[Camelo Thread Part 8] - NJ Gets Threats From Denver!

[AllanHoustonFan]

I thought it was interesting that he talks about his experience in the media, then goes on to say, in a nice way, sometimes reporters lie. Not that we never suspected that.

What I find interesting about this is the whole timing of it. Earlier today a net beat writer said Prokorov's messenger took Avery to the side to talk with him which was very unusual and now he is blasting the media calling them liars? IDK but that sounds like damage control to me. I mean, yeah, I'm sure people make things up all the time but when EVERYONE was reporting the same thing, there has to be some truth behind it.

[Knickplaya]

I thought it was interesting that he talks about his experience in the media, then goes on to say, in a nice way, sometimes reporters lie. Not that we never suspected that.

What I find interesting about this is the whole timing of it. Earlier today, a beat writer said Prokorov's messenger took Avery to the side to talk with him which was very unusual and now he is blasting the media calling them liars? IDK but that sounds like damage control to me. I mean, yeah, I'm sure people make things up all the time but when EVERYONE was reporting the same thing, there has to be some truth behind it.

To me honestley it seems like Broussard kind of is piggybacking Sherridan's original reporting of Melo won't sign with anyone but NY (gradually at least), and he is getting most of the national credit for it (since it's the most recent reporting).

[TrueWarrior]

Jazz at home
3 days rest
team is entirely healthy

Knicks without Gallo
Douglas Hurt
Felton Ankle sprain
Amare hasd foul issues
end of a back to back on the road

Yet we still make a game of it.

We needed a solid center if anything.

yea i agree that we were at a huge disadv coming into the game. But my point was when situations like this happen with injuries and foul trouble, I'd be much more comfortable having a second go to guy in Melo (who would be the first go to guy in 90% of the other NBA teams). He would have also grabbed more than 3 boards that walker and williams managed to grab in their combined 60 minutes of play time. But they did play an amazing game tonight off the bench.

People want to say Melo would have helped our rebounding this game, but do people understand that the reason we didnt have many rebounding opportunities was because they didnt miss a shot? Is Melo a lockdown defender all of the sudden? He wouldnt have helped with nothing this game. Dont kid yourselves. The only reason we were in the game was because Williams and Walker went nuts from three with crazy efficiency, which is something Melo couldnt do.

As far as Melo being a #1 option on 90% of NBA teams, thats false. Melo being your #1 option is not going to get your team that far. So if anything you have to hope being a #2 behind Amare would make him more efficient. I think Melo is more like a great #2, mediocre #1. While Amare is a legit #1 option in every sense. He has it all in his repertoire and his percentages back it up. With Melo not so much. Hes a great #2 and thats what he should be here.

[Justdatdude]

Did people forget that Melo sucker punched Mardy Collins? What if it was Gallo he suckered punched or say Fields?

Melo is not worth 3 high quality future assets, an expiring, $20mil dollars, and 18FGA/gm, and ball stoppage galore are you kidding me


At what point does it sink in for those who are like cats in heat

He's worth all of that and if we trade for him, the Nuggets aren't getting all of that. Stop being dramatic. Gallinari isn't turning into a superstar, neither is Landry Fields. Chandler is a RFA and we're not winning a championship with him being our 2nd best player.

Each time you see Miami win a game and we lose to them, remember that we have no chance of beating them without Carmelo.

I know you're praying Carmelo plays bad against the Heat tomorrow because if he plays good and the Nuggets beat Miami, you will have a lot more people on here to convince Carmelo isn't worth 2 of Fields, Gallinari, and Chandler...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQJp_AoJ2cA[/youtube]

Our players aren't capable of that.

[Justdatdude]

As far as Melo being a #1 option on 90% of NBA teams, thats false. Melo being your #1 option is not going to get your team that far..

By far the dumbest thing ever said on this board, bar none.

[kingOfqueens]

I dont think anyone disagrees with you, but superstar Melo the last 3 years has only been a 44% shooter who still cant hit form behind the arc. He can get to the line no doubt, but hes not an efficient scorer overall considering his usage. For the money he is going to get paid and since scoring is his biggest strength, I expect better.

