Long Term Focus

[NyCeEvO]

Ahhh....we can all breath a collective sigh of relief. I'm rather tired of posting in that "other" thread, which will here on out go unnamed in this thread but I would like to talk about our long term aspirations and situation.

As many of us know, our cap flexibility and draft ability looks great in the future.

Next year, we only have $36,332,423 of team salary. Compared to this year's cap that puts at just about $22 million below the league cap. Now, we don't know the ramifications of the new CBA but in any case, we're in great shape to wisely invest our money on good talent. As long as we stay away from more Outlaw-like signings, we'll be fine.

Also, we have 5 1st round picks in the next 2 years alone:
2011 Our pick
2011 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers (top 18 protected in 2011)
2012 first round draft pick from Golden State
Golden State's own 2012 1st round pick to New Jersey (top 7 protected in the 2012 Draft, top 7 protected in 2013, and top 6 protected in the 2014 Draft). However, if New Jersey has not yet received this first round pick by the 2014 draft, then New Jersey shall instead receive: (i) Golden State's own 2014 2nd round pick and (ii) Golden State's own 2016 2nd round pick.
2012 Our pick
2012 first round draft pick from Houston

If this does not make you giddy, I don't know what will. IMO, the top of the draft is full of talent and we should definitely be able to draft a top college PG/SG for the future.
Then, we also can draft a quality player with the Lakers pick.

Considering that we do have a plethora of picks, I'm sure that we will probably end up trading one or two either for a higher pick or in a trade to get a good, veteran player.

The best part about the draft picks is that all players selected in the draft will be on cheap, rookie contracts that will barely affect our cap space. In essence, the possibility of acquiring a good player either through the draft or trade is pretty high now. We are the ones with a lot of leverage for the next few years.

In essence, say we draft a nice, young PG with our 2011 1st round pick this year in a guy like (a healthy) Kyrie Irving. Next year we would have Irving/Favors/Brook as a young, talented big 3 with a ton of cap space.

Or...

let's say we have the opportunity to draft a top SG/SF like Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, Harrison Barnes., Tyler Honeycutt. We'd have a young, ridiculously talented front court of a Jones, Barnes, or Honeycutt/Favors/Lopez.

Then, contrary to what some of are suggesting, if we keep Harris till the draft, we can trade him (most likely in a package with another player or pick) with another team for a solid, 1st round draft pick and get a PG like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight (who I actually don't like in the NBA), or Alec Burks.

At that point, 4/5 of our starting lineup is very young and very talented. That core of 3-4 players would be a team to watch out for for the next decade, regardless of whether there is a hard cap or not.

There are other variations that can be made but the Nets need to stick to the path and see that they can build a championship contender through the draft. What do you guys think?

[vincecarter4pres]

I'll be honest, as much as I have been for tanking, there are really only 3 players I love and maybe 2 I like out of the projected top picks and 2 of them are power forwards, so it's Kyrie Irving or bust for me and if not, we need to trade one of the pick, Favors or Lopez, as long as the return is top notch and makes sense.

With all my enthusiasm for the youth movement and what not, I have mentioned this is quite the risky season to tank because of the lack of an elite wing prospect and the lack of many franchise guys.

I would have welcomed Melo, but the outgoing assets were ridiculous and the bad contracts we had to take on were deal breakers as the reported deal was constructed.

This is going to be an interesting trade deadline and draft, mainly because of the looming lockout.

[JoseRizal]

I was just thinking of our future then I found this topic.

Anyway, I agree that we need to slowly build a competent team and the draft is the best starting point. Owning 5 picks in the next 2 years will give us a 20% shot at getting a contributor.

I'm hoping that with all the cap space we have, we don't end up making the same mistake in signing FA's just for the heck of it (see: Outlaw)

Rebuilding will give Favors more time to grow and mature and hope that he'll end up not only to be a serviceable big man but rather a full time starter.

But right now I just have a few questions in my mind:

1. Where do we trade Murphy? And for who?
2. What do we do with Humphries after the season? Trade or resign?
3. Are we gonna trade Devin? If yes, who will be our starting PG?
4. What are we gonna do with Outlaw's horrible contract?
5. Will Graham still see significant minutes?

