Statistical Analysis of Post-Trade Team: There is Hope!

[WizarDynasty]

you use the words---Gene Banks "knows how to execute".

i use the words "Can Gene Banks successfully execute what he is teaching against a 7 footer?"
If the answer is NO..then he is a fraud.


i know how to dunk from the free throw line but i can't do it and i have never done it.
That's saying...myself and michael jordan are on the same level in terms of teaching a player how to dunk from the free throw line.

Michael has actually done it. i haven't done it. McHale has actually dominated in the post...Gene Banks has never dominated in the post.

I can easily tell someone run full speed and jump from the free throw line. That's how you dunk but if i am was never successful at it, i don't have the hidden insights learned from consistently being successful at what i am trying to teach.

Gene was never an elite post player---and he has no track record of coaching up a dominant post player in the nba. So EG allows him to experiment with our future center to see if he gets lucky.

i use the word "Actually Execute". Tremendous difference in what you and i are saying.

the difference between a quality bigman coach..and fraud..is the quality bigman coach can get on the court and successfully execute and elite post moves against a seven foot 270 lb center. A fraud bigman coach tries to explain how to do it but can't actually do it.

i guarantee we can take McHale at his old age..and hakeem at their old age and they can go out on the court and successfully execute against another 7 footer. This fraud Gene Banks can't.
mcGee and blatche are facing 7 footers, so my coach needs to be able to execute what he is teaching against a 7 footer so i can see it done with my own EYES. Gene banks is a fraud. EG should be fired for not realizing Banks is a fraud.

Demonstration--- McGee sees it done "live" with his own eyes...against another 7 footer.

We don't have a coach on the roster that can do it...the wizards don't have a competent bigman coach on this roster.

We need a bigman coach that can execute what he teaches. until we have a very below average bigman coach and the we are seeing the results of having a very "below average bigman coach".

We as wiz fans will continue to suffer until TEd the Savior comes in an saves this losing culture franchise.

[tontoz]

Back when Amare Stoudemire was a rookie, I had the chance to interview him in the locker room when Phoenix was in town. He talked about how much time he spent working on his game -- an hour before practice, and another 2-4 hours after practice. He figured he spent 6 hours a day DURING THE SEASON working on his hoops skills.

To your point Amare couldn't shoot a lick as a rookie. His EFG% on jumpers was 30.7%. Now it is mid-40s and has been for the last few years. He shot 66% from the ft line as a rookie and has been high 70s/low 80s for the last few years.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

damn Nate, who peed in your lemonade?

McGee is coordinated, is skilled around the basket, has a finger roll as well as a sky hook and a decent jumper. He's got some tools, you make him sound like Kwame and he's not.

He doesn't have the strength to overwhelm people in the post and force them to foul him, that's for sure. He doesn't have any footwork to speak of or any indication that he's got the foot-to-eye coordination to develop it.

Look, you've gotta walk before you can run. First McGee needs to develop enough strength so he doesn't get overwhelmed himself on defense. Then you can talk about using that strength to steamroll other people. He's not there yet, and if he doesn't get good nutritional/workout advice he may never be.

Nivek and nate, I think iterations--that is, attempts without scolding or benching and perhaps with even a bit of encouragement are what Javale needs.

You guys love Flip, but IMO the 23-year old player has been a better player this season than the fifty-something year-old coach has been as a coach. Javale's done a pretty good job of doing what Flip has asked him to do. His defense and rebounding are damatically improved. As instructed, McGee's shot less. Javale intimidates at times. He runs the court well. His stamina seems to be no longer an issue.

What ghe Wizards should do is run two or three plays a half just for Javale. Zonker is correct about what McGee can do. Those moves do not involve strength or power, but rather fluid movement and timing. I think just having him score puts a world of pressure on opponents. McGee runs well and should get more opportunities in transition.

Remember: Javale once had 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. He and Kevin McHale (who did so in 1984) are the only guys to do that. McGee CAN score. Those who don't think so are IMO wrong. I think every shot he takes is rushed or forced because McGee has no support from Saunders, and he usually goes straight to the bench first shot he misses.

I think baby steps taken in the form of five plays a game should be called for Javale.

