[Camelo Thread Part 8] - NJ Gets Threats From Denver!

jwilb49 · Post #1261 » by **jwilb49** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:21 am

MELO shoots too much and would easily mess up chemistry......

WILSON CHANDLER is better then MELO!!!!! in my opinion...

DONT GIVE UP TOO MUCH FOR ONE GUY...

i would look at SAMUEL DALEMBERT, OKAFOR (EXPIRING CONTRACT), KAMAN, DeAndre JoRDAN, MCGEE..................

and get RUDY FERNANDEZ

Pharmcat · Post #1262 » by **Pharmcat** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:23 am

GONYK wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:melo can sure when pass when he wants to

(old clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UretF96tyI

That's like that Zach Randolph pass everyone used to play when they tried to argue that he was a playmaker out of the post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvJfHYtbRe0

:dontknow:

Knickplaya · Post #1263 » by **Knickplaya** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:23 am

The Nets overhyped him I guess, or the media did.

Knickplaya · Post #1264 » by **Knickplaya** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:24 am

Does anyone think Carmelo gave his agent an ultimatium get me to the Knicks by this day, or you are not my agent?

Post #1265 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 am

jwilb49 wrote:MELO shoots too much and would easily mess up chemistry......

Agreed, but that is something we can work around.

WILSON CHANDLER is better then MELO!!!!! in my opinion...

Your opinion is wrong.

DONT GIVE UP TOO MUCH FOR ONE GUY...

We won't

i would look at SAMUEL DALEMBERT, OKAFOR (EXPIRING CONTRACT), KAMAN, DeAndre JoRDAN, MCGEE..................

Dalembert? Maybe
Okafor? Is NOT expiring and is one of the worst contracts in the league
Kaman? NO
Jordan? Not realistic
McGee? Not realistic

and get RUDY FERNANDEZ

Not happening.

TrueWarrior · Post #1266 » by **TrueWarrior** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 am

god shammgod wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
god shammgod wrote:did anyone read this, according to this - landry fields produces almost 3 times as many wins as melo. that can't be right.

Fields also has a top 10 adjusted +/-. Anybody can see what he does out on the floor when hes having a good game. Stop looking at volume scoring so much. Basketball is so much more than raw stats. Alot of these advanced stats pick up things guys like Fields and Gallo do, and why I favor them heavily.

Would Melo make us a better? I guess but it depends how much we give up. Im really not convinced at all still that hes a superstar. Look how much we scored tonight. We need defense and rebounding. Melo is a 44% shooter who cant even hit threes. Whats so great about that again?

look, by the article's logic if you trade melo for landry straight up denver should be better. would they be ? c'mon

Ill reverse that and ask how much better would we be if we switched Melo for Fields? Wed lose all the little things Fields does (which isnt as replaceable as you think) for some more volume scoring. Its a serious question. Your scenario is different because even if Melo isnt that great, he can still semi carry an offense while we dont know if Landry can in the future yet. Landry is a role player and hes been one of the best in the NBA this year. The point is how good is your team going to be with a 44% shooter who cant hit threes taking 20 shots a game, who also doesnt play defense with average at best passing? Not that great. Guys like Iverson, Melo, and TMac arent taking you very far that way.

People just need to stop salivating at the name here, just because he pulls off some sexy moves every game, and truly look at the player. Melo isnt that good for the way people talk about him. A glorified Glenn Robinson just because he came into the league with LeBron. Im only down with getting him at a crazy discount. Like GONYK said if any other true "superstar" was available you think we would be this shy giving up our youngns? Hell no. Wanna know why we are? CUZ MELO ISNT THAT GOOD

.

Jay10 · Post #1267 » by **Jay10** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 am

god shammgod wrote:
Jay10 wrote:who really thinks donnie is going to give up anything of real value?

i don't think he'll trade anything beyond gallo/ar/pick. i think he's pretty much decided what he'll give up and he won't waver.

wouldn't that make the article useless then?

lol

Post #1268 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:30 am

Knickplaya wrote:Does anyone think Carmelo gave his agent an ultimatium get me to the Knicks by this day, or you are not my agent?

That day is probably the deadline.

Johnny_Depth · Post #1269 » by **Johnny_Depth** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:31 am

I think what the article fails to take into consideration is that if Fields HAD TO score, as a # 1 option like Melo does, and not as the 5th option, there's no way he'd be so efficient. That being said, I'm not a Melo fan. Poor 3 pt shooter, nonfactor on D.