If we get him he has to be our #2 guy, up his percentages/shot selection, be a more willing passer, step up his D, and work on that three pt shot. I hope playing with Amare would give him better looks, because theres no reason he shouldnt be close to or above 50% from the field if hes only going to take 2 threes a game.
If he continues to shoot the way hes been IDK how anybody could be comfortable paying him so much. That is one aspect some people forget, not only are we probably going to lose a young player in a trade or FA to bring him here, but we will have to pay Melo MAX dollars. All Im saying is he better improve because Im not down with paying Glenn Robinson that kinda dough.

yea i posted this on another thread. But when melo had iverson on his team for the 07-08 season he shot 49%, hopefully im not wrong in assuming he'd be able to do that in NY with a second superstar next to him, especially in our system. I would expect melo's fg% to be around 50% and i also would expect amare to be a little higher too, if we land melo. I don't think he'll ever be a good 3pt shooter which could be a problem for D'antoni. If we're gonna get that second all star caliber player, now is the time, since chandler, gallo and felton (maybe TD?) all are going to need to be extended within the next 2 years pretty much killing our capspace.

[TrueWarrior]

As far as Melo being a #1 option on 90% of NBA teams, thats false. Melo being your #1 option is not going to get your team that far..

By far the dumbest thing ever said on this board, bar none.

The truth hurts. I know. Drink it in. Bask in it. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two .

[Justdatdude]

As far as Melo being a #1 option on 90% of NBA teams, thats false. Melo being your #1 option is not going to get your team that far..

By far the dumbest thing ever said on this board, bar none.

The truth hurts. I know. Drink it in. Bask in it. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two .

So who are the better first options than him?

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Dirk
Durant

Not that I agree with all 5 of them, but who else are you going to put in the conversation?

[TheBluest]

Did people forget that Melo sucker punched Mardy Collins? What if it was Gallo he suckered punched or say Fields?

Melo is not worth 3 high quality future assets, an expiring, $20mil dollars, and 18FGA/gm, and ball stoppage galore are you kidding me


At what point does it sink in for those who are like cats in heat

He's worth all of that and if we trade for him, the Nuggets aren't getting all of that. Stop being dramatic. Gallinari isn't turning into a superstar, neither is Landry Fields. Chandler is a RFA and we're not winning a championship with him being our 2nd best player.

Each time you see Miami win a game and we lose to them, remember that we have no chance of beating them without Carmelo.

You're punch drunk over Melo/Beasley comparison I know you ain't seein straight. And if what you say is fact then everyone should be content on him waiting to sign in the summer. I mean I know you wanted us to drop 247pts on the Jazz tonight with Melo just wait until 2011-12 and we will.

[ThePrez86]

did anyone read this, according to this - landry fields produces almost 3 times as many wins as melo. that can't be right.

Fields also has a top 10 adjusted +/-. Anybody can see what he does out on the floor when hes having a good game. Stop looking at volume scoring so much. Basketball is so much more than raw stats. Alot of these advanced stats pick up things guys like Fields and Gallo do, and why I favor them heavily.

Would Melo make us better? I guess a little but it depends how much we give up. Im really not convinced at all still that hes a superstar. Look how much we scored tonight. We need defense and rebounding. Melo is a 44% shooter who cant even hit threes. Whats so great about that again?

Exactly. The Knicks biggest deficiencies are (in no particular order):

-Big man defending the paint
-Rebounding
-Team defense
-Backup PG
-A legit 3pt sharpshooter

I don't see how Melo helps with any of that.

The Knicks biggest strength?

-Scoring (and lots of it)

They don't need another slasher/scorer. They have a TON of scoring. Each man knows his role and they ALL play within D'Antoni's system. And they all share. The funny thing is, Melo could end up hurting the offense by taking everybody out of their rhythm and trying to go one-on-one.

I don't like his game. I don't like his sourpuss attitude. And I don't want him on this team. And I ESPECIALLY don't want him if the team has to give up anything to get him. Even trading Gallo alone is too much for a guy who I think could end up hurting more than he's helping.

And no, he's not a Top 10 player. You get to be a Top 10 player by playing at both ends of the court (like Jordan or Pippen or Malone). Melo doesn't qualify.

[Justdatdude]

Did people forget that Melo sucker punched Mardy Collins? What if it was Gallo he suckered punched or say Fields?

Melo is not worth 3 high quality future assets, an expiring, $20mil dollars, and 18FGA/gm, and ball stoppage galore are you kidding me


At what point does it sink in for those who are like cats in heat

He's worth all of that and if we trade for him, the Nuggets aren't getting all of that. Stop being dramatic. Gallinari isn't turning into a superstar, neither is Landry Fields. Chandler is a RFA and we're not winning a championship with him being our 2nd best player.

Each time you see Miami win a game and we lose to them, remember that we have no chance of beating them without Carmelo.

