The way Vince Carter plays

Juan Montoya · Post #1 » by **Juan Montoya** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:01 pm

This guy has all the ability in the world. He can shoot threes from way behind the three point line, he can go to the basket at will, when he runs to the basket he can finish difficult lay up shots or stop mid-way to the basket and get up for an easy J, he also has a great eye for the open man.

Yet... what do we see? It seems like every.single.time. he gets the ball, he either passes it on or jacks up a shot IMMEDIATELY when he gets the ball in his hands. There is NEVER a pump fake. Never. I watched every single Orlando game since VC was traded there and watched every single Phoenix game since VC came here. He doesnt know there is a pump fake. He never does it when he gets the ball, he never does it at the end of his dribbling.

You look at people like Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce, these guys are also getting old like VC, they changed there game accordingly, Kobe catches the ball = pump fake, dribbles around a bit, pump fake, pump fake, then a pass, or a jump shot, or gets the defender in the air and jumps into him - goes to the free throw line. Paul Pierce has made a living off of pumpfakes and then jumping into the defender. Always has a trick up his sleeves. Then look at Carter getting the ball, immediate Jump Shot Jump Shot Jump Shot. It pisses me off!! The guy has every skill set a basketball player could want, he turned into a one-dimensional player.

Come on VC!!! Someone tell him please to attack the rim with force, to make pump fakes, to play smart, not throwing up everything as soon as he gets the ball like its a hot potato. Vince, when did you decide to become a spot-up shooter?

chefsunsfan7 · Post #2 » by **chefsunsfan7** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:12 pm

Not only that, but against Denver, Cleveland, NY he was dogging it defensively. Missing rotations and leaving 3 pt shooters open.

MickaelPietrus · Post #3 » by **MickaelPietrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:25 pm

That's just Vince.

Us Orlando fans got pissed of him always playing off his man, no matter if it's a great shooter like Kevin Martin.

Watching his "Defense" on Casspi was just hilarious.

in 2008-09, with Courtney Lee, Keith Bogans and Rafer Alston we had the 7th best perimeter defense, and then when Vince came, we were 23rd in the league. No Surprise at all.

JRich isn't a good defender, and he knows that, but we are now number 13th in perimeter defense without half man half retired.

Honestly I wouldn't pick Vince over Tracy McGrady right now.

TMac has been playing great basketball as of late, and always looks to pass the ball. Vince on the other hand, I'm not so sure.

TXSun · Post #4 » by **TXSun** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:56 pm

not liking what i'm seeing from VC thus far. either you wanna be here or not. plays with no heart at times. ship his a$$ outta here come deadline.

Post #5 » by **Hilltop** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:09 pm

Except McGrady has many of the same traits that his cousin has and is 99% more injury prone.

Anyway, the observation is accurate. Carter's fundamentals have never been very impressive. Even at the tail-end of his stint with the Nets, he still possessed a lot more athleticism than the average player his age. When he arrived in Orlando though, it was obvious that his legs were shot and he had already lost so much speed and quickness. That's where all these ugly shot attempts are coming from. Carter is a great shooter and is still a pretty crafty finisher so that has helped him get by, but he doesn't much else going for him. He's decent in the post, but usually only when he has a size advantage. If not, his footwork isn't going to turn heads.

It's hard to judge what is going on with him because it's still early. We all know how hard he worked over the summer to get into shape and fine-tune his game to his role in Orlando, but obviously, the pressure is different when you are playing for a contender. I hope he isn't cruising just because the Suns aren't in the same position to win.

magic show 2010 · Post #6 » by **magic show 2010** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:24 pm

i guess we all look at things differently. i can clearly see that vince is not the player he once was, but he seems like he is really trying to be the best he can be. now playing in this offense, will make a person want to shoot more three's, but i think that he has been mixing it up. vince is a pretty good on ball defender, but he does have problems leaving his man to help the post. from the games that i have watched, the team is better with him in, than out, but what ive noticed about this team, is that they dont have any role players, nor any post players. i think that it is easier to blame vince, because of his attitude, than most other players. nobody on this team is playing good ball. nash is nash, but even he isnt playing great right now. i still think vince is favoring his knee, but it looks far better than in orlando. he is actually running the court, and running around screens. vince is who is he is right now, and that is not really bad, but he is not gonna get you 25 ppg anymore, but he will get you 18 - 20 on 45% shooting, which is not bad.

Juan Montoya · Post #7 » by **Juan Montoya** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:55 pm

I dont think he is playing completely terrible at all. His FG% is good, but when the defender knows your throwing it up everytime he is going to defend you accordingly, he often has to take shots with the defender all over him, sometimes with him even making those. But imo he should try to be more creative, and a bit more patient when deciding his offensive move. Just seems in love with the immediate jump shot.