Priggy Smalls · Post #1270 » by **Priggy Smalls** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:32 am

god shammgod wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
god shammgod wrote:did anyone read this, according to this - landry fields produces almost 3 times as many wins as melo. that can't be right.

Fields also has a top 10 adjusted +/-. Anybody can see what he does out on the floor when hes having a good game. Stop looking at volume scoring so much. Basketball is so much more than raw stats. Alot of these advanced stats pick up things guys like Fields and Gallo do, and why I favor them heavily.

Would Melo make us a better? I guess but it depends how much we give up. Im really not convinced at all still that hes a superstar. Look how much we scored tonight. We need defense and rebounding. Melo is a 44% shooter who cant even hit threes. Whats so great about that again?

look, by the article's logic if you trade melo for landry straight up denver should be better. would they be ? c'mon

WP/48 top ten this year
1. Peja Stojakovic
2. Kevin Love
3. Chris Paul
4. Jeremy Evans
5. Marcus Camby
6. Kris Humphries
7. Reggie Evans
8. Hamed Haddadi
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Lebron James

And if we're strictly using wins produced Kevin Love is the best player in the league. Zach Randolph and Kris Humphries are being trailed by Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, Manu Ginobli, Deron Williams, Josh Smith, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo and Tim Duncan. In that order.

Adjusted plus minus in 2011 says Chris Bosh is the best player in the league. Mike Dunleavy, David West, Keyon Dooling and Derek Fisher are in the top 10. It seems like TW is using 2 year adjusted +/- for a guy who's played 37 games, which is kind of silly, but yes Landry would be in the top 10 over 2 years adjusted plus minus.

mildred · Post #1271 » by **mildred** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:32 am

I'm glad I saw this. I always had it in my head Melo's efficiency was way too low for the money/players he was commanding.

I believe these stat geeks models. DO NOT GIVE AWAY OUR CORE AND CAPSPACE FOR MELO !!!!

Post #1272 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:35 am

The maddening thing about Melo's efficiency is that it could be leaps and bounds better if he wanted it to be.

Knickplaya · Post #1273 » by **Knickplaya** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:37 am

GONYK wrote:
Knickplaya wrote:Does anyone think Carmelo gave his agent an ultimatium get me to the Knicks by this day, or you are not my agent?

That day is probably the deadline.

Ok, I hope so, and not June 30th.

Can we start a Nets lose again or Nets Lose watch thread, and hopefully Melo sees it lol.

Future Soldier · Post #1274 » by **Future Soldier** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:37 am

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Good job Nets. I feel that they're just Carmelo ... and MAYBE a back-up point guard ... away from contending.

Maybe some testosterone for Brooke

TrueWarrior · Post #1275 » by **TrueWarrior** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:38 am

I just got this great post from a Denver fan via PM. He doesnt want his name disclosed but wanted me to post this. Take a gander and think for yourselves...

I see where you guys are talking about his value, and here is a little surprising list from 82games.com of the 25 most important players to their teams. I took it from a poster who posts on another Nuggets board.

