[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[2010]

You know that when we get Melo, there's gonna be the new Gallo vs. Chandler: MELO vs AMARE

Something tells me there will not be. I think there's a certain "texture" issue involved in Gallo vs. Chandler but I digress....

I most certainly agree with that! (but lets leave it at that)

[RHODEY]

/quote]

patrick ewing isnt the gm of the nuggets, thats why

od jerry west was

think about it...

Fair enough....

[knicks9784]

West was not the Memphis GM when Gasol trade went down.

true, but its still a prevailing thought that he influenced it

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... asol060308

"The one-sided nature of the trade inspired a lot of people to believe that retired Memphis GM, Jerry West, a Lakers’ legend, played a part in facilitating the deal. West was instrumental recruiting Wallace as his replacement in Memphis and still holds a close relationship with Heisley. His history in Los Angeles, especially his bond with Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak and star Kobe Bryant, made even the fair-minded cynical about the scenario.

Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”

Still, it hasn’t stopped a rampant anger around the league that this wasn’t so much of a trade, as much as it was the word that Bryant himself used: a “donation.” Privately, the Lakers were thrilled that they were able to keep negotiations with the Grizzlies quiet because Los Angeles officials were blown away that they could get Gasol for so little."

[j4remi]

patrick ewing isnt the gm of the nuggets, thats why

And he wasn't the GM of the Grizzlies either....

But Lakers legend Jerry West was. That was his point. The popular opinion there is that West did LA a favor. Same way McHale did for Boston when he traded them KG. Not saying those deals were grossly lopsided, but both the Lakers and Celtics made out pretty nicely considering they both resulted in multiple chips and finals appearances and gave up nothing that was sorely missed. Something tells me that the Denver FO isn't looking to give the Knicks that sort of helping hand.

There's also the VC to NJ deal...that was ridiculous.

[Starksfor3]

Damn it, Walt Clyde! Why don't you show some initiative and go get a GM job for another team?

[towelie]

This 3-team trade is what I'm hoping for:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4f7wosz

NY trades: Gallinari, Walker, Randolph, Douglas, Curry (expiring), Azubuike (expiring/insured), 2014 1st rd pick
NY receives: Carmelo, Harrington, Ridnour

Minnesota trades: Ridnour, Utah's 2011 1st rd pick
Minnesota receives: Randolph, Douglas, JR Smith (expiring)

Denver trades: Carmelo, Harrington, JR Smith ($29.5M)
Denver receives: Gallinari, Walker, Curry/Azubuike (expiring), Utah's 2011 1st, NY's 2014 1st ($18.7M)


- NY gets Melo, gets a backup point in Ridnour, and more bench depth with Harrington. Only rotation players lost are Gallinari, Douglas, and Walker, but all three are upgraded with our acquisitions.

- Minnesota gets out of Ridnour's 4-yr deal, and also acquires Randolph, who they've coveted, and Douglas, a defensive combo guard that could work well with the taller Rubio. Only cost to them is Utah's 2011 1st, and absorbing JR Smith's $6.7M expiring deal.

- Denver sheds $10.8M in salaries, which gets them close to the luxury tax line. That's nearly $22M in savings when counting luxury tax payments. Moreover, they get Gallinari (who they can flip if they really don't want), Walker (who they reportedly wanted), and 2 late 1sts. They also get out of Harrington's deal. I don't see how any rental package can compete with this, and it's enough incentive to get Denver to finally give up their star player to the team they don't really want to trade with.

[seren]

Ridnour's four year deal is not something you look to get out from. It is a reasonable deal for a backup PG and he is actually their starting PG. Minnesota has no reason to do that deal.

[BigUgly]

Add Feilds to that trade for Denver and I think it fair

[ILoveMyKnicks]

Here is a New York-Denver deal that works for everybody...


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=46c2xpf


Throw in one or two first-round picks that the Knicks can get for Anthony Randolph.