You're punch drunk over Melo/Beasley comparison I know you ain't seein straight. And if what you say is fact then everyone should be content on him waiting to sign in the summer. I mean I know you wanted us to drop 247pts on the Jazz tonight with Melo just wait until 2011-12 and we will.

What does how I feel about Melo/Beasley have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with the Jazz game. You're saying Carmelo isn't worth Wilson Chandler, Gallinari, and Fields. That's what you're saying. Those 3 players are worth more than Carmelo. The best one of the trio isn't even an Allstar and they are worth more Carmelo.

Y'all don't get tired of overrating players? First it was Anthony Randolph. There was no way anyone would trade him and Gallo for Carmelo, and now everyone is willing to trade Anthony Randolph for a pick, to acquire Carmelo. Now Landry Fields is the new obsession where everyone will trade Gallo, but no to Fields in a Carmelo trade. Its ridiculous.

[TheBluest]

What does how I feel about Melo/Beasley have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with the Jazz game. You're saying Carmelo isn't worth Wilson Chandler, Gallinari, and Fields. That's what you're saying. Those 3 players are worth more than Carmelo. The best one of the trio isn't even an Allstar and they aern't worth Carmelo.

Y'all don't get tired of overrating players? First it was Anthony Randolph. There was no way anyone would trade him and Gallo for Carmelo, and now everyone is willing to trade Anthony Randolph for a pick, to acquire Carmelo. Now Landry Fields is the new obsession where everyone will trade Gallo, but no to Fields in a Carmelo trade. Its ridiculous.

Melo simply isn't worth those 3 collectively. I was high on AR in terms of raw potential in comparison with what we had but I've never deemed any of our players untouchable. 3 for 1.... Melo is not. We're not getting beat because we don't have a 2nd star.... what's so hard to grasp here?

[DowNY]

Do we put Chandler in a Melo trade knowing he would leave after the season & offer him the Full MLE? Maybe we make a behind the scenes deal with Wilson. So we can keep Gallo & Fields, get Melo, then sign Wil ....then go for some Centers through the draft & trades .....think that's realistic anyone?

[Justdatdude]

did anyone read this, according to this - landry fields produces almost 3 times as many wins as melo. that can't be right.

Fields also has a top 10 adjusted +/-. Anybody can see what he does out on the floor when hes having a good game. Stop looking at volume scoring so much. Basketball is so much more than raw stats. Alot of these advanced stats pick up things guys like Fields and Gallo do, and why I favor them heavily.

Would Melo make us better? I guess a little but it depends how much we give up. Im really not convinced at all still that hes a superstar. Look how much we scored tonight. We need defense and rebounding. Melo is a 44% shooter who cant even hit threes. Whats so great about that again?

Exactly. The Knicks biggest deficiencies are (in no particular order):

-Big man defending the paint
-Rebounding
-Team defense
-Backup PG
-A legit 3pt sharpshooter

I don't see how Melo helps with any of that.

The Knicks biggest strength?

-Scoring (and lots of it)

They don't need another slasher/scorer. They have a TON of scoring. Each man knows his role and they ALL play within D'Antoni's system. And they all share. The funny thing is, Melo could end up hurting the offense by taking everybody out of their rhythm and trying to go one-on-one.

I don't like his game. I don't like his sourpuss attitude. And I don't want him on this team. And I ESPECIALLY don't want him if the team has to give up anything to get him. Even trading Gallo alone is too much for a guy who I think could end up hurting more than he's helping.

And no, he's not a Top 10 player. You get to be a Top 10 player by playing at both ends of the court (like Jordan or Pippen or Malone). Melo doesn't qualify.

Lets try to play this game in which we name the top 10 players in the league that are good on both ends. Not average, but good.

Lebron
Wade

I'm stuck. Unless we're going to put KG and Duncan as top 10 players? Maybe we're going to rewind the clock to when Kobe was still a good defender? We're possibly going to pretend to know basketball and claim Deron Williams and Derrick Rose are good defenders? Of course you can run to the argument for Kobe that he's good on defense when he want to be, but the same can be said for a lot of players, even Carmelo. So name your top 10 players that play on both ends.

[GONYK]

Do we put Chandler in a Melo trade knowing he would leave after the season & offer him the Full MLE? Maybe we make a behind the scenes deal with Wilson. So we can keep Gallo & Fields, get Melo, then sign Wil ....then go for some Centers through the draft & trades .....think that's realistic anyone?

