[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[vallen]

Im really tired of reading speculation posts. We have already have 1000 pages of the crap, we just need a thread where definitive evidence is given in a article where we know what exactly is happening with these trade talks.

i'd say that the owner of another team saying in public that melo only wants to play in one place is pretty definitive.

Id say unless Melo caqlled that GM and said so himself, then that GM is just speculating. But no question I agree its looking good for us.

[seren]

Im really tired of reading speculation posts. We have already have 1000 pages of the crap, we just need a thread where definitive evidence is given in a article where we know what exactly is happening with these trade talks.

I suggest you only follow the wiretap. That would save you a lot of time. You won't find any news here that is not there.

[aggo]

Ppl need to understand that Den is going to make us do all the legwork in this deal.

It's conceivable that when they come to their senses they will ask that we find picks for Gallo. It's conceivable that a team like POR could be interested in Chandler or Gallo or AR and willing to pony up.

It is conceivable that the MAVs move allin and make a run at Chandler and give up that young PG that DEN would definitely be interested in. If not, we can find a suitor for picks or other incentives if not ourselves...


the fact is that DEN is probably still shell shocked.

They dont seem like a spiteful organization, but it wouldnt shock me if they tried to spite Melo here and simply not trade him at all.

We should begin concocting scenarios where we take on both ninja turtles, birdman, and balkman and perhaps even Nene.

[knicks82023]

Den Trades:
Carmelo
Anderson
Balkman

NY Trades:
Curry (contract mostly paid off)
Gallo
Walker
Azabuike (insurance picks up his contract soon I believe)
$3million
2011 and 2013 Knicks 1st rounders (from trading AR for a 2012 pick)
A 2nd rounder from GS


I don't see how this is not a fair offer really. We take on Anderson's bad contract, and supposedly a hold up with NJ was getting them to take Balkman in exchange for someone else.

They get a good young player in Gallo, Walker (who supposedly they like now), Curry's mostly paid contract, Azabuike's contract covered by insurance, and 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder and cash. This trade also saves them $4.6 million in cap room in just this season alone.

They get huge savings and prospects.

[K_ick_God]

Ken Berger talks about the same stuff I was mentioning the other day -- that there's no way that the cuts under the CBA will be drastic for max players:

If you think logically about that, it doesn't shape up as anything close to the catastrophic decision most people believe it would be.

If you assume the owners get every last piece of their draconian initial proposal, then Anthony would indeed be forfeiting tens of millions of dollars by forgoing the extension and holding out until after the CBA expires on July 1. The owners' proposal calls for a maximum contract length of four years in a sign-and-trade, and for a player of Anthony's service time, he'd max out at $47 million in a four-year deal that would start at 25 percent of a $45 million hard cap with 3 percent raises. That's the owners' proposal.

That's also John Salmons money for a three-time All-Star and a player fully capable of being a league scoring champion and leading a team to a championship -- provided he's in the right system with the right talent around him. His first-year salary under such a punitive new CBA would be $11.25 million -- barely more than Stern. That is the new pay structure Stern and the owners want. Sources say they won't get it without a protracted work stoppage.

But what Anthony's advisers have neglected to tell him is that rolling back existing contracts to fit the new hard-cap system also is part of the owners' proposal. Stars like Anthony and future free agents Chris Paul, Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard will never tolerate a system where James, Wade, Chris Bosh, Amar'e Stoudemire and Joe Johnson got theirs while prospective free agents like themselves will have to suffer.

According to a person involved in the formation of Anthony's strategy, he is unaware that the owners' proposal would make the three-year, $65 million extension Anthony would get as part of an extend-and-trade a moot point. Sources familiar with the bargaining process say they believe owners are using rollbacks as a negotiating threat and that star contracts would be grandfathered into a new labor agreement. But forgetting about rollbacks for a moment, here is another way Anthony could get a comparable financial deal by waiting -- one that he may not have considered.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1457 ... o-tell-him

[Chislic]

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[towelie]

you're a towel!

[nykfan70]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?chat_topics_id=1395&status=Active

This is what Larry has to say about the next CBA, from his most recent Salary Cap chat.

John in Brooklyn. NY:
Will the Knicks have enough cap room to sign Carmelo Anthony to a "max" contract this offseason?

Larry Coon:
We don't know, and anyone saying otherwise is just guessing.

The Knicks are committed to $44.222 million in salary next season. Wilson Chandler (whom I assume they want to hang onto) will have a free agent amount around $6 million, so let's say they are going to be at $50 million -- plus some more for their first round pick, roster holds, etc.

How much cap room does that equate to? Nobody knows. We don't know how the cap will be calculated in the next agreement, let alone approximately where it will be.

What's Melo's max salary? Again, nobody knows. The new agreement may drastically reduce max salaries.

So the only answer I can give you is a big "maybe." Sorry -- I know that's not satisfying, but it is what it is.

