Nets Trying To Get Billups And RIP Along With Anthony

[bruddahmanmatt]

Does Shawne Williams dominate, destroy and own everyone in his role as well? My point was that your hyperbole comes off as (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Matt Barnes was a monster last night...

...in a suit.

okay. how do you want me to respond.

the reason that AR isnt playing is because the role he would be playing is being played very well by another player. are you happy?

I am actually.

[BrooklynSwag]

And now that I remember, look at the compensation for the second pick overall in AR's draft. A 2nd round pick.

And BTW, Warriors and Knicks systems and coaches approach to young unsung players are tailor-made for AR. It's not like he has been in bad situations.

AR might well turn it and become a star down the road. Or some dumb GM could go crazy about him and overpay. But as is right now, his market value is a late 1st at best.

disagree.

Warriors and the Knicks are exactly what he doesnt need. Offensive freedom is what makes him bad. His flaw right now is shot selection or lack thereof.

So it would be overpaying if a GM is willing to give a lotto pick, but yet his market wouldnt be a lotto pick? If he gets a lotto pick, that was his value.

[BrooklynSwag]

well this thread went a little crazy.

need some more twitter updates to stir the pot more.

preferably not from incarcerated cheddar bob

agreed. he guessed cliff lee was signed by the Rangers like 3 times.

[BrooklynSwag]

I am actually.

Cool.

I have to go now. Have fun guys.

[locus7]

This debate is useless.

This isn't a thread about who has a better chance of getting Melo Nets or Knicks.

It's a thread about the Nets potentially getting Melo is a much discussed deal. The Knicks have NOTHING to do with this thread.

Once they get in the discussion let me know.

+1 on that.

News about this trade going through could be announced, and then be buried on this thread by continued pointless AR vs Favors vs Chandler vs Harris vs Fields arguments.

[knicks9784]

if favors had an off year where he wasnt getting playing time at 21 i wouldnt right him off. jermaine o'neal anyone?

you going to go J. Oneal route? thats the opposite scenarion, Oneal couldn't get burn in Por playing behind really solid players, AR got burn in GSW and now cant get any playing behind Shawn Williams? come on now

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

[bruddahmanmatt]

if favors had an off year where he wasnt getting playing time at 21 i wouldnt right him off. jermaine o'neal anyone?

you going to go J. Oneal route? thats the opposite scenarion, Oneal couldn't get burn in Por playing behind really solid players, AR got burn in GSW and now cant get any playing behind Shawn Williams? come on now

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

Yeah but that's a horrible comparison. Randolph has already been given ample opportunity to show everyone what he can (or can't) do. JO got zip, zero PT on a stacked Portland team. Not even close to being the same situation. How can you showcase your stuff if you never see the floor? Randolph has seen the floor and then been promptly removed from it because he was playing like a clown.

[vincecarter4pres]

"Main" Asset comparisons: (Salary info from Shamsports)

Nets:
Derrick Favors, four years, qualifying offer in year 5
Devin Harris, 26.8 million over the next 3 years

Knicks:
Wilson Chandler, One year, Qualifying offer next year
Danilo Gallinari, Two years, qualifying offer for third year
Landry Fields, 2 years, third year qualifying offer

First round picks:

Nets: Nets 2011, 2012, 2013 picks, Golden State (lottery protected in 2011, top 11 protected in 2012, top 10 protected in 2013, if not conveyed by 2013, Nets will instead receive the Warriors' 2013 and 2015 second-round picks), Houston's 2012 lottery protected pick, Lakers 2011 first round pick with top 18 protection. Nets can trade 4 of the 5 according to NBA rules (NY Times article).

Knicks: 2014 first round pick

If anything is wrong let me know.

Yes, the GSW pick is never more then top 7 protected, it was amended last offseason through a further trade.

It is top 7 protected in 2012, top 7 protected in 2013, top 6 protected in 2014 and if not conveyed by then it turns into two second rounders, one in 2014 and one in 2016.

That pick is pretty valuable, considering IIRC, Minnesota is the only team that has been top 7 in the lottery for 3 straight seasons. Going by the law of averages, that pick is pretty much destined to be a 1st rounder and with GSW's up and down play and strange but improving roster, likely a late lotto pick in 2012.

[BossHoggin]

I'm insulted that people think SMH is cool

[corona]

How many 23 year old "role players" average 18ppg and 6.5rpg w/ 1.5 bpg and .7 steals? Plus the fact that he gives you versatility, defense and has improved every year.

if he's so darn good and improving so fast and a future star (aka not a role player). why not keep him? new york shouldn't need melo. particularly for double chandlers salary. he'll only give you another 5-7ppg.

so what's the big fuss about? why does the nuggets board keep getting invaded by knicks fans who feel entitled to melo when they already have a stud of a SF?

or.....is he a role player that'll never draw double teams, and who's stats and minutes are inflated because he plays for mike d'antoni?

they could just not be negotiating a trade because NY has been adamant and unwaivering in what they will give.

the reports i've seen said new york asked denver what they want....and denver pretty much didn't respond. to me that means it wouldn't really matter what the knicks offered, denver still wouldn't take it.

