[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

knickabocker88 · Post #1301 » by **knickabocker88** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:16 pm

Any Chance Kay's source is a certain FIU coach?

god shammgod · Post #1302 » by **god shammgod** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:16 pm

swisscheeseD wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i wish walsh was willing to take al back because i think that would make this easier and cheaper. oh well.

It's negotiation 101...We all know Donnie isn't going to show his cards this early in the game. He still has a month to let this play out, but layed out a reasonable starting point now. I have no doubt that Donnie will take back Harrington if need be, just as I believe he'd have no problem in swapping Gallo for Will if he had to.

i hope so but i wonder because donnie has been very cautious about adding salary. i wonder if he wants melo but also wants to retain some cap space in 2012.

AllanHoustonFan · Post #1303 » by **AllanHoustonFan** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:17 pm

knicks742 wrote:This is simply a horrendous first offer IF it is indeed true. Horrendous. You don't offer Chandler and Fields as your first offer, maybe you eventually have to give both of them up but you just set the floor of your offer at Chandler and Fields. Absolutely horrible move.

There first offer was Gallo/Curry/Pick back in September

Pharmcat · Post #1304 » by **Pharmcat** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:17 pm

knicks742 wrote:This is simply a horrendous first offer IF it is indeed true. Horrendous. You don't offer Chandler and Fields as your first offer, maybe you eventually have to give both of them up but you just set the floor of your offer at Chandler and Fields. Absolutely horrible move.

i think most understand that 2 of 3 will be gone in the deal

donnies good hand is the ability to take back harrington and save them that contract, he hasnt shown that yet

Knickplaya · Post #1305 » by **Knickplaya** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:18 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
knicks742 wrote:This is simply a horrendous first offer IF it is indeed true. Horrendous. You don't offer Chandler and Fields as your first offer, maybe you eventually have to give both of them up but you just set the floor of your offer at Chandler and Fields. Absolutely horrible move.

There first offer was Gallo/Curry/Pick back in September

We can't lowball them and piss them off though.

Post #1306 » by **moocow007** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:19 pm

CHARLYMURPHY wrote:
kneega wrote:
CHARLYMURPHY wrote:Why Trade Landry Fields why?? Who the hell trades a ROY candidate?

Hes our only SG, if we trade him we are not winning a championship with Bill Walker manning the helm.

The Knicks since the Ewing era have NEVER had two players like Melo and Stat play together. It has been proven time and time again that championship teams need AT LEAST two super-stars or a superstar and a couple of all-stars. At what point do we learn from our mistakes? By mistakes I mean over valuing our players and risking missing out on an opportunity to have two superstars play together. And most importantly TWO SUPERSTARS that WANT TO BE HERE. Two guys with TONS of play-off experience...

Who's the SG? Bill Walker? I wouldnt do the trade with fields unless theirs a 3rd team involved and us recieving a somewhat average SG. Even if we get Carmelo SG and C would be a new glaring need instead of just C

How about JR Smith? Not the boyscout that Fields is but Smith is a tough defender, can run the floor, can definitely shoot 3's and is also a great rebounder for a SG. Fitting him salary wise (as far as a trade goes) is the problem if the Knicks must take either Birdman or Harringtons contract in the deal.

Starksfor3 · Post #1307 » by **Starksfor3** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:20 pm

People are saying Melo is going to need a max contract to come here in the offseason. Why do you say that? If he holds out all this time and then turns the Knicks down cause they can't offer him a few million more to make him a max player....that would be kind of odd.

Who's to say Melo doesn't take less so Donnie has some room to maneuver within the cap? Also, not everyone is Denver (spiteful). I'm sure Donnie has good relationships with enough teams where he can dump a guy like Turiaf if necessary.

swisscheeseD · Post #1308 » by **swisscheeseD** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:21 pm

K742, how is it so horrible an offer?

I understand starting off negotiations by including 2 of 3 off the bat may seem crazy...but what you're not seeing is that the offer doesn't include us taking on future salary (Harrington or Birdman), plus it would be Chandler instead of Gallo meaning we would have Danilo on a rookie contract next season instead of having to re-up Chandler at upwards of $10+ million a year. We'd be right in the thick of a run at CP3 as is.