I like his play in the post, he's a decent defender just sometimes makes silly fouls.

I also believe he has put on way too much weight for his style of play and skillset.

BurningHeart · Post #8 » by **BurningHeart** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:18 am

Half-man, half-hearted.

That said, he's playing about as well as I'd expect him to.

Vinsanity92 · Post #9 » by **Vinsanity92** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:55 am

Juan Montoya wrote:This guy has all the ability in the world. He can shoot threes from way behind the three point line, he can go to the basket at will, when he runs to the basket he can finish difficult lay up shots or stop mid-way to the basket and get up for an easy J, he also has a great eye for the open man.

Yet... what do we see? It seems like every.single.time. he gets the ball, he either passes it on or jacks up a shot IMMEDIATELY when he gets the ball in his hands. There is NEVER a pump fake. Never. I watched every single Orlando game since VC was traded there and watched every single Phoenix game since VC came here. He doesnt know there is a pump fake. He never does it when he gets the ball, he never does it at the end of his dribbling.

You look at people like Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce, these guys are also getting old like VC, they changed there game accordingly, Kobe catches the ball = pump fake, dribbles around a bit, pump fake, pump fake, then a pass, or a jump shot, or gets the defender in the air and jumps into him - goes to the free throw line. Paul Pierce has made a living off of pumpfakes and then jumping into the defender. Always has a trick up his sleeves. Then look at Carter getting the ball, immediate Jump Shot Jump Shot Jump Shot. It pisses me off!! The guy has every skill set a basketball player could want, he turned into a one-dimensional player.

Come on VC!!! Someone tell him please to attack the rim with force, to make pump fakes, to play smart, not throwing up everything as soon as he gets the ball like its a hot potato. Vince, when did you decide to become a spot-up shooter?

Juan, I agree with you , great post.. Ive been a die hard VC fan since the raptors days, this is my first post on this site, but yeah ive seen VC through ups and downs.. it hurts me when he misses a shot and I get choked when he shoots right a way, dont know why he doesnt just drive, when he is capable to do so. I just dont know why. The reason why hes become more of a shooter is that he did what he wanted to, he did the jaw dropping dunks and the athletic layups, but ppl always critized him for his shooting nd he wanted to get better at the, so as a vet player thts is why hs become more of a shooter.. but still when he has the god gifted abilty (which he still has) to get to the rim which most players at his age dont have , why doest he take it to the hole?? No idea... I will continue to support him no matter what because he is the reason why i still watch and play bball. SO far in his 7 games hes played with the Suns he has been alright, but he can do better

magic show 2010 · Post #10 » by **magic show 2010** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:31 am

he actually is starting to look better. that knee is still an issue though. i think that he will get better as time goes on.

SideSwipe · Post #11 » by **SideSwipe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:31 am

I will repeat here what I put in another post for some perspective. Outside of J-Rich, Vince is doing better than any other 2-guard in PHX over the past 10 years. Not one other shooting guard has averaged (for a whole season) what Vince is averaging for us right now. We need to be careful not to let performance/cost cloud our vision of overall performance.

There are only 7 other 2-guards in the league averaging what he is averaging. He is tied with Ray Allen at 17.5 ppg. Also, Vince is doing much better than J-Rich in his first few games in PHX. J-Rich only averaged 15.7ppg last year. Carter has lost some athleticism and his heart/ emotion is a little lacking which affects the quality of his leadership, but he is producing.

BurningHeart · Post #12 » by **BurningHeart** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:57 am

I don't care about his production on the court being tolerable. If his presence overall is such a detriment, then it cancels everything else out.

now and 4 life · Post #13 » by **now and 4 life** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:22 am

His FTA per game are an embarrassment and his passing has been worse than even I expected(and I called him a poor passer even before he came to the Suns).

SideSwipe · Post #14 » by **SideSwipe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:29 am

Burning Heart you are falling prey to the hype, my friend....

papfankon · Post #15 » by **papfankon** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:52 am

MickaelPietrus wrote:That's just Vince.

Us Orlando fans got pissed of him always playing off his man, no matter if it's a great shooter like Kevin Martin.

Watching his "Defense" on Casspi was just hilarious.

in 2008-09, with Courtney Lee, Keith Bogans and Rafer Alston we had the 7th best perimeter defense, and then when Vince came, we were 23rd in the league. No Surprise at all.

JRich isn't a good defender, and he knows that, but we are now number 13th in perimeter defense without half man half retired.

Honestly I wouldn't pick Vince over Tracy McGrady right now.

TMac has been playing great basketball as of late, and always looks to pass the ball. Vince on the other hand, I'm not so sure.

