[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[stuporman]

^I feel you but we have to keep Fields IMO. He's too important...too good of a fit...and with the leverage that we have, I think Walsh can find a way to keep him. I would give up Gallo, add first rounders, make trades for more first rounders, find a 3rd team if need be to get AR involved in the deal to add more value....2nd rounders...you name it, but we need to keep Fields. Aside from the fact that I hate JR Smith mostly for his poor attitude and lack of bball IQ which is what Donnie has worked so hard to avoid, Fields is really the perfect compliment at the 2, especially with Melo here.

It's been talked about so often. For a team that will be looking to compete with the best of the best by making a trade like this, you need guys like Fields who are GREAT...not good, but GREAT at being productive without the ball. A guy who can D up, can rebound, finish at the rim and can run the floor and make smart decisions/great passes. On top of that, he's cheap, young and will be the kind of guy who improves his game each year (looking forward to seeing him knocking down that 3 ball with consistency). And really, the list goes on and on, although I don't have to tell you any of this cause I know you know. Point is that I will be very upset if we trade Fields for Melo especially in light of the latest Nets/Nuggets breakdown. No way! JR Smith will not be the answer and we'll have to spend time and energy finding another 2 guard down the road when what our next move should be is for a big man. Keep Landry.

Hey, I'm all for keeping Fields, don't get me wrong. I even would say including Fields would be Walsh's last resort. Although I think Denver probably want the Knicks to take Harrington so it might be a trade off. Fields has a higher ceiling than many would give him credit for as more than just a hustle guy, much in the same way Lee never got credit for a high ceiling then wound up a 20-10 guy who made an allstar game.

JR, yes, he's a knucklehead... but he's expiring so only around for half a season and he can shoot the lights out which would help the Knicks short term. He'd keep the smile on trigger happy D's face but would wear out his welcome in time for him to go away.... again it's a trade off, lessor of two evils. Rather have JR for a little awhile compared to Harrington at all...

I could also see a Turiaf and Birdman inclusion in the deal to save them some more money if Walsh sees CA as someone who could make D's rotation cause he brings much of what Ronnie does but costs more for longer. Again this would probably be something Walsh would like to avoid but might have to make concessions. If the Knicks got to keep Fields would they take on Birdman's contract and Balkman salary?

There's a few moving parts that could be adjusted depending on different variables but I see the Knicks giving up 2 1sts, 2 2nds, 2 prospects and salary relief. It's more than what others probably will be offering now since NJ is off the table but that is what it will take for the Knicks to trump offers and get the deal done. Also Denver won't have to look like they caved in, in theory they got what they said they wanted to get, picks, potential players and relief for sending Melo where he wanted to go.

[duetta]

Latest Woj article. He's still giving it to the Nets but mentions (almost defeatedly) that Melo is probably going to the Knicks. Also says something about the Knicks thinking it better to acquire Dwight Howard in 2012 than it would be to sign Melo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... nets011911

Of course it would be better to go after Dwight Howard. He actually addresses all of our needs.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

If we trade Fields that is a terrible Trade.. We have absouletly no SG without him.. and i dont want any part of JR Smith. Anything more then gallo, AR, Curry, and a 1st does this team no good.

[Jmonty580]

Is there anything to all of this Chicago talk all of the sudden. Nets get out of the picture and people toss Chicago in? Where did they come from? Is this just made up or is Melo interested in going there?

[duetta]

Anything more then gallo, AR, Curry, and a 1st does this team no good.

Anything other than than Gallo or Chandler, AR and Curry and the GS #2s does this team no good. No future 1sts coming from us, period - especially as far down the road as 2014 - unless they're heavily protected. Amare is not likely to be playing at full speed in 2014. And if they want us to take back a contract, fine, I'll take Nene.

[vallen]

Latest Woj article. He's still giving it to the Nets but mentions (almost defeatedly) that Melo is probably going to the Knicks. Also says something about the Knicks thinking it better to acquire Dwight Howard in 2012 than it would be to sign Melo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... nets011911

Of course it would be better to go after Dwight Howard. He actually addresses all of our needs.

agreed, but no crystal ball to assure us he will come here. so you have to take the franchise player thats available, rather then waiting on another diva.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

Anything more then gallo, AR, Curry, and a 1st does this team no good.

Anything other than than Gallo or Chandler, AR and Curry and the GS #2s does this team no good. No future 1sts coming from us, period - especially as far down the road as 2014 - unless they're heavily protected. Amare is not likely to be playing at full speed in 2014. And if they want us to take back a contract, fine, I'll take Nene.

And with the Nets out as well.. Even with our offer, i dont see anyone other team having a better package then Gallo- a Young player that can score, Curry- a Huge expiring that can save a team alot of capspace, AR- a Young player with Potential and a 1st most likely.

The Nuggets would really be stupid to not take this deal.. I mean really the Bulls? What other team is out their?

[rammagen]

Anything more then gallo, AR, Curry, and a 1st does this team no good.

Anything other than than Gallo or Chandler, AR and Curry and the GS #2s does this team no good. No future 1sts coming from us, period - especially as far down the road as 2014 - unless they're heavily protected. Amare is not likely to be playing at full speed in 2014. And if they want us to take back a contract, fine, I'll take Nene.