Walsh can always tweek the offer if Denver demands us taking on additional salary. He knows Fields is the guy they covet and included him out of the gate, he wants to show his interest. He wasn't "lowballing" them, but he wasn't extending the farm either.

Post #1309 » by **moocow007** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:21 pm

Knickplaya wrote:
AllanHoustonFan wrote:
knicks742 wrote:This is simply a horrendous first offer IF it is indeed true. Horrendous. You don't offer Chandler and Fields as your first offer, maybe you eventually have to give both of them up but you just set the floor of your offer at Chandler and Fields. Absolutely horrible move.

There first offer was Gallo/Curry/Pick back in September

We can't lowball them and piss them off though.

When you have no other real offers what exactly would be considered "lowball"? Obviously you don't want to be insulting, but let's be realistic...it's pretty apparently finally to everyone else and not just many Knick fans (who have known this for months) that he ONLY WANTS TO resign with the Knicks. So unless there is a rental offer out there that is better than it isn't lowballing. And the last thing that the Nuggets FO should be worried about is bering insulted...they've done their share to about a half dozen teams in the NBA already with their schenanigans.

swisscheeseD · Post #1310 » by **swisscheeseD** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:22 pm

Pharmcat wrote:donnies good hand is the ability to take back harrington and save them that contract, he hasnt shown that yet

Ugggh...it pains me to say that I agree with you.

Knicksrule2k4 · Post #1311 » by **Knicksrule2k4** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:23 pm

I'll take back Harrrington if we need too.. He had his moments and can be lethal off the bench..

Context · Post #1312 » by **Context** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:24 pm

knicks742 wrote:
kneega wrote:
CHARLYMURPHY wrote:Why Trade Landry Fields why?? Who the hell trades a ROY candidate?

Hes our only SG, if we trade him we are not winning a championship with Bill Walker manning the helm.

The Knicks since the Ewing era have NEVER had two players like Melo and Stat play together. It has been proven time and time again that championship teams need AT LEAST two super-stars or a superstar and a couple of all-stars. At what point do we learn from our mistakes? By mistakes I mean over valuing our players and risking missing out on an opportunity to have two superstars play together. And most importantly TWO SUPERSTARS that WANT TO BE HERE. Two guys with TONS of play-off experience...

I can understand that but you dont make that offer as a FIRST offer. Maybe it becomes a negotiated compromise that gets you to this offer but this offer just became the floor. Now, to get him, you are going to have to give up even more. Terrible move if true.

Oh I agree. My post was directed more to the group that has set (for lack of a better term) "deal breaker limitations" on acquiring Melo.

CHARLYMURPHY · Post #1313 » by **CHARLYMURPHY** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:24 pm

moocow007 wrote:
How about JR Smith? Not the boyscout that Fields is but Smith is a tough defender, can run the floor, can definitely shoot 3's and is also a great rebounder for a SG. Fitting him salary wise (as far as a trade goes) is the problem if the Knicks must take either Birdman or Harringtons contract in the deal.

I wouldnt mind JR Smith.. But isent his contract up after this year?

Post #1314 » by **moocow007** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:25 pm

Starksfor3 wrote:People are saying Melo is going to need a max contract to come here in the offseason. Why do you say that? If he holds out all this time and then turns the Knicks down cause they can't offer him a few million more to make him a max player....that would be kind of odd.

Who's to say Melo doesn't take less so Donnie has some room to maneuver within the cap? Also, not everyone is Denver (spiteful). I'm sure Donnie has good relationships with enough teams where he can dump a guy like Turiaf if necessary.

I can't see him taking less than max and being happy about it. And I would think that you want your cornerstone guy to be happy. So, no, I think Carmelo will get the max regardless of what the max is IF he decides to go the FA route.

As far as making room to be able to max him?

They should be able to move Turiaf relatively easily (easier than moving Jeffries) since, unlike Jeffries, Turiaf isn't owed near $7 million and didn't have a trade kicker. Including the customary $3M with Turiaf to a team for a future 2nd rounder (or a TPE) would mean that (excluding luxury tax if any) you'd only have to pay a guy like Turiaf $1.3M for next season out of your own pocket. That should be (at least on paper) easy to do.

