Atlanta at Toronto, Oct 23rd, 7:30PM on Sportsnet/AM640

[emfive]

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Do you watch games or just make evaluations on players plus minus #'s because if you've watched Gill has been a disaster 5 on 5 and many times got lucky to get out of numerous terrible neutral zone plays without having a minus next to his name.

So the plus minus rating is a mirage is it? I do not really wish to comment on such ratings so early in the season, but to denigrate that statistic is totally idiotic. When taking into account the team the specific player plays on, it is arguably one of the most significant stats a coach can look at.

PS Your post is totally unsubstantiated anecdotal bullsheit!

PPS Were you the dude ragging on Stajan as well?

[Griff83]

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So the plus minus rating is a mirage is it? I do not really wish to comment on such ratings so early in the season, but to denigrate that statistic is totally idiotic. When taking into account the team the specific player plays on, it is arguably one of the most significant stats a coach can look at.

PS Your post is totally unsubstantiated anecdotal bullsheit!

PPS Were you the dude ragging on Stajan as well?

In Hall Gill's case it doesnt reflect his play 5 on 5 which this stat is based on. For example a stat like plus minus doesnt always depict what always goes on in the game. For example Hall Gill could end one night at +3 and have no positive impact on any of the goals that were scored to increase his +/- in a positive way.

Hall Gill could step on the ice as his team carries the puck down the ice and scores a goal and he would recieve a + when he had no influence on the play whatsoever. Gill has been awesome as a penalty killer, but rather underwhelming 5 on 5 even though his plus minus might look good. Hall Gill could get blown by 3 times in the neutral zone in one game, cough up the puck 4 times in his own zone and still come out of it without taking a hit to his plus minus if his goalie bails him out or the other team doesnt finish the play.

Leafs have the 2nd worst GA average in the league and still only have one player (McCabe) with a minus plus minus rating and the reason for the is the Leafs score the 2nd most goals in the league.

Perfect example of a player who's been horrid defensively but the plus minus doesnt show it

Andy Wozniewski

[emfive]

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In Hall Gill's case it doesnt reflect his play 5 on 5 which this stat is based on. For example a stat like plus minus doesnt always depict what always goes on in the game. For example Hall Gill could end one night at +3 and have no positive impact on any of the goals that were scored to increase his +/- in a positive way.

Hall Gill could step on the ice as his team carries the puck down the ice and scores a goal and he would recieve a + when he had no influence on the play whatsoever. Gill has been awesome as a penalty killer, but rather underwhelming 5 on 5 even though his plus minus might look good. Hall Gill could get blown by 3 times in the neutral zone in one game, cough up the puck 4 times in his own zone and still come out of it without taking a hit to his plus minus if his goalie bails him out or the other team doesnt finish the play.

Leafs have the 2nd worst GA average in the league and still only have one player (McCabe) with a minus plus minus rating and the reason for the is the Leafs score the 2nd most goals in the league.

Perfect example of a player who's been horrid defensively but the plus minus doesnt show it

Andy Wozniewski

As the season goes forward those mishaps will show up in the statistics. To be honest, I have not watched enough to make comment on the season so far. But I suppose as you are citing GA as an important stat, Leaf fans can take heart in the Goals For to date.

PS I am not really a fan of Gill, at any rate. His reach has saved his ass on too many occasions where his feet were unable to keep up with the play in the new NHL. I am more positive about Kubina in spite of that contract. Also McCabe cannot play big minutes without detriment to his game. Guys like Stralman and Kronberg need to make up the minutes. It appears to me (from what I have seen that as a group they (both defence and forwards) have been making very poor choices in their own end. Maurice has been trying to change the pairings this yeae and hopefully things will settle down.

If they can move their defensive rating to the middle of the lpack and keep scoring ... well ... who knows they might win more than they lose.

In spite of all the fuss, there a a few teams in bigger trouble in their own conference ... ie Sabres.

[Griff83]

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As the season goes forward those mishaps will show up in the statistics. To be honest, I have not watched enough to make comment on the season so far. But I suppose as you are citing GA as an important stat, Leaf fans can take heart in the Goals For to date.

PS I am not really a fan of Gill, at any rate. His reach has saved his ass on too many occasions where his feet were unable to keep up with the play in the new NHL. I am more positive about Kubina in spite of that contract. Also McCabe cannot play big minutes without detriment to his game. Guys like Stralman and Kronberg need to make up the minutes. It appears to me (from what I have seen that as a group they (both defence and forwards) have been making very poor choices in their own end. Maurice has been trying to change the pairings this yeae and hopefully things will settle down.

If they can move their defensive rating to the middle of the lpack and keep scoring ... well ... who knows they might win more than they lose.

In spite of all the fuss, there a a few teams in bigger trouble in their own conference ... ie Sabres.

How are the sabres in trouble?

[emfive]

I don't think the Sabres are anywhere near the team they were last year and that may result in fewer bums in seats! Ranger fans must be scratching their heads also.