[kasino]

yea rebuilding is the best option.
Find out how good Brook could be, I feel like the tade talks and knowledge of superteams forming makes the team feel someone is going to come and "save" them.
I think we go young and don't overlook character. Wish we had someone from the Spurs org. to build/scout
I think we could have been better than we are with the current roster but no faith was ever shown in them. Injuries doesn't help either.


I wish we could find a young "it" player to pair with Brook hopefully in the pg or sg position forwards can be built IMO

[Preludepunk27]

You know I hear what everyone is saying and I agree with you in theory that a slow rebuild is what we should be doing, but that is not reality for the Nets.

We are moving in a year and a half. We have a small fan base to begin with and we're moving to the lower intestine of the belly of the beast that is New York City.

The Nets have been hemorrhaging money each year for at least a decade. While the entire new stadium complex opens up additional revenue streams for the Nets ownership, they are completely focused on making this franchise successful monetarily speaking. The cards are stacked against them since the Knicks clearly have a stronghold in Brooklyn. They are not necessarily going after the old Knick fans, they're going after the young kids (to build loyalty when they don't have any allegience yet) as well as casual fans (to put in the seats). The only way to do this is to win immediately. That doesn't mean be a title contender, but putting a team on the court that either has a highly marketable player who will be there for a relatively long time and/or being a playoff team. As of right now, we don't meet either characteristic.

Now, you never know...we may luck out with the first pick in the draft, nab a franchise player people are excited about and just market a 3 headed monster of 1st pick/Favors/Lopez. I'm fine with that, but unless it happens, management is going to look for a star. In the end I didn't want Melo in the deal being discussed, but every time a star complains for the next year and a half, I'm 100% positive the Nets are making a phone call or two.

In our predicament, the key here for the Nets will not be a slow rebuild. It's not going to happen so I really want us all to just swallow that fact and deal with it instead of making wishful thinking or idealistic comments. The key for Nets management is to put a competitive team on the court WITHOUT killing long term flexibility. That is the best plan for the franchise and we'll ne'll need to support that.


Again I wish we could do the slow rebuild, but it's not logical for this franchise. Cities like Minnesota can handle things like that, but in Netsland, it's not an option period. As long as we don't pull an Isiah like New York did (which we almost did with Melo), we most certainly can achieve managements objectives of getting competitive without screwing our long term ambitions.

This is exactly why I wanted R.C. Buford to run this organization. The guy understands how to achieve this goal better than anyone else in the NBA. Of course though, he's lucky he already has a franchise player on his team though, but look at the teams he's put together and how well they function. Nobody beats Buford.

[NyCeEvO]

I disagree with a lot of what you said.

First of all, even if the Nets move and change their name to the Brooklyn Boogers and all of us diehard fans leave, they will have a following by many Nets fans who are casual fans. The NBA doesn't make its money off the diehard fans. It makes its money off the casual fan who is interested by what is going on. There are so many example of this in sports it's not even funny. For example:

1) 80+% of Laker Nation are casual fans that will be quiet as a church mouse if Kobe leaves and there is no superstar left to replace him. The diehard fans will always come but not the casual fans.

2) The Cavaliers sold out practically every home game that LBJ was there and while they are still good in attendance, you can clearly tell that there is a disinterested fan base because there is no more excitement.

3) Probably the most relevant case is the OKC Thunder. They went to an entirely new fan base that has never had an NBA team and most of which could have easily rooted for any of the nearby Texas teams since they all have enjoyed relative success over the past decade. From the 1999-2000 season through the 2008-2009 season, the Sonics/Thunder averaged 15,431 attendee per home game, but the data is skewed because in the last season of the Sonics, they were 28th in attendance and averaged 13,355 attendees. Yet the very first season they go to OKC, they shot up to 11th in attendance and averaged 18,693 attendees. By the way, in their first season the Thunder went 23-59.

I'm not saying that we're going to be like the Thunder but Thunder had Durant in Seattle and they were near the bottom in attendance. And we all know that a rookie Westbrook was not the reason why so many fans were interested.