[pancakes3]

i know how to dunk from the free throw line but i can't do it and i have never done it.
That's saying...myself and michael jordan are on the same level in terms of teaching a player how to dunk from the free throw line.

Michael has actually done it. i haven't done it. McHale has actually dominated in the post...Gene Banks has never dominated in the post.

I can easily tell someone run full speed and jump from the free throw line. That's how you dunk but if i am was never successful at it, i don't have the hidden insights learned from consistently being successful at what i am trying to teach.

this is your problem. there is no hidden insight to be learned. you just run really fast and jump really high. this is basketball... not rocket science.

you seem to think there's some mystical secret about putting a basketball into a metal ring. there isn't.

and stop talking trash about gene banks as a basketball player. he was a 3 time HS all-american, 4 year starter at DUKE. he's forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know. i mean, seriously. the audacity it takes for you to sit in front of your computer, nitpick at the holes in Javale's game, and to say it's because the PROFESSIONAL COACHES don't know what they're talking about? ridiculous. presumptuous?

i can't +1 enough what Kev said earlier about being beyond frustrated when people start harping on the COACHING for the reason why an NBA player isn't developing his skills. i think the worst case of this was Amare recently saying "nobody taught me how to play defense". just absolutely ridiculous.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Back when Amare Stoudemire was a rookie, I had the chance to interview him in the locker room when Phoenix was in town. He talked about how much time he spent working on his game -- an hour before practice, and another 2-4 hours after practice. He figured he spent 6 hours a day DURING THE SEASON working on his hoops skills.

To your point Amare couldn't shoot a lick as a rookie. His EFG% on jumpers was 30.7%. Now it is mid-40s and has been for the last few years. He shot 66% from the ft line as a rookie and has been high 70s/low 80s for the last few years.

Nivek, in all seriousness I would trust you to teach McGee 85% of what he needs to practice post moves.

I understand and agree guys who hit the club after the game aren't working as hard as others. How much better and at what rate he improves largely depends on McGee. Does he want it like Amare did to put all the work required in?

I see McGee as a hard worker.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My position is let McGee learn by doing on the court. I don't blame Gene Banks, but I do think Flip's playcalling and his control over what he allows McGee to try both limit Javale on offense, in addition to his shortcomings as an offensive player.

[WizarDynasty]

and stop talking trash about gene banks as a basketball player. he was a 3 time HS all-american, 4 year starter at DUKE. he's forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know. i mean, seriously. the audacity it takes for you to sit in front of your computer, nitpick at the holes in Javale's game, and to say it's because the PROFESSIONAL COACHES don't know what they're talking about? ridiculous. presumptuous?

you use the words---Gene Banks "knows how to execute".

i use the words "Can Gene Banks successfully execute what he is teaching against a 7 footer?"
If the answer is NO..then he is a fraud.

Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you can actually do it. Our bigs need a coach that actually do it...McHale, Hakeem, Abdul Jabar hopefully that clears things up for you.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WD, Chris Webber is McGee's dunk contest coach. He's known Javale and Pam McGee a long time. C Webb and McHale appear to have great mutual respect.

I would think Webber could teach McGee and McHale would also help.

(Honestly, McGee would do so well with Boston or with San Antonio).

[pancakes3]

you use the words---Gene Banks "knows how to execute".

i use the words "Can Gene Banks successfully execute what he is teaching against a 7 footer?"
If the answer is NO..then he is a fraud.

Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you can actually do it. Our bigs need a coach that actually do it...McHale, Hakeem, Abdul Jabar hopefully that clears things up for you.

i'm utterly conscious of the fact that i'm responding, and hating myself for it.

There is no difference between post moves for someone who's 4 feet tall and someone who's 8 feet tall. the mechanics are exactly the same. exactly. Why do our big coaches have to be HOFers? kareem is not going to tell Mcgee anything different what gene banks will tell him, or really you or me. you've mentioned drop steps, up and unders, pump fakes, etc. THAT IS IT. THAT IS THE EXTENT OF BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE THAT EXISTS ON THIS SUBJECT.

you keep saying "against a 7 footer"... why? as long as i can beat every other guy who's 5'10 out there with my post moves, and mcgee copies my moves? why can't he apply those moves against every other 7 footer out there? why are you arbitrarily declaring a chasm of technical intransitivity between the heights?

