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[Camelo Thread Part 12] - Melo's list grows? pg. 50

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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#141 » by Pharmcat » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:07 pm

CHARLYMURPHY wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
alphad0gz wrote:There is lots to think about here. First, we cannot panic because of how we are playing. Of course some of the players are affected by the rumors. Its natural, and nobody is immune, including Carmelo.

New reports and quotes appearing every day suggest that CA is indeed willing to wait for FA and that he feels he can make up some of the money lost in endorsements. Really, we already knew this. The NBAPA also hopes that CA doesn't make a decision based on fear of salary Armageddon in the new CBA. The feeling is that Hunter will never agree to Draconian cuts to superstar salary.

The reason we are losing is because our two captains are trying to do too much. Amare and Felton need to share the ball and trust their teammates. Taking half the shots and shooting under 40% is not going to win many games. Give it up.

The offer to Denver was more or less fair under the circumstances. Maybe a substitution here or there but nothing more. Carmelo will come here as a FA so the offer shouldn't be more than we would have to renounce or sacrifice in July.

The armchair GMing here is weak sauce. The panic mode is EXACTLY what Denver hopes for. The key is to know all the circumstances and force the other guy to blink. NY knows. Denver is finding out. Nuggets HAVE to blink if NY (and Melo) stays strong.


just like how lebron was supposed to come as a FA last summer right?


Thats tottally different. Lebron was just speculation where with melo its pretty much a known fact he only wants to come to NY.


i wasnt aware carmelo has said himself to the public he is coming to NY regardless

whatever a "analyst" writes or tweet is still the same as b4: speculation
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#142 » by Context » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:07 pm

vallen wrote:
BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:George Karl was asked if Melo saga can go all the way to Feb. 24: "I think it can go further than that.''
about 1 hour ago via web

Wasn't Uriji hired with the edict to not get "Bosh'ed" or "Lebron'ed"?
The spite is gonna set their franchise back 5 (more) years.



Sound like DEN is calling Melos Bluff.



I expect that they will. I'm sticking to my original prediction. Melo will be a Knick by the summer.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#143 » by god shammgod » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:08 pm

according to isola the blazers want ar for a pick too
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks ... interested
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#144 » by Pharmcat » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:09 pm

god shammgod wrote:according to isola the blazers want ar for a pick too
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks ... interested


get it done donnie
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#145 » by Knicker23 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:16 pm

I'm sure Donnie could make it happen right now if he wanted .. but as Broussard pointed out, the Nuggets probably have expressed that they may want AR themselves
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#146 » by Context » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:28 pm

towelie wrote:
cavsfan_osiris wrote:Saying that Melo can 'make up lost money in endorsements' is one of the silliest statements I've ever heard. Whoever is making those types of statements are either ignorant or flat out lying. The money he loses out in not signing now cannot be made up.


Amar'e is getting more exposure, more hype, more ESPN coverage than he ever has in his career. He has another Nike deal coming up, and you can be sure he'll be getting more than if he were still a Sun.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1084560

This mantra of that there are no extra endorsements in NY is the same crap you spewed with LeBron. Although, even then, I admitted LeBron didn't really have much to gain since he was already a superstar and getting max exposure in Cleveland. Carmelo on the other hand is a fringe star who needs the bigger stage.


Guys why waste your time with people who are clearly jealous. I have been involved in MARKING for over 19 years. And I don't intend on wasting my energy trying to convince someone that the sky is blue... Let them all exaggerate how much money Carmelo is going to lose by holding out. He talks to Kobe regularly and a ton of other people. If he was concerned and it mattered to him. He would have signed the extension 7/8 MONTHS AGO. LOL. How much time was wasted debated whether BOSH and LEBRON would take less to play in Miami? And what happened? All of those people were wrong. Now all of a sudden fans that try to call us out for not being logical feel that the illogical is going to happen with the CBA situation. Whatever... Carmelo got married in NY-he lived here for the first 9 years of his life, it's the Mecca of basketball(where the lights shine the brightest) and he even mentioned out of his OWN mouth that it was his ultimate dream to play here- end of story!

Note to Denver ownership: Melo put your franchise on the map, stop being greedy, cut your losses, take the fair Knick offer (because the more I think about it the more that I am willing to pull Fields of the table) and move on! Or maybe they feel that there's more value in keeping him and making the play-offs. If that's the case then make an announcement so the rest of the players on your team can have some peace for the rest of the season.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#147 » by klemen4 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:29 pm

I saved this calculation from one poster month ago:

This the the Knicks 2011-2010 committed guaranteed salaries (in millions)

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker .9

That's $42.6m

Now 9.) Fields is non-guaranteed, but that's a moot point. Let's add his $800k. We'll leave off Rautins $800k (also non--guaranteed) and consider him a minor casualty.