Another brief example is the Houston Texans of the NFL. The Dallas Cowboys are supposed to be America's team and therefore you'd expect all Texans to be Cowboys fans. Maybe many were in the beginning but there is a difference when your city/town/state owns a team. The Texans have never made the playoffs and yet the last four seasons they have increased their attendance ranking from 11th in '07, 11th in '08, 10th in '09, to 9th in '10. They attract fans from their immediate area as well as casual fans that just want to follow the new team.

You might say that the Bobcats are evidence that it doesn't always work out. Yes, it's not a fool proof theory , my gut tells me that Brooklyn is more a basketball town than Oklahoma City and that the casual Knicks fan will go to a Nets game if it's closer to home because allegiance is as big of a deal to them.

Now, to go back to something that I said earlier. The Thunder brought KD from the Sonics. He wasn't the bonafide superstar back then that he is today though. They didn't a superstar player to attract fans, but just an up and coming talent. Now, the Nets have the opportunity to draft one of several talented wings that by themselves would attract fans to the games. Yet, when you add a 20 year old Favors, Lopez, and possibly another young talented PG other than Harris, that is something to get excited about. When Proky said Knicks fans will become Nets fans, he was talking about the casual Knicks fans and probably plenty of Brooklynites who will finally have a team again. Even the older people who still feel hurt by the Brooklyn Dodgers leaving will go to see the Nets because a professional team has come back to the area.

I'm not saying that it we will definitely be great but the fact that you're in NYC automatically brings exposure to your team and even if we're terrible our team will be marketed across the globe because of Proky. If the Thunder were Brooklyn, they'd be the talk of the town over the Knicks. OKC is 27-15 in the Western Conference, while the Knicks are 22-19 in the Eastern conference. We don't even need a top two pick to get a kid with great upside.

Right now, we're the 4th worst team in the league. Suppose we stay true to form and finish as the fourth worst. Now, I know the lottery can throw things off a little but like I said I don't think we need a top-2 or even top-3 to get our future wing. In fact, we can trade our pick along with one or two more firsts, if we really want to move up in the draft. It's almost a certainty that we could end up guys like Perry Jones, Terrence Jones (whom I like), Kyrie Irving (whom I really like), Alec Burks, Tyler Honeycutt, Kawhi Leonard, Harrison Barnes, or Kemba Walker. I haven't even mentioned super talented big men that could fall to us and we could still trade someone like a Enes Kanter, Derrick Williams, Jared Sullinger, etc. ALONG WITH DEVIN HARRIS for the top wing that we want. (That is why I'm actually against shipping off Harris. We can package him with a nice big man rookie, if they we happen to pick one and get our wing).

It is not even an optimistic guess to say that we will start next season with the best young trio in the NBA especially if we get an Irving or either Jones. And then we'd enter Brooklyn with that young talent. We may not win in the next 2-3 season but we'd be force to reckon with after that for the next decade.

[vincecarter4pres]

Really, the only guys I personally love in this draft are Kyrie and Perry Jones.

I like Terrence Jones a lot and Sullinger looks like he'll be a very good player, but they don't really excite me and in the case of Sullinger, he's a power forward...

Burks is nice, but his defense is just atrocious, his decision making sucks and his outside shot is suspect.

No one else is really worth mentioning IMO, in the draft position we'll be in.

If we keep the pick, we really NEED Irving or Perry Jones, maybe Terrence Jones could be OK.

[NyCeEvO]

Really, the only guys I personally love in this draft are Kyrie and Perry Jones.

I like Terrence Jones a lot and Sullinger looks like he'll be a very good player, but they don't really excite me and in the case of Sullinger, he's a power forward...

Burks is nice, but his defense is just atrocious, his decision making sucks and his outside shot is suspect.

No one else is really worth mentioning IMO, in the draft position we'll be in.

If we keep the pick, we really NEED Irving or Perry Jones, maybe Terrence Jones could be OK.

And you know what I like even more though? When we draft our top guy, we'll have two other young, talented guys who know the NBA and will help to bring him in. They're not going to be able to double either Jones, when you already have Lopez and Favors down low. I think this will just allow this year's top pick to have an easier time becoming a good or great player sooner rather than later. I can't wait to see our big 3.

And even though I mentioned all of those players, I think it's important to keep Harris just so that we can package him with the top player if we don't want him for another top pick. I'd rather keep Harris for another 40+ games and get the rookie I want rather than trade him for Andre Miller and be stuck with whoever we draft. Keep Harris and use him as a pawn for the draft just in case we need it.

