guaranteed for; yeah, he'd potentially have semi-respectable trade value in 2012 if that were true and you'd indeed be onto something. But unfortunately, it's not true, so the idea of another team biting on a basketball trade that takes place after this year's deadline just does not compute.

For your second quote, the likely truth is not much better than what you were intending to be a weighted rhetorical question that proved your point. As it so happens, a 1999 style 40 game lockout (including preseason) would extinguish all but 50 games of his final two years, but still basically having you on the hook to pay him for 140 games (again, including preseason). How well would he have to play in that single 2012 season - lockout shortened or not - for someone to agree to pay him an absolute minimum of $10 million and possibly up to $17 million in 2013 while he's not even on the roster? Even if the 2012 season is full length it's still Wuerffel. Otherwise, who's going to pay him $22 million to play in 2013 after the tighter CBA comes in?

And the idea of someone actually biting on him at the 2012 trade deadline is particularly rich; I mean, come on, the buyer's getting what, 30+ regular season games of Shard before being stuck with the 2013 obligations? That might be $20 million for 35 games. That's what, maybe a pay rate that would equate to a $50+ million dollar salary if you were to prorate that over a full 90 game pay-cycle?

Look, nobody's going to fail so spectacularly at a game of hot potato as all that and offer us substantive financial relief for Lewis in the upcoming offseason unless we kick in draft picks, especially at a time when there's an assortment of cheap vets on the market who just got bought out mixing in with a respectable free agent class (well, and a bunch of overpaid vets on the trade market). In fact, the time frame directly after the new CBA comes down is going to be just about the absolute worst time in the history of the league to try and dump expensive vets for financial relief.

I'll mention the specifics of how Rashard trades might go down in another post. There's a few scenarios, though they're not likely to be particularly constructive unless they take place before this year's trade deadline.

[LyricalRico]

I kinda think we already have our own poor man's Granger in Lewis. I don't see us sacrificing the assets necessary to acquire him when we are already devoting $20M to a guy who plays the same position in a similar manner.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Actually, I wonder if NJ wouldn't be better off offering Favors and filler for Granger rather than Melo. No extension worries and they wouldn't have to beg other teams to get involved to add more picks.

[tontoz]

I kinda think we already have our own poor man's Granger in Lewis. I don't see us sacrificing the assets necessary to acquire him when we are already devoting $20M to a guy who plays the same position in a similar manner.

I understand your point but if you have the chance to acquire a big time talent like Granger i think you have to take a look at it. It isn't like the team is so successful that we should be worried about disrupting chemistry. Lewis can easily play the 4.

the big question to me is a bird in hand vs two in the bush. Aquiring Granger would obviously be sacrificing future capspace which could conceivably be used to lure a big free agent, preferably a big man. This is where my hesitation would be.

And of course i am not sure what it would take to get him in the first place.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wiz interested in Casspi?

from ESPN's weekend dime:

"few more teams that have expressed interest in Sacramento's in-demand Omri Casspi have emerged since ESPN.com's report earlier this week that Chicago and New York are trying to persuade the Kings to part with the second-year swingman. One source close to the situation said Toronto and Washington have joined the Casspi chase, and Sam Amick of AOL FanHouse reports that Denver and the Los Angeles Clippers have inquired, as well. As stated from the start, though, Sacramento will insist that any team take on the contract of Beno Udrih or Francisco Garcia in any Casspi deal and could well ask for even more than that. The Kings' desire to find a new point guard to pair with Tyreke Evans is no secret among rival teams"

Grunfeld and Flip are stupid enough to trade McGee for Casspi. They are also stupid enough to acquire Udrih and not move Hinrich. Flip would love that. I can't see this team parting with Kirk.

[gesa2]

Any trades you like CCJ? Are you a fan of Casspi? What's your take on how we should handle our cap space going forward? I get that you want EG and especially Flip gone, and don't disagree with you. But what else do you think would help us? I miss your player projections!

[AceDegenerate]

Casspi sucks, and doesn't this team have enough 3's already? I don't understand what there is to gain by adding another soft player to this squad.

Why can't the Wizards be interested in a Reggie Evans type player? Oh that's right, our GM love's softies.

[LyricalRico]

Blatche+Thornton for Garcia+Casspi+Thompson

[no D in Hibachi]

Blatche+Thornton for Garcia+Casspi+Thompson

Pipe dream...great trade for Wash, terrible for Sacto.