Player Min Own Opp Net On Off Net Rating
Nowitzki 63% 26.3 17.3 9 13.1 -9.5 22.7 13.6 Dirk off the court the Mavs are -23.5 per 100 possessions, Bet against the mavs when Dirk is hurt
Nash 63% 25 12.1 12.9 4.9 -13.6 18.4 14.7 Take nash off the Suns and they -14.2 per 100 possesions, when Nash is out bet against the Suns
Garnett 58% 23.3 13.8 9.5 14.4 -1.6 16 11.6 Take Garnett off the Celtics and -16.2 per 100 possesions
Gasol 79% 24.6 13 11.6 9.4 -6.4 15.8 13 Take Gasol off the Lakers and -13.9 per 100 possesions
Pierce 73% 21 11.8 9.3 11.7 -3.7 15.5 11.3 Take Pierce off the Celtics and -16.2 per 100 possessions
Aldridge 80% 20.8 15.6 5.2 3.5 -11.7 15.2 8.6 Take Aldridge off the Blazers and -16.7 per 100 possesions
Chandler 57% 19 18 1 11 -3.4 14.4 5.5 Take Chandler off the Mavs -16.8 per 100 possesions
Miles 44% 16.4 12.4 4 9.6 -3.5 13.2 7 CJ Miles makes the Jazz better, not sure how or why, but +13.4 per 100 possesions
Gasol 67% 17.2 13.4 3.8 4.7 -8.3 13 6.8 Marc Gasol Makes the Grizz better, +11.7 per 100 possesions
Conley 74% 16.3 18.1 -1.8 3.7 -9.2 12.9 3.1 M. Conley on the floor makes the Grizz 13.7 better
Fields 65% 15.6 12.6 3 5.7 -7.2 12.8 6.3 Landry Fields makes the Knicks 13.4 better
Paul 73% 28.9 17.1 11.9 5.1 -7.5 12.6 12.1 Without a doubt Chris Paul makes the Hornets 14.5 per 100 possessions better
Gay 78% 19.7 10.1 9.6 3.1 -9.3 12.4 10.5 Rudy g** makes the Grizz better by 14.1 per 100
Gibson 56% 15.6 19.3 -3.7 -3.9 -15.9 12.1 1.6 Despite the Cavs being in the minus column the Cavs are better with Gibson on the court
West 69% 21.9 15.1 6.8 5.3 -6.3 11.6 8.4 David West is a +12.7
Gordon 57% 13.1 13 0.1 0 -11.5 11.4 3.9 Ben Gordan +11
Ginobili 65% 24.1 11.8 12.3 11.5 0.9 10.6 11.7 Ginobli +10.1
Bosh 74% 21.7 13.9 7.8 12.3 1.9 10.4 8.7 Bosh +7.1
Villanueva 52% 17 21.1 -4.2 -0.2 -10.3 10.1 0.6 Cancer patient Charlie V +8.3
Miller 65% 19.9 14.9 5 4 -6.2 10.1 6.7 Andre Millers +11.2
Rondo 54% 20.5 10.9 9.6 12.2 2.3 9.9 9.7 Rondo +7.6
Scola 68% 20 18.2 1.7 3.9 -6 9.9 4.5 Scola +9
Carter 40% 17.4 12.6 4.7 11.1 1.3 9.7 6.4 Vince Carter +11.4, but thinking we can discount him
Dunleavy 60% 15.2 12.4 2.8 3.2 -6.5 9.7 5.1 Dunleavey +11.4? Gotta thnk he makes some difference
Wallace 64% 15.4 13.3 2.1 -1.3 -11 9.7 4.6 The Bobcats suck without G. Wallace +13.7 per 100 possesions
Holiday 72% 16.7 19.3 -2.6 1.9 -7.1 9 1.3 Jrue Holliday off the court makes the 76ers 9.1 per 100 possesions worse

I don't know how much I would read into it because it seems pretty clear to me that some players that aren't on the list should be, but it is still pretty shocking to see who made the list and who didn't. I didn't post it on your board because I don't want to over extend my welcome on there

I also agree with your over all assessment of Melo. In years past, I was about the only guy on the Nuggets board who thought the way you do about him, and I have taken my fair share of heat for posting my thoughts on the subject over the years.

Fields is a keeper, he has a good bball IQ and he seems to be willing to put in the work to get better. He reminds me of Afflalo with the little things that he does on the court that don't show up in the box score.

Knickplaya · Post #1276 » by **Knickplaya** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:38 am

8 rebounds tonight lol, im scared to check the Nets board, probally MVP chanting.

Post #1277 » by **knicks742** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:39 am

A lot of these arguments about how good Melo is or isn't were the same arguments we had about Amar'e vs Lee. How did that turn out for us?

Ron1 · Post #1278 » by **Ron1** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:39 am

What I would like to know other than why would people keep saying we don't need Melo, is this, is Donnie really gonna try to upgrade the roster and why isn't a healthy Eddie Curry playing.

TrueWarrior · Post #1279 » by **TrueWarrior** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:42 am

knicks742 wrote:A lot of these arguments about how good Melo is or isn't were the same arguments we had about Amar'e vs Lee. How did that turn out for us?

This is different because Amare has always been much more efficient offensively and a better defender than Lee. His advanced stats also showed a much greater impact, which is what this thread is about. The only area Lee had on Amare was rebounding, and as we're seeing now Amare's passing is getting better every game as he gets used to being a #1.

Amare >>> Melo as a #1 scorer. Its not even close.

Whatever though. Im not going to convince some people about Melo. Hes going to have to drastically alter his game if he comes here, and take a clear backseat to Amare.

Post #1280 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:42 am

Ron1 wrote:What I would like to know other than why would people keep saying we don't need Melo, is this, is Donnie really gonna try to upgrade the roster and why isn't a healthy Eddie Curry playing.

Because he is a fat piece of sh*t who doesn't deserve any time, and only hurts the team when he is on the floor