I don't understand people who say Fields is off limits. Fields is a good player but he will NEVER be as good as Melo is right now. Melo is a superstar, a Top 5 player when healthy, Fields will become a good role player, great rebounding guard and maybe even an all-star but will he become the player Melo is? The key here is to get the superstars and worry about surrounding them with as much talent as possible later on. This is what Miami did when they signed the Big Three and then worried about getting minimum salary vets like House and Big Z later on.



Denver gets:


One or two first-round picks.

Landry Fields, a rookie that they value highly.

Danilo Gallinari, another young lights-out shooter who has also improved his attacking abilities to replace Melo as SF. Danilo is averaging 15 PPG this year.

Eddy Curry's expiring $11M contract.

They upgrade from Anthony Carter to Tony Douglas. Tony Douglas is a lock-down defender who has had a couple of good games this year.

Bill Walker, another young player who has had a couple of good games for New York ever since Danilo got hurt. He's a very underrated shooter and good defender.



New York gets:



Carmelo Anthony - Top 5 player in the game when healthy to replace Danilo in the lineup.

Al Harrington - has played in New York before.

Anthony Carter - good vet to back up Felton.


Why this works:





Denver obviously knows it's now or never. The deadline is creeping closer by the day and with reports that the Nets have backed away from the Carmelo Anthony talks for the second time already, it doesn't seem like Carmelo wants to play in New Jersey. Billups doesn't either, asking for a buyout if traded. It doesn't work.

What can Chicago truly offer? Joakim Noah is hurt and they have already said that they don't want to give him up. They wo't give up Rose or Boozer, so it's basically Deng, Gibson, or whoever else which isn't better then what we're giving the Nuggets.


New York gives up Fields and Gallinari as the centerpieces of the trade. The Knicks have won quite a few games with Gallo hurt, even though he is important. Fields is very important too but Melo gives them a legit second option to Amar'e and two decent third and fourth options in Felton and Harrington. That team is loaded with offensive firepower, and offense is something that the Knicks have surprisingly struggled in, in a couple of games, most recently against the Kings.


Turiaf and Melo move into the starting lineup to replace Fields and Gallo. The Knicks have been VERY good when Turiaf has started, they're like 6-2 or something. Melo is a good rebounding forward, with this lineup we have at least a bit of size.



Knicks starting lineup:



Raymond Felton

Wilson Chandler

Carmelo Anthony

Amar'e Stoudemire

Ronny Turiaf



Bench:



Al Harrington

Shawn Williams

Anthony Carter

Timofey Mozgov

Kelenna Azubuike (injured)


We lose a lot of depth to be honest, but it's nothing that can't be fixed. Build that bench a bit, get a legit big man who can play, and they can contend for sure. Denver gets a good deal grabbing Fields, Gallo, some picks an expiring contract, and NY wins too getting a coveted superstar, a back-up PG and a sixth man.



What do you think?

[Starksfor3]

HELL NO.

And IB4TL

[delvec19]

Dunno if posted yet but:

NEW YORK KNICKS


With the Nets now out of the picture, the Knicks become the front-runner in the Carmelo Anthony sweepstakes. And GM Donnie Walsh would be wise to do all he can to make Melo-to-NYC a reality. The problem is the fact that he will not necessarily be able to put together an optimal package for the All-Star small forward without giving up some key pieces that have triggered the team's turnaround this season.

Should Walsh gut the current roster to offer a package close to the haul New Jersey had reportedly offered? Yes.

The Miami Heat and Chicago Bulls now feature legitimate three-man cores that will make it hard for Eastern Conference teams to compete for an NBA Finals berth in the next half-decade. I like Danilo Gallinari as much as anyone, but he, Ray Felton and Amare Stoudemire are no match for those other squads -- even if you presume that the supporting players can gel in the coming seasons. So if Walsh has to part with some or all of Gallinari, promising rookie Landry Fields, Wilson Chandler, Bill Walker and a few picks (one of which they reportedly should be able to acquire by dealing Anthony Randolph), then that is the cost of pushing a team that hasn't been relevant in more than a decade toward contender-status.