That would be great if you want to lose all of our picks and possibly exceptions for the next 10 years

[Justdatdude]

What does how I feel about Melo/Beasley have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with the Jazz game. You're saying Carmelo isn't worth Wilson Chandler, Gallinari, and Fields. That's what you're saying. Those 3 players are worth more than Carmelo. The best one of the trio isn't even an Allstar and they aern't worth Carmelo.

Y'all don't get tired of overrating players? First it was Anthony Randolph. There was no way anyone would trade him and Gallo for Carmelo, and now everyone is willing to trade Anthony Randolph for a pick, to acquire Carmelo. Now Landry Fields is the new obsession where everyone will trade Gallo, but no to Fields in a Carmelo trade. Its ridiculous.

Melo simply isn't worth those 3 collectively. I was high on AR in terms of raw potential in comparison with what we had but I've never deemed any of our players untouchable. 3 for 1.... Melo is not. We're not getting beat because we don't have a 2nd star.... what's so hard to grasp here?

I disagree though. I do feel we're getting beat by teams like the Heat because we don't have a second star. You don't have to agree, but do you disagree with this...We're going to plan an imaginary game. If we keep the team we have and add a defensive center (a guy like Camby), is this team capable of beating Miami? I say no. What do you think? And tell me why for your answer.

[TrueWarrior]

So who are the better first options than him?

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Dirk
Durant

Not that I agree with all 5 of them, but who else are you going to put in the conversation?

Maybe the point is that there arent many true #1 scoring options? Just because a guy is putting up numbers doesnt mean much.

And I would put Amare above Melo, with Rose, Deron, Pierce, Granger, Gordon, Monta, Roy (when healthy), Manu, Martin, and Dwight in the conversation at least. You could say Melo has the repertoire but his numbers dont back it up right now do they?

If anything his tenure with Iverson showed that Melo is a #2, or at most a #1B. As a #1 his FG% has been very mediocre throughout the years. 05-06 was the lone exception but that was 5 years ago. His last 3 years have been pretty BLAH as far as FG%, TS%, Offensive Rating, and Offensive Win Shares are concerned, and its been backed up with getting bounced in the playoffs year after year besides one lone run. Compare that to Amare now who is shooting 51% from the field with a 57% TS% as a #1, with a higher O Rating and Win Shares. The proof is in the numbers if you even need to look at them.

Seriously what makes Melo any better than Glenn Robinson? What? If Melo didnt come into the league with LeBron as the "next big things" would people look at him the same?

[kingOfqueens]

The only reason you go after him is cuz he's available and probably will come cheap. By 2012 stats gonna be making $20mil, chandler if we chose to sign him would make at least $10, gallo would cost $8?, felton would be $10+ thats at lease $48mil which leaves less $12 mil for the other 8 players.. theres no chance of really going anywhere if we don't get a second star here now. You get melo here now you can use bird rights to sign the players mentioned above, you could then trade pieces.. gallo for center etc. and draft wisely. But you wanna lock up 2 star players while you still have solid role players on rookie contracts.As of right now Melo is the only one readily available, and tho he may not be my #1 choice to have here, if he comes at a discounted rate ill gladly take him.

[kingOfqueens]

The only reason you go after him is cuz he's available and probably will come cheap. By 2012 stats gonna be making $20mil, chandler if we chose to sign him would make at least $10, gallo would cost $8?, felton would be $10+ thats at lease $48mil which leaves less $12 mil for the other 8 players.. theres no chance of really going anywhere if we don't get a second star here now. You get melo here now you can use bird rights to sign the players mentioned above, you could then trade pieces.. gallo for center etc. and draft wisely. But you wanna lock up 2 star players while you still have solid role players on rookie contracts. As of right now Melo is the only one readily available, and tho he may not be my #1 choice to have here, if he comes at a discounted rate ill gladly take him.

[Justdatdude]

Maybe the point is that there arent many true #1 scoring options? Just because a guy is putting up numbers doesnt mean much.

And I would put Amare above Melo, with Rose, Deron, Pierce, Granger, Gordon, Monta, and Dwight in the conversation at least. You could say Melo has the repertoire but his numbers dont back it up right now do they?

So now Carmelo isn't that good of a scorer and Rose, Deron, Pierce, Granger, Gordon, Monta, and Dwight are better scoring options than Carmelo or at least in the conversation? Ok. You have your take, I have mine. We can take this on the general board, but they will laugh, and you guys will call them haters. So we're just going to leave it at me and you disagreeing. I'm not going to debate with you why the player most view as one of the top 3 scorers in the league is not a legit #1 option.