Draft Talk

[ajaX82]

Jenkins, the corner from Florida, is staying in school apparently so we won't be picking him

[Liqourish]

If you can find me a post by you about wanting the Lions to draft Blount, I'll believe you. Otherwise I'm going to call baloney on you claiming you knew all of the breakout RBs of the year were going to be awesome before the season.

Anyways, looks like Andrew Luck is staying in school for another year. That is going to affect the mocks quite a bit...

To be fair, TSE was around here during the draft last April so if he mentioned Blount, it wouldn't be far fetched. I don't remember him mentioning Blount, I know me and bartender talked about Blount and Piston Pete was against Blount. I also remember a couple of us mentioning Jahvid Best after Kevin Smith got hurt. Bartender was high on Dexter McCluster who has done well in Kansas City.

I do remember TSE claiming that Suh would NOT be a Lion, Mayhew would trade the pick and Suh was nothing more than our last resort and that we should mark his words.

[Liqourish]

Jenkins, the corner from Florida, is staying in school apparently so we won't be picking him

Good, I don't care for him as a 1st round pick.

Travis Lewis returning to school shocked me a little, I thought he could have been an option for us at 13. Not alot of 1st rd LB options. I'm not sold on Von Miller, he's a 3-4 LB or a 4-3 DE... and we don't really need him here. We need a 4-3 LB who can play well in coverage. Miller can't.

We could be out of reach for Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara. Not alot of CB help in the 1st either after those two.

This draft isn't nearly as stacked as last years draft.

[Piston Pete]

If you can find me a post by you about wanting the Lions to draft Blount, I'll believe you. Otherwise I'm going to call baloney on you claiming you knew all of the breakout RBs of the year were going to be awesome before the season.

Anyways, looks like Andrew Luck is staying in school for another year. That is going to affect the mocks quite a bit...

To be fair, TSE was around here during the draft last April so if he mentioned Blount, it wouldn't be far fetched. I don't remember him mentioning Blount, I know me and bartender talked about Blount and Piston Pete was against Blount. I also remember a couple of us mentioning Jahvid Best after Kevin Smith got hurt. Bartender was high on Dexter McCluster who has done well in Kansas City.

I do remember TSE claiming that Suh would NOT be a Lion, Mayhew would trade the pick and Suh was nothing more than our last resort and that we should mark his words.

Confirmed, I was not high on Blount. Although he has proven me wrong, I'm still not that high on him.....just think he relies too much on his size and will eventually break down.

[ajaX82]

Blount still doesnt do it for me. I forsee a Lendale White type career arch personally

but w/e. its not like we are aquiring him anytime soon. And I don't think he is in this years draft...

[cochiseuofm]

I actually went back and checked last year's thread about the draft. Blount was mentioned several times by at least three of you guys, TSE was posting actively in the thread and not once did he even say Blount's name, much less call to draft him. Maybe he did elsewhere, not in that thread though.

Blount is a lot better than White ever was already though. White had good TD numbers cause he stole goal line carries from Chris Johnson a lot. And his yards per carry average was never better than four when he got a fair amount of carries. I always hated him for taking carries away from Johnson because of fantasy football reasons.

Blount is a big guy, but he isn't fat like LenDale was. His biggest issue has always been off-the-field. If he has shored that up, there is no question Tampa Bay got a huge steal.

Anyways, I know we're off topic so I'll stop posting on this here.

[kellmellus50]

Why do you guys question TSE ? after blount was released TSE said this:

Report this postReply with quoteRe: New York Jets at Detroit Sun, 11/07 at 1:00 PM EST
by TSE on Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:13 pm

Incorrect application of logic there. I defy doing anything that doesn't make sense. And it has happened to be that the Lions have done a lot of that in their recent past, and it is due to the poor quality of those decisions that I argue against them, not because they are Lions' decisions. The bad choices that we make is a broader category that I comment on than that of the amount of mistakes the Lions make, considering that not every decision the Lions make is a bad one. In fact this year I've said many times that the Lions have done a lot better job with their decisions and strategy than in the past. It still can be improved but they still get full credit from me for any of the things they do get right, like snagging LJ the DE and Alphonso, but then at the same token I bash them when we keep guys like Morris and Brown over Legarrette Blount. I'm not biased against the Lions in any way, I'm 100% fair in stating my opinion for each and every isolated decision as a stand alone decision.TSE
Pro Prospect

[Liqourish]

^ That was posted November 2nd. After Blounts 120 yd/2 TD game against the Cardinals. Got anything before Blount was doing well in the NFL?

[Icness]

A handful of guys I want the Lions to look at in the later rounds:

Jake Kirkpatrick, C, TCU--Rimington Award winner despite only playing football for 4 years. Late bloomer that has a lot of similarities to Ryan Kalil, the best center in the NFL this year, not real strong but gets good leverage and explodes off the snap to compensate. Can long-snap too, which can preserve a roster spot while he develops in 2011.