In Mike D'Antoni's system, Carmelo's volume scoring will not inhibit an offense -- it will buoy the team. There will be plenty of shots to go around, and while a team that has Stoudemire to finish in the paint would ideally prefer a wing with better play-making ability than Anthony, sometimes talent is too good to turn down. Anthony's defensive lapses will also become more forgivable in D'Antoni ball, in which we will also likely see his 3-point accuracy get back near the career-high 37.1 percent he posted just two seasons ago.

Swing for the fences, Donnie Walsh. New York needs this.

-- Jared Wade, Both Teams Played Hard/Eight Points, Nine Seconds

[Starksfor3]

Add Feilds to that trade for Denver and I think it fair

That's because you are horrible at trades. BigUgly should be the nickname for any trade you think up.

We have all the leverage but you think it's a good idea to take on Harrington's contact AND give up Gallo AND Fields.

Nah.

No.

Negative.

[HoneyNutMelos]

Add Feilds to that trade for Denver and I think it fair

That's because you are horrible at trades. BigUgly should be the nickname for any trade you think up.

We have all the leverage but you think it's a good idea to take on Harrington's contact AND give up Gallo AND Fields.

Nah.

No.

Negative.

[ILoveMyKnicks]

Please explain why not. I'm not trying to argue here or anything, just want to have a civil debate.

We aren't going to contend with Fields one of our Top 3 players. He's a rookie, and a great one at that, but if you look at the best teams in the league like San Antonio, Boston, Miami, L.A., they all have veterans leading their squad. We have Amar'e and Raymond but then who? Gallo? Chandler? Fields? These guys are young players who don't know what it takes to win in this league yet.

I've been reading this forum for a while and I don't know what you Knicks fans want. I've been a fan for years and I'd gladly accept this trade, because it moves us a step closer to contending status, while making us a better team. The team obviously won't be finished, but it will have the superstars and the pieces to get there at least.

[aggo]

im ok with losing gallo and chandler or even taking back birdman or al

under no circumstances will i give up fields.

He fits perfectly next to felton/melo/amare.

NO WAY.

[mmgwmu]

Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie, the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010

[knicks742]

How can any of you make a trade offer if we don't even know 1. what other offers they have and 2. what do they value the most? You guys are all zeros are negotiating quite frankly.

[cgmw]

This 3-team trade is what I'm hoping for:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4f7wosz

NY trades: Gallinari, Walker, Randolph, Douglas, Curry (expiring), Azubuike (expiring/insured), 2014 1st rd pick
NY receives: Carmelo, Harrington, Ridnour

Minnesota trades: Ridnour, Utah's 2011 1st rd pick
Minnesota receives: Randolph, Douglas, JR Smith (expiring)

Denver trades: Carmelo, Harrington, JR Smith ($29.5M)
Denver receives: Gallinari, Walker, Curry/Azubuike (expiring), Utah's 2011 1st, NY's 2014 1st ($18.7M)

That's pretty much exactly what I'd love to see.

1. Acquiring Melo
2. Acquiring a top-flight backup PG
3. Not giving up Fields or Chandler
4. Not giving up Turiaf or Moz

I'm not sure Minnesota takes on one of the universe's premiere knuckleheads in JR Smith when they already have Mike Beasley. More neck tatts than IQ points could be a problem for them.

I think it's more likely that a third team takes Wilson (genuinely good guy despite neck tatts and low IQ) sending Denver a draft pick or rookie contract. Not sure who that team is, but it seems the far more likely outcome IMO.

[cgmw]

How can any of you make a trade offer if we don't even know 1. what other offers they have and 2. what do they value the most? You guys are all zeros are negotiating quite frankly.

Because Denver can just sit it out and refuse to trade him. People on this forum completely discount that possibility, but it's exactly why they have leverage. You have to make a substantive offer, and it is not too early to make informed guesses as to what the framework might be.

[Pharmcat]

from todays ny post

Walsh said his talks with Denver have been limited.

"Donnie's not comfortable in even knowing what Denver wants," a source close to Walsh said.

lol at our trade ideas if donnie doesnt even know whats needed