Knicker23 · Post #1315 » by **Knicker23** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:25 pm

Not a surprising offer, though I would have guessed Gallo and Fields before Fields and Chandler... If true it seems like Donnie tried to put his best foot forward and give them what we'd realistically be willing to give up - I don't see us offering much more, if Denver doesn't want it we wait till FA....Swap in Gallo for either, and throw in randoms like Bill Walker if they like them, but I don't see it getting too much bigger than that offer..

Something tells me this may be BS though, I can't imagine, as Hahn said, this dealing be proposed again... why would it be treated any different than it was when it was last offered.. Knicks are going to need a third team and I think Donnie knows that..

I wouldn't expect Denver to accept this early anyway....

Any word on melo missing practice?

kosmovitelli · Post #1316 » by **kosmovitelli** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:25 pm

About the trade proposal, we're on a four-game losing streak so the Nuggets hope Walsh will become desperate and will give up the farm for Melo. We're not dealing from a position of strength right now. Not only we're on a losing streak but the whole league expects us to trade for Melo (because the Nets are out of the way) and the Melo talk could be a distraction for the team. It's probably how the Nuggets see it. They hope the Knicks will fall under 0.500 and our players will be distracted so Walsh will become desperate. It's really a poker game on both sides.

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #1317 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:26 pm

Starksfor3 wrote:People are saying Melo is going to need a max contract to come here in the offseason. Why do you say that? If he holds out all this time and then turns the Knicks down cause they can't offer him a few million more to make him a max player....that would be kind of odd.

Who's to say Melo doesn't take less so Donnie has some room to maneuver within the cap? Also, not everyone is Denver (spiteful). I'm sure Donnie has good relationships with enough teams where he can dump a guy like Turiaf if necessary.

Melo isn't going to take a less than max offer. Just get that out of your mind already.

Context · Post #1318 » by **Context** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:26 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:what could chandler get from other teams?

I know there was the rumor bout mayo

dallas doesnt really have much to offer

port wont pony up batum

any suggestions?

Clippers? Apparently the Clips have put acquiring a SF as one of their top priorities. With all this movement of superstar types and the statement out of Clip land of their "intent" to keep Griffin, it would seem logical that while Aminu has a lot of upside that they are looking to make a move now to establish themselves as more of a team of today and not a team of (perpetual) tomorrow.

Chandler to the Clips (he should be interested since he'd end up starting there at his natural positon and could be looking at spending the next 5 years or so playing alongide Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon), Aminu to the Nuggets? Aminu is in his 1st year of his rookie contract and has upside. He also plays the same position Carmelo would vacate.

get it done donnie!!!!

Yes moo, great potential trading partner. I could see the addition of Chandler elevating that team. I watched the Clipper-Blazer game on TNT last night.

Post #1319 » by **moocow007** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:27 pm

CHARLYMURPHY wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
How about JR Smith? Not the boyscout that Fields is but Smith is a tough defender, can run the floor, can definitely shoot 3's and is also a great rebounder for a SG. Fitting him salary wise (as far as a trade goes) is the problem if the Knicks must take either Birdman or Harringtons contract in the deal.

I wouldnt mind JR Smith.. But isent his contract up after this year?

Yes. And that actually wouldn't be a bad thing. If he doesn't work out the Knicks aren't on the hook for a long time with a malcontent. If he does work out then they have his rights and can offer him a contract that is fitting. Since they'd be over the cap anyway and money generally isn't a great limiting factor for them, it shouldn't be too difficult to bring him back. Especially when you consider that JR Smith is a local guy (born and raised right across the river in from midtown) so being here playing in front of his hometown should in a system that fits his game should be perfect (on paper) for him.

swisscheeseD · Post #1320 » by **swisscheeseD** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:30 pm

Hey Kosmo, since you're in the thread....

What is the first 1st Round pick we can actually offer to Denver as is? Since we have protections on the 2012 pick to Houston, doesn't that mean we can't trade our 2014 pick regardless since it technically may not still be ours (even though I'm sure we won't be a Top 5 lotto team in 2012)?