[seren]

I agree with Berger. We may see a decline in number of years but only by one year or so. I think most dramatic decline will be in salary exceptions like MLE and LLE. They may either go completely or be restricted in terms of years, ie to one or two year deals. Plus the cap will go down by adjustments to BRI. Another adjustment may be to help the teams to get out of contracts on out of court issues. Such as the case with Arenas.

[towelie]

I agree with Berger. We may see a decline in number of years but only by one year or so. I think most dramatic decline will be in salary exceptions like MLE and LLE. They may either go completely or be restricted in terms of years, ie to one or two year deals. Plus the cap will go down by adjustments to BRI. Another adjustment may be to help the teams to get out of contracts on out of court issues. Such as the case with Arenas.

Agree. Plus big market teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. may agree to revenue sharing just to avoid a lockout.

I think one of the biggest things the players have going for them in CBA negotiations is that the owners are likely divided. Not all of them will want to see a lockout -- not when NBA interest is booming, and certain teams with a limited timeframe to win another championship won't want a work stoppage.

In '99, it was the players who were divided, not the owners, since the main concessions in that CBA were to cap the max salary for superstars and introduce the rookie scale. So it really only impacted the superstars and the rookies, a minority of the Players Union. None of the players this time around will want to see a hard cap, let alone a hard cap that's LOWER than the current soft cap. I'd wager the owners cave before the players do.

[vallen]

I wouldnt bank my future on speculation.

[Pharmcat]

I wouldnt bank my future on speculation.

exactly, it makes ZERO sense

get the man now and give him his 65 extension

[Knicker23]

The idea of not wanting to give up a second round pick in Landry Fields, or Gallo / Chandler being deal breakers in a trade for Carmelo Anthony is pretty foolish... 'championship pieces this' 'big parts that'.. when it comes down to it none of those guys are on any sort of level that should hold us up from making a deal.. i'd be more staunch on not taking back bad salaries than not giving up certain players at this point..

I know we're slumping at the moment, but as Berman quoted MDA,

"Even Amar'e is slipping from 55-60 [percent] range to 45-to-50. Raymond went from 40's to low 30's and Wilson's come down. It all hit at one time."

guys are coming down to earth and we are looking real average.... we need another scorer if we want to remain somewhat in the middle of the pack

[K_ick_God]

I wouldnt bank my future on speculation.

Banking your future on speculation could also be settling for a bad deal with the Nets. Signing with a team you don't want to play with (that has little chance to win, like the Nets), only to have your extension reduced ... that would be a gamble that failed badly.

[knicks742]

He'll be fine financially. All we have to do now is build a decent package, which is most likely going to require 1 or 2 more teams. This will not be a straight trade with denver.

[captain subtext]

The idea of not wanting to give up a second round pick in Landry Fields,..

Way to disqualify yourself.

The only way you talk about Landry as a "second round pick" is if you want to point to his high value. We are paying the second best player in that draft 2nd round money. How do you not grasp how rare and valuable that is?

[god shammgod]

look if we have to give up gallo & fields then fine. but we're not there yet. wait until there's either a rental offer or another team melo would actually extend with before we give that up. patience.

[K_ick_God]

look if we have to give up gallo & fields then fine. but we're not there yet. wait until there's either a rental offer or another team melo would actually extend with before we give that up. patience.

I just don't see a deal that can beat a 10-20 pick for Randolph, our 2014 first, Gallo (or another pick instead, perhaps) and Walker.

Why put in Fields? Or Chandler for that matter? I'm not against putting in Chandler (I am dead set against Fields) but if we put in Chandler, you take out Gallo.

We can take back a bad contract.

The Bulls have a poor offer that Denver would only take out of spite, and there's nothing you can do about it if they're intent on spite, and the rest may be rental offers. What type of rental offer can beat the above? The Rockets don't have great assets and surely wouldn't give up all of them for a rental.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Bill has understood this situation from the outset:

Jonathan N (Ontario)


Bill! How's it going? So what are your thoughts on the Melo trade? I personally think it would've been a good idea for the Nets. Thoughts??

Bill Simmons (12:37 PM)


He wants to go to the Knicks, he's always wanted to go to the Knicks, and he's going to end up with the Knicks.

[god shammgod]

look if we have to give up gallo & fields then fine. but we're not there yet. wait until there's either a rental offer or another team melo would actually extend with before we give that up. patience.

I just don't see a deal that can beat a 10-20 pick for Randolph, our 2014 first, Gallo (or another pick instead, perhaps) and Walker.

Why put in Fields? Or Chandler for that matter? I'm not against putting in Chandler (I am dead set against Fields) but if we put in Chandler, you take out Gallo.

We can take back a bad contract.

The Bulls have a poor offer that Denver would only take out of spite, and there's nothing you can do about it if they're intent on spite, and the rest may be rental offers. What type of rental offer can beat the above? The Rockets don't have great assets and surely wouldn't give up all of them for a rental.

i don't see it either. they won't take the bulls offer out of spite because they're not getting any cap savings with it. i don't see a rental offer beating us and i think melo will scare those offers off by telling them there is absolutely no way he resigns. right now we hold firm. i understand that people want it done yesterday, so do i. it's in our best interest to be patient though.