What happened to the fans?

Komodo · Post #1 » by **Komodo** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:32 pm

People always say that the fans will come back when the team starts winning again; however, over the past 9 seasons, Toronto has finished in the top half of the league standings 5 times, yet their average home attendance ratings have only finished in the top half once. Looking at the records, the Blue Jays have fielded some pretty competitive teams during the last 9 seasons, yet the fans haven't shown them much support.

Year:
Average Home Attendance:
Team Record:

2010
20,068 (26th)
85-77 (13th)

2009
23,162 (22nd)
75-87 (T-20th)

2008
29,626 (14th)
86-76 (T-12th)

2007
29,143 (18th)
83-79 (T-14th)

2006
28,422 (18th)
87-75 (10th)

2005
24,876 (23rd)
80-82 (17th)

2004
23,457 (24th)
67-94 (T-25th)

2003
22,215 (23rd)
86-76 (T-11th)

2002
20,208 (25th)
78-84 (T-17th)

2001
23,647 (23rd)
80-82 (17th)

I have a feeling excuses will come down to two reasons: 1) we need a new stadium, and 2) it's not so much winning games that will attract fans but the excitement surrounding a playoff run. If your prognosis is the latter, than I ask you what kind of a market is it where, despite fielding teams that are generally quite competitive and have often finished in the top half of the standings, the fans consistently don't show up, but would theoretically only show up when their is playoff excitement in the air. Of course, playing in the toughest division in baseball means the playoffs are a fat chance.

I guess we shall see in the coming years. When MLB introduces a 5th playoff team, and when we finally are ready to challenge for a playoff spot, then we will see whether this city needs a new stadium or it was just the playoff excitement all along.

IMO, it's moreso having an outdated stadium. Going to a game is an experience, and when you have a beautiful outdoor stadium, on a hot and sunny day, it makes all the difference in the world.

What do you think?

Macho · Post #2 » by **Macho** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:52 pm

I think we will see an increase this year, people are starting to get excited because it actually seems like at least one Toronto team is going in the right direction.

DonYon · Post #3 » by **DonYon** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:42 pm

I wouldn't blame the stadium. People will come around once we're in the playoff hunt, especially with the state of the other major sports teams in the city doing so poorly. Also, I think this team's lacking a kind of personality that puts people in the seats. Everybody seems too easy-going.

Post #4 » by **Schad** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:08 pm

komodo19 wrote:I have a feeling excuses will come down to two reasons: 1) we need a new stadium, and 2) it's not so much winning games that will attract fans but the excitement surrounding a playoff run. If your prognosis is the latter, than I ask you what kind of a market is it where, despite fielding teams that are generally quite competitive and have often finished in the top half of the standings, the fans consistently don't show up, but would theoretically only show up when their is playoff excitement in the air. Of course, playing in the toughest division in baseball means the playoffs are a fat chance.

I think this is dead on, and it's why I'm much more willing to be patient with a rebuild than most. We can be a .500 team (or a .550 team for that matter) and no one comes out, because while the game-to-game product is marginally improved, there's no potential payoff.

I guess we shall see in the coming years. When MLB introduces a 5th playoff team, and when we finally are ready to challenge for a playoff spot, then we will see whether this city needs a new stadium or it was just the playoff excitement all along.

I don't think that we'll ever see the Dome filled unless we build a monster, but a return to 32-35k/night is definitely possible if we can make the playoffs once and come back looking as strong the next night. But I think that we've had enough borderline hopeful late-summers and "this is the year!" murmuring that it's going to take actual success to make it happen, rather than fleeting hope.

U_Mad · Post #5 » by **U_Mad** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:31 am

The only way to fill a stadium is to attract the casual fan, for the last while we've seen improvements but the buzz isnt there with the yanks, sox and rays constantly impeding our route to the playoffs...but I think with the young talent that AA is picking up and developing and the craptacular seasons the leafs and raps are having more people will begin to see the jays as the beacon of hope for the sports scene in Toronto

Kaizen · Post #6 » by **Kaizen** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:29 am

I personally think Toronto is just a terrible sports crowd. Every single team in Toronto has trouble attracting fans. I do not know what the issue is but I hope a smart marketer can figure it out and try and fix it. It is so disappointing to go a game and the stadium is half empty.

The fact is the perception (rightly so) is the Jays will not make the playoffs anytime soon so I do not think anyone will take the team seriously until they make the playoffs at least once.

Komodo · Post #7 » by **Komodo** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:52 am

CZAR85 wrote:I personally think Toronto is just a terrible sports crowd. Every single team in Toronto has trouble attracting fans. I do not know what the issue is but I hope a smart marketer can figure it out and try and fix it. It is so disappointing to go a game and the stadium is half empty.