And with the Nets out as well.. Even with our offer, i dont see anyone other team having a better package then Gallo- a Young player that can score, Curry- a Huge expiring that can save a team alot of capspace, AR- a Young player with Potential and a 1st most likely.

The Nuggets would really be stupid to not take this deal.. I mean really the Bulls? What other team is out their?

except the young player may be Chandler or fields don't be so quick to write off Gallo. They like the way he spreads the floor better and passes

[duetta]

agreed, but no crystal ball to assure us he will come here. so you have to take the franchise player thats available, rather then waiting on another diva.

Actually, you don't. You really can wait - knowing that you'll have oodles of cap room in Summer 2011, Summer 2012 - regardless of how the CBA shakes out. As presently constituted, the Knicks stand to be among the best financially positioned franchises in the NBA. And if Melo is a franchise player, then what is Lebron, what was Shaq, Kareem, Magic, etc. Franchise czars? Franchise Giants? You pay any price to acquire one of them. Not a guy with 16-30 career playoff record, and something close to a .420 FG% in the playoffs.

[Futureisnow]

agreed, but no crystal ball to assure us he will come here. so you have to take the franchise player thats available, rather then waiting on another diva.

Actually, you don't. You really can wait - knowing that you'll have oodles of cap room in Summer 2011, Summer 2012 - regardless of how the CBA shakes out. As presently constituted, the Knicks stand to be among the best financially positioned franchises in the NBA. And if Melo is a franchise player, then what is Lebron, what was Shaq, Kareem, Magic, etc. Franchise czars? Franchise Giants? You pay any price to acquire one of them. Not a guy with 16-30 career playoff record, and something close to a .420 FG% in the playoffs.

Good point Duetta but you didn't address the part about having no guarantees that a guy will decide to come here when he is a free agent. You mentioned earlier that Howard addresses all our needs and I agree 100%. The thing is I don't know how much of a realistic shot we have at getting him let alone what the new CBA will do to curtail the current trend of superstars getting together on one team. Plus I'm getting sick of this media cycle of saying the Knicks are the preferred team of [insert player name] and then saying other teams are involved and the Knicks are no longer a factor.

I say we do what we can to get Melo now because there are no guarantees about who will be available in 2012 and who really wants to come here as opposed to guys that mention our team as some sort of bargaining ploy (ala Jason Kidd).

[moocow007]

Lets be honest here guys...Wojina is desperate and that last bit of nonsense "advising" the Knicks to wait for Howard is a dying mans last grasp at disrupting what looks to be the inevitable.

And Ill also say something that i said earlier in the Melo saga (when concerns about the Knicks being "stuck" if things dont work out with Melo and this team)...Melo (in the midst of a multi year contract) would be a bigger trade chip than anything the Knicks can realistically come up with.

So in the fantasyland scenario where Dwight Howard proclaims his undying love for NY and only NY (and lets assume he too wants to maximize financial well being) wouldnt Carmelo Anthony be a greater trade chip than anything anyone else might be able to come up with?

Trading for Carmelo (a guy who, had the playing field been level the Knicks would NEVER have the assets to acquire) isnt the end of things...it doesnt kill our flexibility...in fact it enhances it.

[duetta]

Good point Duetta but you didn't address the part about having no guarantees that a guy will decide to come here when he is a free agent. You mentioned earlier that Howard addresses all our needs and I agree 100%. The thing is I don't know how much of a realistic shot we have at getting him let alone what the new CBA will do to curtail the current trend of superstars getting together on one team. Plus I'm getting sick of this media cycle of saying the Knicks are the preferred team of [insert player name] and then saying other teams are involved and the Knicks are no longer a factor.

I say we do what we can to get Melo now because there are no guarantees about who will be available in 2012 and who really wants to come here as opposed to guys that mention our team as some sort of bargaining ploy (ala Jason Kidd).

There are no guarantees in life, only sound operating practices. I've watched this team operate since the late 1960s. The Knicks have been a terrible franchise now for over a decade because its management dispensed with sound operating practices - and attempted to throw money at its problems.

Anthony's value to a team is as a lead scorer, not a 2nd banana. You don't pay him 10-20% more than Lebron is getting, despite being 10-20% less of a player (if not more), while giving up future picks and virtually all your young assets, and expect to win championships - especially when you have no idea what the next CBA will hold. If Denver is willing to sell for pennies on the dollar, sure. But nothing suggests that they are. They were asking the Nets for a ransom fit for an in-his-prime Kareem or Shaq. They are acting like the bitter spouse in a nasty divorce. They're looking to screw potential suitors of their former spouse in order to compensate for their loss.

[Jmonty580]

Lets be honest here guys...Wojina is desperate and that last bit of nonsense "advising" the Knicks to wait for Howard is a dying mans last grasp at disrupting what looks to be the inevitable.

And Ill also say something that i said earlier in the Melo saga (when concerns about the Knicks being "stuck" if things dont work out with Melo and this team)...Melo (in the midst of a multi year contract) would be a bigger trade chip than anything the Knicks can realistically come up with.

