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Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

Percent Chance that Blatche stops Kevin Love:

0%
16
73%
1-25%
2
9%
25-50%
1
5%
50-75%
0
No votes
75-DOMINATION STATION
3
14%
 
Total votes: 22

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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#261 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:17 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Well part of the reason is because wall has terrible handle, he can't seem to pass the ball with one hand in the middle of his dribble so he can't stall two defenders with his dribble because its so poor. Secondly, John Wall can only go one speed so he can't throw defenders off balance in the half court with dribble, and finally our bigs don't know how to make a wide passing lane to receive the ball because of low bball iq and they never seem to be able to force a switch on the pick and role because they aren't strong with their pick and seem to not know what has to be accomplished in order to get an advantage on a pick and roll before they roll to the basket. Poor coaching and lack of athleticism and technique and the fact that Flip doesn't have a reputable big man coach on among his assistants. Leonsis is at fault for that one.


holy cow. longest sentence ever. idk about walls inability to pass with one hand. weve seen him start a fast break only to wing it one handed to a corner shooter, plenty of times
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#262 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:02 pm

There is no doubt that Wall and the bigs need to get much better at running a pick and roll. My question is: why haven't they?
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#263 » by dobrojim » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:08 pm

cue CCJ

:)
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#264 » by LyricalRico » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:15 pm

nate33 wrote:Why is it that Luke freaking Ridnoir can pick-and-roll us to death with Milicic in the 4th quarter but John Wall can't run a pick-and-roll with Yi or Lewis? Why couldn't we stop Beno freaking Udrih and Fransisco Garcia? Gerald Hendrson? DJ Augustin? Willie Green? Surely, those guys aren't any better offensively than Young, Lewis, Hinrich and Wall. I'm not asking us to outperform Wade, Kobe and Durant down the stretch, but maybe we should be able to beat some of these crappy teams every now and then.

Our problem seems like it's more execution than talent. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's Flip's fault, but I don't buy that we lack the talent to compete against other lousy teams.


Agree. This is a problem and I don't think you can put it all on Flip. There just isn't a culture of "scrap until you win because you hate to lose" with these guys. Even a guy like Wall who is supremely talented, never really had to consistently overcome on-court adversity at KU. They would just blow people out. And other guys like Blatche, McGee, and Young know nothing but losing in the NBA.

We need to find a guy who can be the heart and soul of this bunch. Somebody who's got the fire and determination to will a team to victory. Then the other guys will have somebody to look to for how it's done. Not sure who that is, but I think that's the key.
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#265 » by fugop » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:27 pm

KU is Kansas. Kentucky is UK.

There were some pretty fantastic explanations of Flip's offensive sets back around the time that he was hired., with analysis of each of the positional skills. Anyone recall where those were, or able to point me toward something similar?

I know it's boring, but I would really like to have an offense that features the pick and roll. With EJ and now Flip, it seems like we have been running offenses that overlook the bread and butter for a decade.
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#266 » by Nivek » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:48 pm

I see a few reasons why the Wizards aren't very good at s/r.

1) The bigs don't set physical screens. No amount of coaching is going to persuade a guy who wants to avoid getting hit to stand in there and get hit. The Wizards bigs want to play slip-screen and shoot the ball -- they don't want to help a teammate get free.

2) Wall does a crappy of using screens. He doesn't dribble close enough to the screener to use it effectively.

3) Wall is a bad jump shooter. Opposing defenses can ALWAYS play under the screen, which means that even in the rare event that a big sets a solid screen and Wall uses it properly, he still probably won't get free because the defender will just be standing there waiting for him. With the guard playing under, the big doesn't even have to show -- he can just stay with the Wizards' screener.

4) The Wizards' bigs pretty much suck. Yi can play pick & pop, but all he's going to do is flare out for a long two, which opposing defenses are happy to concede. Blatche can theoretically play pick & pop or true s/r, but he's not a physical screener, he's not disciplined enough to hold his position, and once he gets the ball the odds of him scoring aren't all that great. McGee isn't skilled enough to do anything but roll to the basket and catch a lob. Booker and Seraphin aren't even that skilled.

nate33 wrote:Why is it that Luke freaking Ridnoir can pick-and-roll us to death with Milicic in the 4th quarter but John Wall can't run a pick-and-roll with Yi or Lewis? Why couldn't we stop Beno freaking Udrih and Fransisco Garcia? Gerald Hendrson? DJ Augustin? Willie Green? Surely, those guys aren't any better offensively than Young, Lewis, Hinrich and Wall. I'm not asking us to outperform Wade, Kobe and Durant down the stretch, but maybe we should be able to beat some of these crappy teams every now and then.


I agree on guys like Henderson, Milicic and Green, but Ridnour, Udrih, Garcia, and Augustin are all good offensive players. Wall turns the ball over too much and can't shoot. Yi is awful. Blatche is terribly inefficient -- his game seems to be a collection of "look what I can do, Mom" stuff. Hinrich can shoot and pass, but he's little, slow and can't jump. Young appears to be good at catch & shoot and little else. Lewis is a spot-up shooter at this point in his career.