$43.4m

Shawne Williams will be an UFA and the Knicks will have no Bird Rights for him. They'd need pure cap space or use of the MLE (we'll get to that) to sign him (unless for another minimum contract). If he shows anything worth more than the minimum (think Earl Baron last year), he's your second casualty.

Knicks have a 10.) 2011 1st round draft pick, and assuming it's between 15 (around $1.5m) and 23rd (about $1m), we're split the difference and add $1.25m

You're up to $44.65m for 10 players

Azubuike has a $6.6m cap hold. He's gone too.

Teams under the cap effectively loose use of the MLE, so that's about $5.8m the Knicks can't spend on the MLE.

Likewise the bi-annual exception (valued at $2.18m next year).

So we're already cut loose Rautins, and Azubuike, use of two exceptions worth $5.8m and $2.18m, which effectively cuts loose Williams.

Which bring us to 11.) Wilson Chandler.

$3.1m qualifying offer, $6.4m cap hold (the $6.4m is his cap figure until he either signs his QO, signs an contract with another team or is renounced by the Knicks).

But let's be (extreme) optimists and say he agrees to the QO.

Knicks cap figure is now $47.75m.

The 2010-11 cap is $58m. Let's assume it goes up to $60m in 2011-12.

Knicks would now have $12.25m to sign Carmelo Anthony, who as things stand right now, would be eligible for an $18m starting salary.

Assuming he wants it, Knicks are $5.75m short.

So if you want to keep Chandler (assuming he sighs for QO) you got to trade away at least $5.75m of salary, but only to teams with cap room that don't have to send any salary back.

And even IF you're willing to let Chandler go and renounce him, you're still $2.65m short.

So in re-summary, getting 'Melo for "nothing" likely costs you Chandler, Azubuike, Rautins, Williams, and two free agents exceptions worth $5.8m and $2.18, plus ANOTHER $2.65m in salary from somewhere(?)

As it stands, Randolph, Mozgov or Turiaf is really the only contracts that can come from (Walker AND Douglas perhaps if Anthony is willing to take a little less).

So who here thinks you can still get Anthony for "nothing"?


I think it is simple:

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why NY 2011 pick and probably Field would be in.

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. 2011 pick, Fields

For both sides IMO...

Chandler OR Gallinari
Randolph OR pick
2011 NY pick
Fields

...is a fair offer.

No need for Walsh to overpay.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#148 » by K_ick_God » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:32 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
god shammgod wrote:according to isola the blazers want ar for a pick too
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks ... interested


get it done donnie




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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#149 » by Context » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:34 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
i wasnt aware carmelo has said himself to the public he is coming to NY regardless

whatever a "analyst" writes or tweet is still the same as b4: speculation


This one's for you Pharmcat :wink: :

Carmelo Anthony's "ultimate dream" would be to play in New York, the Denver Nuggets forward said Friday in an interview with ESPN's Colleen Dominguez.

Anthony and his wife, LaLa Vazquez, are from the area.

"That's like the ultimate dream at the end of the day," Anthony said. "Who wouldn't want to go back home to play?"

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/ ... id=6023180
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#150 » by louieOrr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:37 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
towelie wrote:
cavsfan_osiris wrote:Saying that Melo can 'make up lost money in endorsements' is one of the silliest statements I've ever heard. Whoever is making those types of statements are either ignorant or flat out lying. The money he loses out in not signing now cannot be made up.


Amar'e is getting more exposure, more hype, more ESPN coverage than he ever has in his career. He has another Nike deal coming up, and you can be sure he'll be getting more than if he were still a Sun.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1084560

This mantra of that there are no extra endorsements in NY is the same crap you spewed with LeBron. Although, even then, I admitted LeBron didn't really have much to gain since he was already a superstar and getting max exposure in Cleveland. Carmelo on the other hand is a fringe star who needs the bigger stage.


eboost and zico coconut? LOL

i tend to agree, the marketing thing is so overrated, i cant recall one athelete who came to NY took less $$ and said Im gonna make it up in endorsements

its an overplayed hand...CC sabathia won a ring here and couldnt get more than a subway appearance


Dude, why do you keep coming with the CC Sabathia comparison. Its apples and oranges. There is a big difference between the endorsements from NBA players and MLB players. I know you know better then that.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#151 » by AllanHoustonFan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:39 pm

louieOrr wrote:Dude, why do you keep coming with the CC Sabathia comparison. Its apples and oranges. There is a big difference between the endorsements from NBA players and MLB players. I know you know better then that.