Jabara Williams, LB, Stephen F. Austin--he's light, probably played at 220, but he is lightning-quick and hits hard. Looked pretty sound in coverage drops and he knows how to jam a TE at the line. Stayed on the field in 4-wide sets and handled his business pretty well in the games I saw. 7th rounder or a priority FA, but he could rise up a little if he bulks up.

James Cleveland, WR, Houston--if you follow the Big Ten you might remember him from Iowa, where he was Frosh of the Year a few years back. Transferred back home, gained about 15 pounds of needed muscle. What I like about him is that he stayed productive despite having 4 different QBs at UH this year and you could see him adjust his style to fit what suited the given QB better. Probably won't break 4.55 in the 40 and he doesn't do much after the catch, but he catches everything near him, blocks, and uses his body to present a target well, and he uses his strength to get open a la Hines Ward. Good potential #4 WR that can play special teams too.

Eugene Clifford, S, Tennessee State--another ex-Big Ten guy (he started at Ohio State), he leaps off game film. Excellent ball-hawking skills, great timing on his hits. In one game he physically separated the receiver from the ball three different times, picked off another pass, and executed a perfect run blitz that nailed the back for a 2-yard loss. What really stands out is his closing speed. He's not unlike Taylor Mays in that regard; he sees, he seeks, he destroys. Like Mays, not the most instinctive in coverage, relies heavily on just being a superior athlete. He's probably not more than 200 pounds even though he's got huge thighs, he can squat something like 540. Reminds me a lot of former Ohio Bobcat and Raiders 2nd rounder Mike Mitchell. I believe he'll be in the Shrine game, watch for him.

[TSE]

^ That was posted November 2nd. After Blounts 120 yd/2 TD game against the Cardinals. Got anything before Blount was doing well in the NFL?

So what do I win if I can provide posts before that date on another site? And again I have been adamantly a Blount supporter since the day the fight broke out and he would have been on my team no matter which of the 32 teams I could represent. This was a great year for RBs as UDFA or waiver wire, and we could have had a set of 3 promising young rookies and turned Best and Morris and Smith and Brown into other help, we didn't need to invest in ANY of those 4 guys, that's the power of Blount and Woodhead, they play for nothing and could be better than those guys and the difference from them compared to Best isn't big enough to pay that price as there are MUCH MUCH better positions you can upgrade at where it does make logical sense to pay the price to do so. Opportunities to pick up massive upside deals like that are scarce and you can't afford to miss one especially when it's so obvious. How could you not want this guy on your team with the physical and athletic skills, the college production clearly showing he was a high-level player, and the observation that he is overjuiced with passion. That's such a deadly complete set of variables for a guy that's basically free. You'd have to be crazy not to want to have him regardless of how he performed. Even if he ran 500 times this year for a 2.0 avg, the sentiment would be the same. Not the sentiment that I think he's a potentially good player, but the sentiment behind the strategy to pick him and find out for yourself instead of letting another team do it. You win some and you lose some and you are more likely to lose than win with waiver players, but you don't have to have a very high conversion pct to make it worthwhile, especially when you have bottlenecks at that position that you can't maximize full value out of except maybe when you trade them.

Oh and I also said we should have picked Clinton Portis with our 2nd round pick in 2002 immediately after not picking him. I was livid about that at the time, sorry no link or video evidence to support that though, oh darn so I can't get credit for liking Portis and Blount; I'll somehow have to find a way to cope with that.

[cochiseuofm]

I said it before and I'll say it again, "If you don't care what I think, then just don't take offense to when I don't believe your claims."

For the record, I see no point in bragging on a public forum, then claiming you don't care what other people think when they read and question you. Either you do care and you want some reaction out of us for having a good eye for talent, or you don't care and you don't post about it. No one comes to a forum and consistently talks about themselves without any prompting for no reason in my experience.

[Liqourish]

I said it before and I'll say it again, "If you don't care what I think, then just don't take offense to when I don't believe your claims."

For the record, I see no point in bragging on a public forum, then claiming you don't care what other people think when they read and question you. Either you do care and you want some reaction out of us for having a good eye for talent, or you don't care and you don't post about it. No one comes to a forum and consistently talks about themselves without any prompting for no reason in my experience.

Post of the Year!!!

[Bartender]

Ice, what's the deal with Eugene Clifford? He has an interception in nearly every game he's ever played in and was the number two overall DB coming out of high school... not only that but he's six two and 205 pounds with a 4.4 forty.

What issues does this guy have?

[TSE]

I said it before and I'll say it again, "If you don't care what I think, then just don't take offense to when I don't believe your claims."

For the record, I see no point in bragging on a public forum, then claiming you don't care what other people think when they read and question you. Either you do care and you want some reaction out of us for having a good eye for talent, or you don't care and you don't post about it. No one comes to a forum and consistently talks about themselves without any prompting for no reason in my experience.