[tontoz]

i'm utterly conscious of the fact that i'm responding, and hating myself for it.

[WizarDynasty]

you need to practice your post moves against 7 footers standing reach because the height of rim never changes.
A center's post moves have to be perfected against the standing reach of another 7 footer --along with a 270 lb frame because that what he has to face in game time situations each night. If you can't mimic that in practice you are basically wasting your time.

See even i have compassion.

[montestewart]

you need to practice your post moves against 7 footers standing reach because the height of rim never changes.
A center's post moves have to be perfected against the standing reach of another 7 footer --along with a 270 lb frame because that what he has to face in game time situations each night. If you can't mimic that in practice you are basically wasting your time.

See even i have compassion.

How about if he works with Unseld? Unseld's 6'6" (generously) but he regularly held his own against 7 footers, essentially playing 6 inches taller than he was. He should be able to teach McGee to add 6 inches to his own frame (and get a big butt too), thus making McGee perhaps the 3rd tallest player in NBA history, after Muresan and Bol, and Muresan, can of course, take McGee to court and make him prove the case of his new found height against a true seven-and-a-half footer.

Anybody know where Muresan is this year? I haven't seen him at games.

[fugop]

The board is much more pleasant with generous use of ignore functionality.

[doclinkin]

you use the words---Gene Banks "knows how to execute".

i use the words "Can Gene Banks successfully execute what he is teaching against a 7 footer?"
If the answer is NO..then he is a fraud.

Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you can actually do it. Our bigs need a coach that actually do it...McHale, Hakeem, Abdul Jabar hopefully that clears things up for you.

i'm utterly conscious of the fact that i'm responding, and hating myself for it.

There is no difference between post moves for someone who's 4 feet tall and someone who's 8 feet tall. the mechanics are exactly the same. exactly. Why do our big coaches have to be HOFers? kareem is not going to tell Mcgee anything different what gene banks will tell him, or really you or me. you've mentioned drop steps, up and unders, pump fakes, etc. THAT IS IT. THAT IS THE EXTENT OF BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE THAT EXISTS ON THIS SUBJECT.

you keep saying "against a 7 footer"... why? as long as i can beat every other guy who's 5'10 out there with my post moves, and mcgee copies my moves? why can't he apply those moves against every other 7 footer out there? why are you arbitrarily declaring a chasm of technical intransitivity between the heights?

Well the mechanics are somewhat different, but the basics remain the same. The angle of the arc will need adjusting, the grip and finger roll will alter. That said, what's goofiest about the Wiz'Nasty rant is that his boy Blatche credits Sam Cassell for teaching moves that improved his post game last year. You know, Sammy, the 6'3" guard.

[Zonkerbl]

damn Nate, who peed in your lemonade?

McGee is coordinated, is skilled around the basket, has a finger roll as well as a sky hook and a decent jumper. He's got some tools, you make him sound like Kwame and he's not.

He doesn't have the strength to overwhelm people in the post and force them to foul him, that's for sure. He doesn't have any footwork to speak of or any indication that he's got the foot-to-eye coordination to develop it.

Look, you've gotta walk before you can run. First McGee needs to develop enough strength so he doesn't get overwhelmed himself on defense. Then you can talk about using that strength to steamroll other people. He's not there yet, and if he doesn't get good nutritional/workout advice he may never be.

Nivek and nate, I think iterations--that is, attempts without scolding or benching and perhaps with even a bit of encouragement are what Javale needs.

You guys love Flip, but IMO the 23-year old player has been a better player this season than the fifty-something year-old coach has been as a coach. Javale's done a pretty good job of doing what Flip has asked him to do. His defense and rebounding are damatically improved. As instructed, McGee's shot less. Javale intimidates at times. He runs the court well. His stamina seems to be no longer an issue.

What ghe Wizards should do is run two or three plays a half just for Javale. Zonker is correct about what McGee can do. Those moves do not involve strength or power, but rather fluid movement and timing. I think just having him score puts a world of pressure on opponents. McGee runs well and should get more opportunities in transition.