[LApwnd]

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

as others would have pointed out, must not be much potential considering he can't get PT playing behind Shawn Williams, not saying he's a bad player but dude been tossed around like a 2 dollar whore over his short nba career. Por knew Oneal was good but they didn't want to develope him, GSW made it know AR is a headcase and a dumbass, looks like that hasn't changed either by going to NY.

[nyqua11]

Thanks for that info.

"Main" Asset comparisons: (Salary info from Shamsports)

Nets:
Derrick Favors, four years, qualifying offer in year 5
Devin Harris, 26.8 million over the next 3 years

Knicks:
Wilson Chandler, One year, Qualifying offer next year
Danilo Gallinari, Two years, qualifying offer for third year
Landry Fields, 2 years, third year qualifying offer

First round picks:

Nets: Nets 2011, 2012, 2013 picks, Golden State (top 7 protected in 2012, top 7 protected in 2013, top 6 protected in 2014 and if not conveyed by then it turns into two second rounders, one in 2014 and one in 2016), Houston's 2012 lottery protected pick, Lakers 2011 first round pick with top 18 protection. Nets can trade 4 of the 5 according to NBA rules (NY Times article).

Knicks: 2014 first round pick

[M.Balla]

disagree.

Warriors and the Knicks are exactly what he doesnt need. Offensive freedom is what makes him bad. His flaw right now is shot selection or lack thereof.

I disagree back From what I've read he's not one of the most disciplined guys in the League, and I think that offensive freedom helps guys with low b-ball iq (as long as they are not the focal point).

So it would be overpaying if a GM is willing to give a lotto pick, but yet his market wouldnt be a lotto pick? If he gets a lotto pick, that was his value.

Yes, if one GM gives a lotto pick than this hypothetical situation becomes his trade value. But since no one that we know has offered a lottery pick, his market value as of right now is, a late 1st.

[BossHoggin]

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

as others would have pointed out, must not be much potential considering he can't get PT playing behind Shawn Williams, not saying he's a bad player but dude been tossed around like a 2 dollar whore over his short nba career. Por knew Oneal was good but they didn't want to develope him, GSW made it know AR is a headcase and a dumbass, looks like that hasn't changed either by going to NY.

Melo would take playing time away from Amare, Gallo, and Chandler anyways (whoever is left)

[LApwnd]

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

as others would have pointed out, must not be much potential considering he can't get PT playing behind Shawn Williams, not saying he's a bad player but dude been tossed around like a 2 dollar whore over his short nba career. Por knew Oneal was good but they didn't want to develope him, GSW made it know AR is a headcase and a dumbass, looks like that hasn't changed either by going to NY.

Melo would take playing time away from Amare, Gallo, and Chandler anyways (whoever is left)

??? not sure what you are arguing here, I'm referring to these NYK fans who think AR is worth a lotto pick because of his "POTENTIAL"

[knicks9784]

you going to go J. Oneal route? thats the opposite scenarion, Oneal couldn't get burn in Por playing behind really solid players, AR got burn in GSW and now cant get any playing behind Shawn Williams? come on now

You didnt dispel the fact that anthony randolph still has potential. you just said he's in a different situation that Jermain O'neal. my point was o'nea'sl potential wasnt realized till several years into his career.

Yeah but that's a horrible comparison. Randolph has already been given ample opportunity to show everyone what he can (or can't) do. JO got zip, zero PT on a stacked Portland team. Not even close to being the same situation. How can you showcase your stuff if you never see the floor? Randolph has seen the floor and then been promptly removed from it because he was playing like a clown.

the comparison here isnt o'neal really, im asking why favors can have potential at 19 and sucking in nj, but randolph lost all the potential he showed last year and hes 21. i used o'neal to show players can get better after the age of 21. and no he didnt just magically get better because rasheed wallace wasnt playing in front of him again. he got better cause he was still young, getting older, and learning the game. ala randolph.

the guy was using potential as an argument as to why favors was better than fields, and saying randolph was worthless cause he had no potential.

[Prot9]

1. cool.

2. there were reports that AR can get a first but Walsh said no.

3. Again its not all for one. Obviously Wilson Chandler would be accompanied with other players. But Wilson Chandler is better than Harris, Favors(who has no offensive game) or definitely MUCH MUCH better than a 1st round pick in a horrible draft.

I don't agree with anything you just said besides "cool", so I'm going to leave this argument alone.

[Jetset]

How in the hell did this thread get from Carmelo and the Nets, to which team had the better deal, to AR not being a bust and now to Jermaine O'neal. Anyway I'm just glad that the little discrepancy about who having the best package has been resolved. And why hasn't this trade gone down yet exactly?

[Sh0t]

Because there is little incentive to compromise on any side but melo's really.
denver can hold out until the trade deadline without worry. the knicks would PREFER if mellow did not sign and trade, so they can get him cheaper, because his heart is set there.

Melo is the one holding the trade up for the most part, because his wishes are basically going to be impossible to get. He'll either get max money OR NYK but not both.

[TruSkool]

and now they want to include al harrington