Who's bragging? I'm not bragging. We were just talking about 1 or 2 players, and anybody can get lucky on 1 or 2 players whether they know anything about football or not. It's not a qualified scenario to brag about. Blount is not in the HOF yet, he only played one season, what if the next 10 seasons he averages only 2.0 yards per carry, doesn't make me look too good then. There's no proof that he's a great player and will continue to be a great player, when there is, then I could brag about it, but not now. All I'm doing now is professing hard that it is bad strategy to let promising prospects slip by when you are already carrying a bunch of worthless players in comparison to what a breakout player would be worth. I never guaranteed anybody that Blount would be good, all I ever said was that the cost to get him combined with the payoff if he breaks out combined with his odds of breaking out, made him to me the #1 best value RB in college football. I would take him over Best any day, cause he is free and Best costs a 1st round pick, and I would rather have a Jahvid Best at CB or LB or OT or DL with Blount at RB, then to not have Blount or the defensive player and only have Best. I think my way gets 2 good players instead of 1, and there's a better chance in my mind that Blount can perform similarly or better than Best than there is for our journeymen CBs to be equal or better than a 1st Rd CB.

[TSE]

I said it before and I'll say it again, "If you don't care what I think, then just don't take offense to when I don't believe your claims."

For the record, I see no point in bragging on a public forum, then claiming you don't care what other people think when they read and question you. Either you do care and you want some reaction out of us for having a good eye for talent, or you don't care and you don't post about it. No one comes to a forum and consistently talks about themselves without any prompting for no reason in my experience.

Post of the Year!!!

I think his post is flawed for incorrectly perceiving me to be posting with a bragging mentality, and his set of conditions of which one must be true but I see neither to be true. He made a lousy junk post and you compliment him on it? It's only 2 weeks into the new year and he's already go the post of the year? Is that post of the year so far, and why so excited to announce the post of the year of the first 2 weeks, or are you trying to suggest his post is so good that no post for the rest of the year can top it? You guys are weird for the record, your post so far to me is the worst post of the year. Instead of patting your crazy friend on the back for a bunch of hogwash, why don't you try to talk about football issues instead of playing games for a change and trying to encourage more silly immature and illogical banter.

[TSE]

Ice, what's the deal with Eugene Clifford? He has an interception in nearly every game he's ever played in and was the number two overall DB coming out of high school... not only that but he's six two and 205 pounds with a 4.4 forty.

What issues does this guy have?

Suspended by OSU for violating team rules and had some assault charges mentioned on his wiki page, so he had to transfer and is one of those possible character concerns. Although I will say in advance that I would want him on the Lions. So if he becomes good you heard about it here right now from me! See how easy this is? I would already cut our weakest vet CB for him if he was a UDFA like Blount was. I have NEVER seen this guy play, but logically I can infer that his potential for the future based upon just a few comments here, and the obvious low cost of being a UDFA, his youth upside, all of that is already worth more than some of our present players. I dont have to scout him to know I would want him and that we would be better off by trading Vasher for him today if we were allowed to do that. Have you seen this guy play? Would you trade Vasher for him straight up right now? It doesn't mean I am banking on Clifford to be good, but I already know that rolling the dice with him is worth more than what we presently have at that position. Hope that Clifford will be good is good enough, just as it was with Woodhead and Blount and dozens of other money player prospects that were no-brainers that we for whatever reason passed up over the years. Nobody in our 4-5 ranked CB spots are going to have any shot of making a pro bowl or HOF, but Clifford could, probably not if we play the odds, but I still say his odds are better than the already proven losers that we pay big bucks to in exchange for them stunting our growth.

[cochiseuofm]

And I have correctly predicted more breakout players (and the highest % as well) to strategically acquire than any other person on the planet has that I am aware of.

This was something you said in this very thread TSE. That isn't bragging to you? You claiming you have not only picked out the most breakout players, but also have the highest percentage rate of picking them isn't bragging? And I'm not just referring to this thread either when I say you brag, I'm referring to a lot of different posts by you. It is a general vibe that bounces off of your posts.

[TSE]

I wasn't bragging about it, i was just making a statement to give background on the formulation of my perspective.

[Bartender]

These were two of my quotes from the draft thread:

Blair White, LaGarette Blount


Those 2 left on the board and we end up with Tim Toone. Wtf?!

Would much rather drop / trade Mo Morris and Kevin Smith and have a Blount / Best 1-2 Punch similar to Brandon Jacobs / Ahmad Bradshaw in New York.

I guess that's just a pipe dream though.

I see no post by you, TSE, in the entire draft thread mentioning Blount. I guess that makes me > you.

As your scouting superior, I ban you from the planet Earth.

[cochiseuofm]

I wasn't bragging about it, i was just making a statement to give background on the formulation of my perspective.

You later also said:

I'm not a master of understanding and breaking down the players and strategies of hockey as I am at football, that's my #1 game of games, or close to being tied with baseball

This was all in response to me asking for you to show me where you posted about Blount. Do you think I asked for a three page lecture on how you are a master of understanding football in response to my simple request for proof you posted about Blount? No one asked about that, dude that is called bragging.