Blatche<<Thompson+Garcia's Salary
Thornton<Casspi

Sacto already has a ton of cap space so getting rid of Garcia isn't worth taking on Blatche and his larger contract even if Garcia is considered worthless (which he isn't).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Any trades you like CCJ? Are you a fan of Casspi? What's your take on how we should handle our cap space going forward? I get that you want EG and especially Flip gone, and don't disagree with you. But what else do you think would help us? I miss your player projections!

I suggested several trades a few pages up and approved of one closq suggested with SAC. Just not this one.

gesa2, I am okay with Blatche/Tyrus, because both are born in 1986. One is a good all-around big who I think is hurt. Tyrus is a freak athlete who can defend a dunk like a young Kenyon Martin.

I like Casspi but suspect Flip sees him as a jump shooting starting PF he'd trade Javale for. I don't want ANY player brought in for this coach, nor do I want any draftee or McGee or Blatche traded with value low. Fire EG and Flip and continue to rebuild around Wall.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Blatche+Thornton for Garcia+Casspi+Thompson

Not bad, LR.

Thornton goes to a good situation to be resigned. Wiz get Garcia and have no pressure to sign Howard. Francisco is good. Casspi is streaky but high character, mature second-year pro. Have to wonder why the Kings would shop him, however. He plays with passion, unlike Yi Jianlian. Thompson is not bad and is a young big who's more physical than Andray.

Kings will really be set with Cousins and Blatche, but this deal is pretty decent for the Wizards IMO.

How good is Thompson compared to Blatche? I don't have a good read on this.

[Ed Wood]

I like Casspi but suspect Flip sees him as a jump shooting starting PF he'd trade Javale for.

Other than the fact that you strongly dislike Flip and want to assign the most sinister intentions to everything involving him what on earth would make you think this? Casspi is way too small to handle power forwards defensively and is an okay rebounder for a small forward but would be a really really terrible rebounding power forward. Plus Casspi has the ability to be a solid defender for a wing (though he isn't doing it right now) but isn't nearly athletically gifted enough to make a defensive impact inside a la AK47 or something to compensate for his lack of size. Seriously, that's such an awful idea, what about Flip suggests that he'd consider doing that or consider trading McGee for Casspi? The fact that Flip (and his staff) has been improving the team's defense and would therefore look to sabotage it? The fact that Flip has been giving JaVale more and more minutes as he's improved and JaVale in return is rebounding and taking much fewer terrible shots?

CCJ honey, this is a little silly.

Edit: Thompson is a better defender and is more efficient than Andray this year (though not much more efficient than the less awful Blatche of the past). He is a slightly better rebounder. Andray of last year would blow Thompson away. This year Thompson has been better but not a lot better.

[Dat2U]

I think people like Thompson and Casspi because of their age. Not because either is necessarily any good. Someone mentioned racism in another thread but honestly I think there's a bigger case of ageism going on.

I'd much rather have Varejao. Easily a more proven low post defender and solid rebounder with a high IQ.

And I still can't imagine why anyone on our end would turn down a deal for Love if it only cost us a lottery pick in a horrible draft, a SG that curiously doesn't start playing well until his contract year in Young and a marginal backup center prospect in Seraphin. That's a steal of epic proportions if we could pull it off.

[Hoopalotta]

@STEIN_LINE_HQ Cavs announce that ankle/midfoot injury suffered by Varejao -- their most coveted trade piece -- in practice Thursday "likely" season-ending

Hmmmm, now might be a good time to trade Dray for Sideshow. A total tank move this year, but it has the opposite effect next year.

[Hoopalotta]

And I still can't imagine why anyone on our end would turn down a deal for Love if it only cost us a lottery pick in a horrible draft, a SG that curiously doesn't start playing well until his contract year in Young and a marginal backup center prospect in Seraphin. That's a steal of epic proportions if we could pull it off.

I'd probably do it, but I wouldn't be ecstatic. Obviously there's the issue of Loves legendary D, though at least we have Javale as the eraser-guy to pair with him. I don't know how that's going to work out as far as moving away from being a jump shooting team, but that's not the end of the world either.

My main reservation - not enough to outright stop me, but enough to bite into my enthusiasm - is that I think Love's going to get a HUGE contract; probably a max deal.

I'd still probably bite, but I'd have reservations.

[nate33]

My main reservation - not enough to outright stop me, but enough to bite into my enthusiasm - is that I think Love's going to get a HUGE contract; probably a max deal.

Yup. That's the real problem. In general, it's not good to have guys who's "glory stats" are better than their actual impact; because players get paid according to their stats. The best way to ruin a franchise is to pay a non-franchise player franchise player money.