The fact is the perception (rightly so) is the Jays will not make the playoffs anytime soon so I do not think anyone will take the team seriously until they make the playoffs at least once.

The Leafs are always in the top 5 attendance, regardless of the product they ice. The Raptors are usually in the top 1/2 of the league for attendance. Hell, even Toronot FC appears to be in the top percentile for attendance. Not sure where you came up with that comment, but it's definitely invalid.

Kaizen · Post #8 » by **Kaizen** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:54 am

Attendance and people in the seats can be two completely different things. If you do not notice all the empty seats (especially at TFC games) then I do not know what to say.

I don't follow the Raptors but I am under the impression their attendence is down this year as well. Give them a few more years like this year and maybe they will also no longer be in the top half.

This town is a front-running town. You need to be good or at least make the playoffs to have good attendance.

Post #9 » by **darth_federer** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:36 am

The fans are the last thing I am worried about. I mean all our sports teams have sucked for the longest time and fans will show up if a team is winning.

baulderdash77 · Post #10 » by **baulderdash77** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:48 am

CZAR85 wrote:Attendance and people in the seats can be two completely different things. If you do not notice all the empty seats (especially at TFC games) then I do not know what to say.

I don't follow the Raptors but I am under the impression their attendence is down this year as well. Give them a few more years like this year and maybe they will also no longer be in the top half.

This town is a front-running town. You need to be good or at least make the playoffs to have good attendance.

Ever try to get TFC tickets without going through a scalper? You pretty much can't do it.

The Raptors are down in attendance from top 5/top 10 to middle of the pack. But they're also comitted to tanking the season this year for draft picks so that has to be expected.

The reason that the fans don't come to Blue Jay games is that there's just no hope of making the playoffs at all. They've been selling us 1 more year for about 10 years now and the casual fan has ran out of patience. The next 18 months are absolutely critical for the Jays. They get this year to grow and next year they had better be competing or the franchise is done. The fans can't take another failed rebuilding.

evilRyu · Post #11 » by **evilRyu** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:54 am

how about the fact that you can pretty much catch all the games on Sportsnet? That would play a factor, especially if I lived in Toronto.

Randle McMurphy · Post #12 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:35 am

The fans are all watching the games on television. The Jays get great ratings. They'd have even better ratings (and better attendance) if they spent more money on the product, though.

Komodo · Post #13 » by **Komodo** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:12 pm

That's a good point about the TV ratings. There aren't too many teams that can boast of such a large market (hell, we're 30+ million people).

baulderdash77 wrote:The reason that the fans don't come to Blue Jay games is that there's just no hope of making the playoffs at all. They've been selling us 1 more year for about 10 years now and the casual fan has ran out of patience. The next 18 months are absolutely critical for the Jays. They get this year to grow and next year they had better be competing or the franchise is done. The fans can't take another failed rebuilding.

I don't think there's any serious threat of the Jays leaving town. Even if their attendance stays in that 18th-25th range, there's a still a whole slew of other teams who are consistently in the same position, such as Oakland, Florida, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Washington, Cincinnati, Kansas City, etc., so it's not like they are the only ones having a hard time attracting fans at the gates.

I honestly think the introduction of a 5th playoff team will help matters because it'll give fans more hope.

Post #14 » by **LittleOzzy** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:37 pm

I think it has a lot to do with not winning consistently. Yeah they have up and down seasons but with no hint at the playoffs why should the casual fan bother?

Even on RealGM you can see the excitement drop as the seasons chugs along, imagine how the casual fan thinks even 30 games in when we are out of reach.

A consistent winner, even without the playoffs would go along way. The up and down seasons do nothing to generate interest.

SCF99 · Post #15 » by **SCF99** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:28 pm

A new stadium? i would think not..I would guess that the casual fan would not get so excited because with the money tree yanks and sox in the same division it is hard to even get a glimmer of hope that they make the playoffs looking forward. Building a strong fan base would require the jays to become a culture that is instilled in young fans so can become diehards following their team. Making a run of any kind would go a long way in getting young fans excited about the jays espcially if the core players are young and are able to be kept around for awile and are exposed to them for a few years. the high point in attendence in this last ebb and flow numbers were mostly due to JP signing a few free agents that caused a bit of a stir in the casual fan but these were only temporary fixes that came and went along with the fans. AA building with a young core that people will be able to relate to year after year, is more the way that we will even get a long term consistant fan base and not depend on gimmic free agents to temp. bump up numbers.

A question for you stat nuts,, a the last time the yankees sucked big time were they still packing the joint or were there numbers down