I suppose they could run s/r with Lewis as the screener. But, until Wall learns how to use screens and shoot the ball, the offense would still be at a disadvantage. Young can't be the ball handler because he's not a guy who can make on-court decisions with any kind of complexity. Shoot/don't shoot seems about his limit. So, I guess you could put the ball in Hinrich's hands, except that Kadeem isn't much of a threat to penetrate. Plus, then Wall would be standing around while someone else ran the team, which (just guessing here) is not something that anyone associated with the team wants.
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#267 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:25 pm

no one on the team freaking rolls. its always pick and pop. lewis pnp on the 3 point line. blatche pnp to ft line jumper. mcgee is the only one who rolls and he's terrible at setting picks
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#268 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:26 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
nate33 wrote:Why is it that Luke freaking Ridnoir can pick-and-roll us to death with Milicic in the 4th quarter but John Wall can't run a pick-and-roll with Yi or Lewis? Why couldn't we stop Beno freaking Udrih and Fransisco Garcia? Gerald Hendrson? DJ Augustin? Willie Green? Surely, those guys aren't any better offensively than Young, Lewis, Hinrich and Wall. I'm not asking us to outperform Wade, Kobe and Durant down the stretch, but maybe we should be able to beat some of these crappy teams every now and then.

Our problem seems like it's more execution than talent. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's Flip's fault, but I don't buy that we lack the talent to compete against other lousy teams.


Agree. This is a problem and I don't think you can put it all on Flip. There just isn't a culture of "scrap until you win because you hate to lose" with these guys. Even a guy like Wall who is supremely talented, never really had to consistently overcome on-court adversity at KU. They would just blow people out. And other guys like Blatche, McGee, and Young know nothing but losing in the NBA.

We need to find a guy who can be the heart and soul of this bunch. Somebody who's got the fire and determination to will a team to victory. Then the other guys will have somebody to look to for how it's done. Not sure who that is, but I think that's the key.


is antawn jamison available??
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#269 » by hands11 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:02 am

LyricalRico wrote:
nate33 wrote:Why is it that Luke freaking Ridnoir can pick-and-roll us to death with Milicic in the 4th quarter but John Wall can't run a pick-and-roll with Yi or Lewis? Why couldn't we stop Beno freaking Udrih and Fransisco Garcia? Gerald Hendrson? DJ Augustin? Willie Green? Surely, those guys aren't any better offensively than Young, Lewis, Hinrich and Wall. I'm not asking us to outperform Wade, Kobe and Durant down the stretch, but maybe we should be able to beat some of these crappy teams every now and then.

Our problem seems like it's more execution than talent. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's Flip's fault, but I don't buy that we lack the talent to compete against other lousy teams.


Agree. This is a problem and I don't think you can put it all on Flip. There just isn't a culture of "scrap until you win because you hate to lose" with these guys. Even a guy like Wall who is supremely talented, never really had to consistently overcome on-court adversity at KU. They would just blow people out. And other guys like Blatche, McGee, and Young know nothing but losing in the NBA.

We need to find a guy who can be the heart and soul of this bunch. Somebody who's got the fire and determination to will a team to victory. Then the other guys will have somebody to look to for how it's done. Not sure who that is, but I think that's the key.


Well if it isn't Wall, why is he a captain? When you have the wrong persons labeled as the leaders, no one knows who to follow and the wrong person is forcing their game when they shouldn't be. And they have to much pressure because they keep trying and they keep failing. Broken record. I know.

1:38 We are taking the ball in baseline.
Example. End of game. Wall to inbound the ball. They are down 10. Wall gets the ball and is talking the Wesley on who is on the Wolves bench. Close up Wall. Talking then smiling. He turns to pass it in bounds. Pass to Lewis. Lewis catches it and turns to dish back to Wall who catches it in the corner with 22 seconds on the clock. What does he do ? He jacks a 3 that hits the side of the backboard. Lewis goes for the rebound and fouls so they get 2 FTs

First off, what is doing talking, laughing and smiling with Wesley ? Game on dude. Come on.
2nd, why in the hell did he jack that 3 with 22 second left when he was off all night from outside.

Hey, I thought I saw Lewis putting the team on his back last night. He stepped up and made some really nice shots. And again, they came back and went up at the 5:00 mark.
Then all the things I listed before in other posts happened.

I don't blame this on Wall. He didn't ask for this label. I even get why they did it at the time. But with Lewis and Kirk here, it's time to change that and give Wall some breathing room. Let him be a rookie. The pressure to lead, carry and perform at an NBA level should be on Lewis and Kirk first and Nick and Dray second. And Howard when he is healthy. Wall is way down the line.
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#270 » by pancakes3 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:30 am

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:no one on the team freaking rolls. its always pick and pop. lewis pnp on the 3 point line. blatche pnp to ft line jumper. mcgee is the only one who rolls and he's terrible at setting picks


nobody rolls because wall can't/doesn't/isn't a threat to shoot. the problem is, wall doesn't come off that pick like a RB through a hole either. he "crab dribbles" laterally before making a move inside, which gives help defenders an extra second to get into place. it's a bad habit. to put in JWiz track terms, it's like taking a gather-up step before launching off the blocks - a big no-no time-waster.

gah, the FUNDAMENTALS, people! won't someone please think of the children!?
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Re: Game Thread: Wizards vs. Timberwolves 1/13/11 

Post#271 » by B-easy » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:12 am

Anybody remember wall in Kentucky, he literally willed his team to wins. Whenever they were down he went into scoring mode, mostly driving to the basket getting foul calls. Now instead of trying to be the facilitator at the end of games he should just attack the basket. Maybe play him at shooting guard (with no jump shooting).

One of the things i liked about this game was that when wall wasn't hitting his jumpers he attacked the basket, and ended either by getting a foul call or luring defenders in and passing out for open looks which the players unfortunately didn't convert.

I would like to see 8-9 FTA a game from wall form here on out. Even though i think he is not 100%.

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