Oh Snap, Where's the Game Thread?!

[SteveNets15]

Oh...and this team should have shown more patience with TWill. Or Lee (MURPHY!!!!! OMG WHAT A GREAT TRADE THAT WAS!!!!)

We're supposed to be rebuilding so they trade away two young players for two veteran expiring contracts.

[Rich Rane]

ugh. wasn't the first time we heard a trade for melo it was just going to be like favors and murphy and 2 draft picks? that would've been great in my opinion.

It was or something around that deal. Then for no reason, we outbid (and are continuing) to outbid ourselves.

I don't get the Avery hate either, at all. He makes mistakes like all coaches do. But he can't play for the players. He can't put a seat belt on them and make sure they don't turn the ball over. He can't teach Travis Outlaw how to hit wide open 3's. This team is really, really bad. I'm actually shocked we have 10 wins. I like Avery Johnson a lot.

Substitution patterns, play-calling on the offensive end...things Avery isn't good at and things that can cost teams games. It's not right to put all the blame on him, but there are things where you have to ask what the is he thinking?

[Knickplaya]

...We're not gonna get better if we get 1 good player out of the draft...because everyone else sucks. GOD. we need to at least get rid of outlaw and bring someone up from d league for all I care. SCREW YOU PROKY. i hate you

To my knowledge, Mikhail Prokhorov doesn't read our forums so addressing him may fall on deaf ears.

We'll be stuck with using the MLE offseason after offseason while letting every available huge FA sign with another team and we just may be just as well an unattractive trading partner with other teams with no picks and huge contracts and either late/just outside of the lottery picks.

.

MLE is one of the things that has been reported/rumored to be a neutral ground of termination for the next CBA. The MLE will be gone, no doubt about it. There is gona be a harder cap, so therefore they are not going to allow you to exceed it with the MLE.

[Rich Rane]

MLE is one of the things that has been reported/rumored to be a neutral ground of termination for the next CBA. The MLE will be gone, no doubt about it. There is gona be a harder cap, so therefore they are not going to allow you to exceed it with the MLE.

All the more reason why I don't support the rumored Melo deals, if true or not.

[SteveNets15]

...We're not gonna get better if we get 1 good player out of the draft...because everyone else sucks. GOD. we need to at least get rid of outlaw and bring someone up from d league for all I care. SCREW YOU PROKY. i hate you

To my knowledge, Mikhail Prokhorov doesn't read our forums so addressing him may fall on deaf ears.

Now...when I (or other Nets fans) say long term, we seriously mean long term. This team needs to get rid of several contracts along with stopping the giving of long and huge contracts. We need to rebuild through the draft and use any future cap space wisely to get back on top again. This isn't going to be done quickly with 1 draft. Gutting young talent and picks for huge contracts in Melo, Rip, Billups, and Harrington gets us low seeds in the playoffs and first round exits to teams like Miami, Orlando, and Boston for the next few years. We'll be stuck with using the MLE offseason after offseason while letting every available huge FA sign with another team and we just may be just as well an unattractive trading partner with other teams with no picks and huge contracts and either late/just outside of the lottery picks.

But hey, if this were SOMEHOW to get us to land CP3 through trade or free agency, I'd be 100% behind it. Until then, it's incredibly hard to see that happening.

At this point i'm on the fence with this subject because who the hell is going to sign here?You seen what just happen this past off season right?Even after the trade we will still have 3 picks to work with and we can buy billups out for small price if we want to.I haven't looked at the #s but Is the MLE really all we will be able to offer?I mean at this point i don't even care about the slow build because i know the trade is going down next week.I can't wait for it to happen already just so we can move on and crunch the #s to see how we can make the team even better through more trades and possible FAs.

[Rich Rane]

At this point i'm on the fence with this subject because who the hell is going to sign here?You seen what just happen this past off season right?Even after the trade we will still have 3 picks to work with and we can buy billups out for small price if we want to.I haven't looked at the #s but Is the MLE really all we will be able to offer?I mean at this point i don't even care about the slow build because i know the trade is going down next week.I can't wait for it to happen already just so we can move on and crunch the #s to see how we can make the team even better through more trades and possible FAs.

Look up Billups, Harrington, and Rip's contract, while also holding onto Outlaw and Farmar. Then add on Melo's extension and the possibility we extend Brook's contract (vc4pres estimated averaged $10 million). Here's his post from the Melo thread.

OK, I'm just gonna do a rough estimate right now, I'll do it exact a little later, I promise.

It will also wind up different depending on what players we send out, but I'm going to assume Devin, Chocolate Rain and Petro are no longer on the team.

Without Rip's buyout...
About $54 million including 5 cap holds for roster spots, plus Brook's estimated $7.8 million cap hold and this isn't including any free agent signings and this is also not including any draft picks we have left and retained, nor resigning Hump, Sasha or Chauncey.

The roster breakdown would be:
Melo
Brook's cap hold
Outlaw
Farmar
Al Harrington
Damion James
Rip
5 roster spot cap holds at approximately $440 K each.

For a grand total of $61.8 million and that's before Brook gets his real extension that I assume will be in the neighborhood of a starting salary around $10 million, meaning the official # would be $about $64 million plus the inevitable 2 years of MLE, plus BAE, plus any of our FA's we retained through Bird Rights.

Deduct $3.5 million if you buy Rip out and add another $440 K for his roster spot hold.

Basically the team is completely capped out, actually over it, with absolutely no way to sign a big time impact free agent, just the MLE and no starting point guard or shooting guard and no backup center with Al Harrington as our starting power forward.

This is all for 2012.