Remember: Javale once had 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. He and Kevin McHale (who did so in 1984) are the only guys to do that. McGee CAN score. Those who don't think so are IMO wrong. I think every shot he takes is rushed or forced because McGee has no support from Saunders, and he usually goes straight to the bench first shot he misses.

I think baby steps taken in the form of five plays a game should be called for Javale.

Why thank you ccj!

I'll take it one further and say if the staff were working with Javale to perfect his finger roll, sky hook, and jumper -- instead of screaming at him to stop shooting -- the shots he takes would be less rushed or forced. The staff has to tell him -- take that shot. That's a good shot.

Although maybe they are already. It just seems that way to me from the peanut gallery.

[Ruzious]

damn Nate, who peed in your lemonade?

McGee is coordinated, is skilled around the basket, has a finger roll as well as a sky hook and a decent jumper. He's got some tools, you make him sound like Kwame and he's not.

He doesn't have the strength to overwhelm people in the post and force them to foul him, that's for sure. He doesn't have any footwork to speak of or any indication that he's got the foot-to-eye coordination to develop it.

Look, you've gotta walk before you can run. First McGee needs to develop enough strength so he doesn't get overwhelmed himself on defense. Then you can talk about using that strength to steamroll other people. He's not there yet, and if he doesn't get good nutritional/workout advice he may never be.

Nivek and nate, I think iterations--that is, attempts without scolding or benching and perhaps with even a bit of encouragement are what Javale needs.

You guys love Flip, but IMO the 23-year old player has been a better player this season than the fifty-something year-old coach has been as a coach. Javale's done a pretty good job of doing what Flip has asked him to do. His defense and rebounding are damatically improved. As instructed, McGee's shot less. Javale intimidates at times. He runs the court well. His stamina seems to be no longer an issue.

What ghe Wizards should do is run two or three plays a half just for Javale. Zonker is correct about what McGee can do. Those moves do not involve strength or power, but rather fluid movement and timing. I think just having him score puts a world of pressure on opponents. McGee runs well and should get more opportunities in transition.

Remember: Javale once had 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. He and Kevin McHale (who did so in 1984) are the only guys to do that. McGee CAN score. Those who don't think so are IMO wrong. I think every shot he takes is rushed or forced because McGee has no support from Saunders, and he usually goes straight to the bench first shot he misses.

I think baby steps taken in the form of five plays a game should be called for Javale.

We should all throw lollipops on the court after every good offensive play McGee makes. Have a stoppage in play to show our appreciation.

And do the same after every bad play - to show encouragement. Maybe when he's 30, we can stop with that part. He'll maybe be old enough then to understand that the world can be cruel and doesn't always reward ineptitude. Actually, when he's 30, we should cut him. He would no longer be able to identify with the next set of challenging young jewels on the team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Or, you should patiently wait for his game to mature. He's 2 1/2 years younger than Nick Young and already a more coveted players.

It makes no sense how little patience Flip and others have with a player who is just turning 23 years old.

[Nivek]

WizDynasty: The criteria you have for selecting a mentor is absurdly limiting. Joe Bugel wasn't a Hall of Fame offensive lineman, but he was one of the best offensive line coaches in the league. Gary Kubiak was a crappy NFL QB, but a first-rate QB coach. Phil Jackson was a mediocre NBA player, but he's the best coach who ever lived. Buzz Braman never attempted a shot in the NBA, but he's probably the best shooting guru around.

Fact is, often times the best players do not make good coaches. That's because the best players often don't fully understand how they do it -- they just do it. The best coaches are the ones who can break the game down and effectively communicate to the player how to get better.

And, by the way, the Wizards did have a former elite post player on their coaching staff a few years back. Patrick Ewing was on staff to tutor the bigs. Even with the tutelage of Ewing, Haywood never developed a good post game, Etan was never more than a show pony, and Kwame never developed at all.

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah, Bob Knight barely played at Ohio State and is arguably one of the best teachers of basketball, ever. It's your ability to communicate that matters, not your playing ability.

[Nivek]

CCJ: You seem to think some of us "love" Flip. Speaking for myself, I don't love him. What I'm reacting to are the sweeping pronouncements and cries for his job based on specious reasoning and insufficient evidence.