[vincecarter4pres]

Miller is probably more valuable in the offseason then Devin, his contract is completely non-guaranteed if used before June 29th.

[Jersey Generals]

I'm going to say it: if Kyrie Irving isn't drafted by the Nets, this team is screwed, unless something unforeseen happens.

[NyCeEvO]

Miller is probably more valuable in the offseason then Devin, his contract is completely non-guaranteed if used before June 29th.

Well, it depends. Teams like Portland and Dallas actually like Harris. Another thing is that teams with high draft picks would probably want the younger player anyway but the non-guaranteed deal is pretty good as well.

[NyCeEvO]

I'm going to say it: if Kyrie Irving isn't drafted by the Nets, this team is screwed, unless something unforeseen happens.

Trust me, I love Irving too but I don't think we're "screwed" especially if we get either Jones. Do you think that everyone else in the draft is that bad? This isn't like last year's draft where there was a clear cut no.1. If a lot of these guys come out, the teams with the top 5 picks will all be pretty happy.

[Jersey Generals]

Trust me, I love Irving too but I don't think we're "screwed" especially if we get either Jones. Do you think that everyone else in the draft is that bad? This isn't like last year's draft where there was a clear cut no.1. If a lot of these guys come out, the teams with the top 5 picks will all be pretty happy.

It really has nothing to do with the Joneses or Sullinger, and more along the lines of logistics. Logistically, this team cannot afford to not have a star player at either the SG or the PG spot. Terrence Jones and Sullinger do nothing for this team, and at that point, I'd rather trade the pick. Perry Jones...I haven't made up my mind just yet. He reeks of a tweener to me, albeit with a much, much higher upside than a tweener like Kawhi Leonard.

[NyCeEvO]

Oh ok, I understand what you're getting at. Here's the thing though. Let's say we end up getting one of the Joneses (and I wouldn't group them with Sullinger because they're going to play SF; Perry is 6'11 but he's way too skinny and has the skill set of a SG/SF. Plus, imagine your 6'6-6'8 SF (haha...even Melo or LeBron) trying to guard Perry who's looking down on them). Remember that we still have the Lakers 1st round pick. So if you package Harris with that pick, that should be enough to get you a Josh Selby, Brandon Knight (whom I'm not really fond of but others are), Jordan Hamilton, or even Kemba Walker but that might be a stretch cuz I think he stock will continue to rise.

Plus, let's say we make a trade for Mayo which most believe can happen, that solves your SG problem. I honestly think we have so much flexibility that there really isn't much negative for us except the present losing that we're going through. If our FO realizes that rather than making the playoffs with a scrub team and completely wasting our pick, we should stand pat, suck for the rest of the season, and as soon as we draft our top guy, it's only upwards from here on out IMO.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm going to say it: if Kyrie Irving isn't drafted by the Nets, this team is screwed, unless something unforeseen happens.

Pretty much agreed.

Perry Jones looks pretty awesome, but IMHO he's a power forward through and through, meaning either Favors eventually needs to be traded(probably sooner then later while his stock is high), or Brook needs to be traded if Favors can be a full time center, but he looks a touch too short.

Jones also doesn't necessarily have a killer instinct, which scares me if our misguided(to be kind) FO has to be the talent evaluators that decide which one of the 3 to trade and what fair compensation is and the right deal will be.

This team needs an alpha. They need a leader and we also need a take charge point guard or wing, who also can self create and create for others, while making the players around him better.

After Irving, there isn't anyone in this draft that fits that bill unless Cory Joseph declares but as highly as I think of him, taking him that high would likely be a critical error even if his stock happens to skyrocket and he's a player that is 2 or 3 seasons away from being a true big impact player at the NBA level.

I don't think nearly as highly of this draft as I did 2 or 3 months ago.

Just because we didn't make the Melo trade doesn't necessarily mean we should still slow rebuild, it just meant it was an epic overpay and Melo probably didn't want to come here.

IMO, Kyrie is that dude. He's that nice. He's a leader. A star waiting to happen. A franchise guy. A guy that will put asses in the seats and sell TV time. A highly marketable star.