It's eerily similar this coming offseason and if Chauncey wanted us to pick up his option we're in luxo tax territory next year, even including that Brook's salary would be about $3 million in comparison with his $7.8 million cap hold in 2012.

We become a super limited upside bottom 4 seeded playoff team with no real assets to dramatically improve unless Dark Lord Stern gifts us Chris Paul or we draft an instant super star with a pick in the late teens to early 20's.

Capped out, old, devoid of assets and the players we have Bird Rights too aren't even really worth resigning and going into the tax for.

Oooh, bring me some Melo though, I love me some Melo, give me a double dose of Melo, cause then weez contendazz.

And if it's true that there's a hard cap in the new CBA, that's as close to as good as it'll get for us.

[SteveNets15]

Ok that sucks.But we still have draft picks to package with these bad contracts if we needed to dump salary or get a player we want.You see this is why i want this Melo drama to be over already so we can just move on already.I need a list of all the possible FAs the next 2-3 years also.Once this is over we need a thread dedicated to this kind of stuff.Theres other trades that can be made we'll still have some assests to work with.

[JoseRizal]

Wasn't able to watch the game. Whay was Brook benched in the 4th?

[SteveNets15]

Don't get me wrong i would rather have Devin and Morrow stay over Billups and Rip.But thats just not going to happen at some point we have to come to terms with reality.The trade is going to happen.The slow rebuild is over.

[SteveNets15]

because he he missed his first shot off the bench.Avery thought he should be on fire

[624]

Favors starts the game, plays great....and gets 18 minutes in an OT game.


I love Avery

[vincecarter4pres]

Don't get me wrong i would rather have Devin and Morrow stay over Billups and Rip.But thats just not going to happen at some point we have to come to terms with reality.The trade is going to happen.The slow rebuild is over.

I would rather Billups then Harris all day if we get Melo, but Rip is a deal breaker without Outlaw outgoing.

I would be so much more on board with this if somehow we could cut Detroit out and swing something with Phoenix where we wind up with Melo, Nash, VC and Channing Frye coming here with Brook, Morrow, Outlaw, Devin, Murphy and some other salary filler outgoing.

I would have no problem giving up the GSW and our 2011 pick, the Houston pick, hell even our 2013 pick in that scenario, because not only would that team be very competitive this year and next, but everyone basically comes off the cap in 2012, Favors will still be on a rookie deal and therefore we can go after CP3, Deron, etc., whoever the best of the rest that make it to free agency.

I still have faith in Brook, but I just see a lot of upside in Favors. I don't know if he ever becomes this straight up beast, top player, but I think his floor is quite high, so you at least wind up with a prime Kenyon Martin type and all this while retaining us that 2012 flexibility even if we burn almost every pick imaginable in the deal.

[vincecarter4pres]

...We're not gonna get better if we get 1 good player out of the draft...because everyone else sucks. GOD. we need to at least get rid of outlaw and bring someone up from d league for all I care. SCREW YOU PROKY. i hate you

To my knowledge, Mikhail Prokhorov doesn't read our forums so addressing him may fall on deaf ears.

We'll be stuck with using the MLE offseason after offseason while letting every available huge FA sign with another team and we just may be just as well an unattractive trading partner with other teams with no picks and huge contracts and either late/just outside of the lottery picks.

.

MLE is one of the things that has been reported/rumored to be a neutral ground of termination for the next CBA. The MLE will be gone, no doubt about it. There is gona be a harder cap, so therefore they are not going to allow you to exceed it with the MLE.

I've read about this too, but I just won't believe it until it happens.

The players union is going to be all over this. Without MLE, you're going to have a ton of guys that probably should be making more then the MLE instead making vet minimum 3 to 7 years before they should be playing for that type of discount.

I know the owners argument will be it's to level the playing field, cut costs in general and stop some of the smaller overall but longer albatross contracts, but nobody's holding a gun to the owners heads telling them to sign Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, Diop, Travis Outlaw, etc., to these ridiculous contracts that they give out on the regular.

It's going to be argued the most obvious. You don't want to overpay scrubs just cause they won't play for your team any other way, don't.

They might help for a season or two, but most of the time they wind up with buyer's remorse almost immediately and most of the more knowledgeable fans could have told them that was going to happen before they signed these guys to begin with.

I think what is more likely will be a compromise.
There will be restrictions and regulations on the MLE.
Maybe maximum length will be 4 seasons.
Maybe teams will only be able to use the MLE once every two years, like a big BAE.
Maybe there will be a lot more non-guaranteed contracts, but with signing bonuses that don't count towards the cap, similar to the NFL.
There are going to be some big changes, but eliminating the MLE completely is not one I see as realistic.

Neither is a straight up hard cap.

I do think there maybe a soft cap with a hard cap ceiling, where you just cannot go more then say $15 million over the regular cap.

I mean you had teams like the Knicks with a $100 million dollar payroll, there are teams now into the $80's, if not higher.

I think the actual cap will go up to maybe $60 million based on revenues and maybe there will be a restriction where you cannot go above say $72 or $75 million and if you do you are forced to trade away salary until you get below it and if you cannot deal players you must cut them and pay them their salary, with whatever team picks them up off setting the amount.

[SpeedyG]

LoL....level the playing field *says hi to the Heat's 2.5 stars*

[vincecarter4pres]

LoL....level the playing field *says hi to the Heat's 2.5 stars*

I wish I had two more hands, I'd give you 4 thumbs down.

[halfHAVOC]

suns got lucky that game, im still disappointed in the way brook plays

im starting to dislike brook more and more every game.