So in the fantasyland scenario where Dwight Howard proclaims his undying love for NY and only NY (and lets assume he too wants to maximize financial well being) wouldnt Carmelo Anthony be a greater trade chip than anything anyone else might be able to come up with?

Trading for Carmelo (a guy who, had the playing field been level the Knicks would NEVER have the assets to acquire) isnt the end of things...it doesnt kill our flexibility...in fact it enhances it.

Very good points, couldnt agree more. If we want to rebuild, we can get the peices overnight to have one of the brightest futures in the NBA. If we want to retool, Melo would bring us back a really nice return. And if Howard is forcing his way out of Orlando and we prefer him to Melo, I'm sure Orlando would be more than willing to do that swap (I dont see him leaving Orlando though, and if he does not for us unless we keep Melo and Amare and still somehow obtain him).

[moocow007]

Lets be honest here guys...Wojina is desperate and that last bit of nonsense "advising" the Knicks to wait for Howard is a dying mans last grasp at disrupting what looks to be the inevitable.

And Ill also say something that i said earlier in the Melo saga (when concerns about the Knicks being "stuck" if things dont work out with Melo and this team)...Melo (in the midst of a multi year contract) would be a bigger trade chip than anything the Knicks can realistically come up with.

So in the fantasyland scenario where Dwight Howard proclaims his undying love for NY and only NY (and lets assume he too wants to maximize financial well being) wouldnt Carmelo Anthony be a greater trade chip than anything anyone else might be able to come up with?

Trading for Carmelo (a guy who, had the playing field been level the Knicks would NEVER have the assets to acquire) isnt the end of things...it doesnt kill our flexibility...in fact it enhances it.

Very good points, couldnt agree more. If we want to rebuild, we can get the peices overnight to have one of the brightest futures in the NBA. If we want to retool, Melo would bring us back a really nice return. And if Howard is forcing his way out of Orlando and we prefer him to Melo, I'm sure Orlando would be more than willing to do that swap (I dont see him leaving Orlando though, and if he does not for us unless we keep Melo and Amare and still somehow obtain him).

Yep i dont see him leaving Orlando either tbh. But if he were and NY was a team he wanted to go to and Melo wasnt working out and consideting that Orlando would otherwise still be capped out up the ying yang and needing to get a superstar to replace the superstar they would be losing i dont see any better trade partners than the Knicks.

[knicks742]

Lets be honest here guys...Wojina is desperate and that last bit of nonsense "advising" the Knicks to wait for Howard is a dying mans last grasp at disrupting what looks to be the inevitable.

And Ill also say something that i said earlier in the Melo saga (when concerns about the Knicks being "stuck" if things dont work out with Melo and this team)...Melo (in the midst of a multi year contract) would be a bigger trade chip than anything the Knicks can realistically come up with.

So in the fantasyland scenario where Dwight Howard proclaims his undying love for NY and only NY (and lets assume he too wants to maximize financial well being) wouldnt Carmelo Anthony be a greater trade chip than anything anyone else might be able to come up with?

Trading for Carmelo (a guy who, had the playing field been level the Knicks would NEVER have the assets to acquire) isnt the end of things...it doesnt kill our flexibility...in fact it enhances it.

Haha that's exactly how I read Wojina's note on Howard to the Knicks. But you are right, getting Melo now in this situation or in free agency is like investing in a start up company where you only had to put in a $1,000 as an original investment and your return is likely to go up even if you eventually want to divest from the company. There really is no lose if we can get him for the type of deal where we don't gut the team.

[boogie-reke]

You gotta give credit to Denvers FO here, they actually made thier fans believe they're calling the shots this whole saga.

You guys have this on lock, just a matter of time now.

[seren]

Moocow is 100% right. Maxing out Melo is not like maxing out Rashard Lewis. He will be a great asset all along his contract.

[god shammgod]

boy that woj article is fantastic. he buried the nets then spit on the grave.

[Tommy Udo 6]

If Howard does leave Orlando - and it is too soon to guess - his probable destination is Hollywood. Like Shaq, he is interested in becoming a movie star.

There seems nothing will stop the Melo to NY train now......

[Tommy Udo 6]

Chicago writer:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2011 ... 701209972/

The Bulls are reconsidering whether they should make an attempt to trade for Denver’s Carmelo Anthony.
-------------
It is widely believed Denver has insisted center Joakim Noah be included in any Anthony deal, which the Bulls are reluctant to do. It would be more difficult to trade Noah now that he’s signed a long-term extension. But the Bulls have gone 12-6 with Noah on the sideline with a thumb injury.

The Bulls are discussing whether Anthony would give them a better chance to win an NBA title, according to a league source. They might also wait to see if Denver’s price drops closer to the Feb. 24 trade deadline and the Nuggets will accept a package of Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and first-round picks.
-------------------------------

COMMENT: It would be very difficult to do a deal with Noah. He is now a "Poison Pill Player" and it is extremely hard to match salaries - especially since Melo has a Trade Kicker

Without Noah, the Bulls do not have enough to get Melo. Denver isnt going to accept a package without a player better than Luol Deng