Hmm,could you please provide a link,regarding your source on those stats??

Post #16 » by **Miklo** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:22 am

Honestly the guy who's seemed to have an attitude since he got here is Pietrus. Every game on the bench he looks pissed.

I think VC can be great and it seems like he might enjoy playing here.

RocPHX · Post #17 » by **RocPHX** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:33 am

Thats why vince is vince, and kobe and pierce are who they are.

JasonDaPsycho · Post #18 » by **JasonDaPsycho** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:42 am

Miklo wrote:Honestly the guy who's seemed to have an attitude since he got here is Pietrus. Every game on the bench he looks pissed.

I think VC can be great and it seems like he might enjoy playing here.

Contract year...

RvM · Post #19 » by **RvM** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:50 am

Miklo wrote:Honestly the guy who's seemed to have an attitude since he got here is Pietrus. Every game on the bench he looks pissed.

I think VC can be great and it seems like he might enjoy playing here.

Pietrus was expecting to have a major role coming here to Phoenix, and this type of offense should have definitely benefited him. Run and Gun, spot up 3s, and more minutes.

Despite all that, early in the season with the Magic, he was in Stan Van Gundy's doghouse, and I don't think he was expecting it here in Phoenix.

Pietrus is a nice player, but he has the IQ of a peanut. He's usually a funny and talkative guy. Don't know what's up with him.

I think VC has done an okay job so far with the Suns. He took almost a whole year to be acquainted with the Magic's system, and I'm surprised because he's actually doing pretty well.

RvM · Post #20 » by **RvM** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:10 am

Juan Montoya wrote:This guy has all the ability in the world. He can shoot threes from way behind the three point line, he can go to the basket at will, when he runs to the basket he can finish difficult lay up shots or stop mid-way to the basket and get up for an easy J, he also has a great eye for the open man.

Yet... what do we see? It seems like every.single.time. he gets the ball, he either passes it on or jacks up a shot IMMEDIATELY when he gets the ball in his hands. There is NEVER a pump fake. Never. I watched every single Orlando game since VC was traded there and watched every single Phoenix game since VC came here. He doesnt know there is a pump fake. He never does it when he gets the ball, he never does it at the end of his dribbling.

You look at people like Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce, these guys are also getting old like VC, they changed there game accordingly, Kobe catches the ball = pump fake, dribbles around a bit, pump fake, pump fake, then a pass, or a jump shot, or gets the defender in the air and jumps into him - goes to the free throw line. Paul Pierce has made a living off of pumpfakes and then jumping into the defender. Always has a trick up his sleeves. Then look at Carter getting the ball, immediate Jump Shot Jump Shot Jump Shot. It pisses me off!! The guy has every skill set a basketball player could want, he turned into a one-dimensional player.

Come on VC!!! Someone tell him please to attack the rim with force, to make pump fakes, to play smart, not throwing up everything as soon as he gets the ball like its a hot potato. Vince, when did you decide to become a spot-up shooter?

Also, let's address the op's post.

What the heck do you expect out of a man that's turning 34 in a few weeks?

It's no secret that Vince Carter had all the talents in the world, he could have been the next Jordan, blah blah blah.

It's like we somehow expect him to turn back time and be 24 again and act like he'll be averaging 25/5/5.

Vince is nothing more than a 2nd option at best. He can't lead a team to be the superstar that he once was. Vince isn't going to be attacking the rim at will or getting 10+ fts a game. Not with his legs right now. He's still got some lift, but he won't be dunking on anyone anytime soon. (Oh wait, he just did today against Quentin Ross)

Unlike Kobe or Pierce, Vince relied more on his athleticism during his prime and Vince's range and shooting is almost impossible to stop when he get's it going.

Vince has always had that horrible bad habit of taking fade-away jumpers. He takes them because he believes he can make them, and he DOES make them. It's just that he doesn't even have that high a lift that he once had which helped alot with those fadeaway jumpers.

With the Magic, he was forced into a spot up shooter role, when he's always at his best with a pnr with a 1 or with an isolation at the top. He still has enough of a shooting touch and enough craftiness, and Vince said he want's to play in the NBA for 15 years or more. He's on his 12th year right now, and I think he has enough left in the tank.

Vince is an okay passer, and a good post player, but he doesn't have the quick feet and shot choice that Kobe or Pierce have. They also have a bigger passion for the game.

Vince says all the time in interviews that he want's nothing more than to win a championship, but Vince has alot of other things that he cares about in his life. He went to get his diploma before a game in the playoffs, he has his own daughter and a charity and sanctuary that he cares for every summer.

Vince is vince. Nothing we complain or wish for will change who he is.