We get him, I think we are set and you don't trade that for anything short of a Deron/Paul, Melo, LMA type of Big 3, where we empty the cupboard for an instant contender.

You keep him, Brook, Favors, hopefully get a stud glue guy like Mayo and trade everything else for a player like Granger, make a run at the playoffs for a couple years and when all the important guys like Irving, Brook, Favors and even Mayo get that experience and fully develop, in combination with an awesome vet like Granger and a good bench, you are a true contender, especially when a lot of the other top teams are simultaneously growing old and slowing down or have been broken up do to greed and envy.

We don't get Kyrie Irving, all options must be considered.

[Netaman]

That's the problem with the the draft -you cannot play for the top pick because the chances are awful that you will actually get it. Like worse then putting 10k on red bad. Theres no way this team doesn't win more gms then Cleveland the rest of the season, and probably a few other teams as well.

Get a pg on a short contract who will help make brook and favors develop, keep adding assets, and be in position to trade/sign the next stud.

[vincecarter4pres]

That's the problem with the the draft -you cannot play for the top pick because the chances are awful that you will actually get it. Like worse then putting 10k on red bad. Theres no way this team doesn't win more gms then Cleveland the rest of the season, and probably a few other teams as well.

I understand all this and it's all very true, but it's a calculated risk and the worst overall record rarely gets the #1 overall pick anyway.

[jeff1624]

Hey VC, what's the deepest position in the 2012 draft? Any elite 2 or 3's?

[vincecarter4pres]

Hey VC, what's the deepest position in the 2012 draft? Any elite 2 or 3's?

Power forward and point guard are the deepest.

Thing is outside the top couple power forwards, they're mostly all undersized, Millsap types, which can be great players, but not even close to franchise guys or stars.

With the point guards, there's Irving and then basically a bunch of shoot first, combo type guys.

Outside Terrence Jones, I don't know that there's an elite small forward prospect in this draft period, Harrison Barnes is looking the part of a bust quite admirably.

Shooting guard is thin too.

Alec Burks could turn into a great player, but my money is more on a cross between Larry Hughes and Jamal Crawford if he even reaches his ceiling.

Scotty Hopson is a guy flying way below the radar right now that I like a lot, he can play the 2 or the 3, but he has some serious flaws to his game as well.
He'll probably never go higher then 8th overall and I see him more in the 12 to 20 range when it's all said and done if he even declares this year.

Selby is just too short and small. I think he's 6'2 in sneakers, maybe 6'1 in socks.

Marcus Morris is nice, reminds me of a poor man's Melo, but he's a tweener that may have some serious problems guarding SF's in the association, so I'm not sold on him and again, this is a guy likely to go like 10th to 20th and leans heavily towards the power forward spectrum of tweener status anyway.

Kris Joseph is a pretty good prospect. He's strictly a small forward. He's so damn inconsistent though and I think he gets overrated quite a bit. Suspect outside shooter, not great at creating. And once again, not a guy even getting a second's thought as high as we'll be picking.

There are a couple guys I don't know much about, like Tyler Honeycutt and Kawhi Leonard.

There is a guy I love that should be available at the LAL pick and that's David Lighty, but I would never call him an elite prospect and due to recurring foot injuries he is still in school as a 5th year senior, meaning he'll be 23 at the start of next season.
He's an interesting an versatile player though.

[Lamak]

But right now I just have a few questions in my mind:

1. Where do we trade Murphy? And for who?
2. What do we do with Humphries after the season? Trade or resign?
3. Are we gonna trade Devin? If yes, who will be our starting PG?
4. What are we gonna do with Outlaw's horrible contract?
5. Will Graham still see significant minutes?

1.) To a contender or playoff bound team for a pick and young talent. FO is probably working hard to get it done, because he's just a waste of a roster spot at this point.
2.) Resign Hump. He's been playing really well coming off of the bench behind Favors. He's an energy guy which is much needed.
3.) Yes, only if we're able to get more draft picks/players for a future trade or for a star.
4.) Keep it, no other option. Either he a.) Shoots himself back into a good percentage, b.) Shoots himself onto the bench, or c.) Or get sinjured.
5.) Probably not, all depending on how James plays when he gets healthy.