Don't give Pharmcat too much credit. He is the only person who can compare baseball endorsements to basketball.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#152 » by AllanHoustonFan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:39 pm

kneega wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
i wasnt aware carmelo has said himself to the public he is coming to NY regardless

whatever a "analyst" writes or tweet is still the same as b4: speculation


This one's for you Pharmcat :wink: :

Carmelo Anthony's "ultimate dream" would be to play in New York, the Denver Nuggets forward said Friday in an interview with ESPN's Colleen Dominguez.

Anthony and his wife, LaLa Vazquez, are from the area.

"That's like the ultimate dream at the end of the day," Anthony said. "Who wouldn't want to go back home to play?"

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/ ... id=6023180


Pharmcat will ignore this
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#153 » by louieOrr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:40 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
louieOrr wrote:Dude, why do you keep coming with the CC Sabathia comparison. Its apples and oranges. There is a big difference between the endorsements from NBA players and MLB players. I know you know better then that.



Don't give Pharmcat too much credit. He is the only person who can compare baseball endorsements to basketball.



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#154 » by AllanHoustonFan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:41 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:Saying that Melo can 'make up lost money in endorsements' is one of the silliest statements I've ever heard. Whoever is making those types of statements are either ignorant or flat out lying. The money he loses out in not signing now cannot be made up.


15 game losing streak
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#155 » by Context » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:45 pm

klemen4 wrote:I saved this calculation from one poster month ago:

This the the Knicks 2011-2010 committed guaranteed salaries (in millions)

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker .9

That's $42.6m

Now 9.) Fields is non-guaranteed, but that's a moot point. Let's add his $800k. We'll leave off Rautins $800k (also non--guaranteed) and consider him a minor casualty.

$43.4m

Shawne Williams will be an UFA and the Knicks will have no Bird Rights for him. They'd need pure cap space or use of the MLE (we'll get to that) to sign him (unless for another minimum contract). If he shows anything worth more than the minimum (think Earl Baron last year), he's your second casualty.

Knicks have a 10.) 2011 1st round draft pick, and assuming it's between 15 (around $1.5m) and 23rd (about $1m), we're split the difference and add $1.25m

You're up to $44.65m for 10 players

Azubuike has a $6.6m cap hold. He's gone too.

Teams under the cap effectively loose use of the MLE, so that's about $5.8m the Knicks can't spend on the MLE.

Likewise the bi-annual exception (valued at $2.18m next year).

So we're already cut loose Rautins, and Azubuike, use of two exceptions worth $5.8m and $2.18m, which effectively cuts loose Williams.

Which bring us to 11.) Wilson Chandler.

$3.1m qualifying offer, $6.4m cap hold (the $6.4m is his cap figure until he either signs his QO, signs an contract with another team or is renounced by the Knicks).

But let's be (extreme) optimists and say he agrees to the QO.

Knicks cap figure is now $47.75m.

The 2010-11 cap is $58m. Let's assume it goes up to $60m in 2011-12.

Knicks would now have $12.25m to sign Carmelo Anthony, who as things stand right now, would be eligible for an $18m starting salary.

Assuming he wants it, Knicks are $5.75m short.

So if you want to keep Chandler (assuming he sighs for QO) you got to trade away at least $5.75m of salary, but only to teams with cap room that don't have to send any salary back.

And even IF you're willing to let Chandler go and renounce him, you're still $2.65m short.

So in re-summary, getting 'Melo for "nothing" likely costs you Chandler, Azubuike, Rautins, Williams, and two free agents exceptions worth $5.8m and $2.18, plus ANOTHER $2.65m in salary from somewhere(?)

As it stands, Randolph, Mozgov or Turiaf is really the only contracts that can come from (Walker AND Douglas perhaps if Anthony is willing to take a little less).

So who here thinks you can still get Anthony for "nothing"?


I think it is simple:

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why NY 2011 pick and probably Field would be in.

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. 2011 pick, Fields

For both sides IMO...

Chandler OR Gallinari
Randolph OR pick
2011 NY pick
Fields

...is a fair offer.

No need for Walsh to overpay.


This is "concern" is moot. The entire world knows how much Dan Gilbert dislikes Lebron. Yet, in the end he executed a sign and trade with Miami. Denver at THAT POINT will do the same. It will just cost us 2 late 1st rounders...
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#156 » by falcindor » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:47 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
cavsfan_osiris wrote:Saying that Melo can 'make up lost money in endorsements' is one of the silliest statements I've ever heard. Whoever is making those types of statements are either ignorant or flat out lying. The money he loses out in not signing now cannot be made up.


15 game losing streak


Yes he can make up more money here. If Knicks can sign a player like Yi it can create even more money. opening up the Knicks to the Chinese market. Ask Tmac how much money he made in Houston. He was plastered all over China.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#157 » by klemen4 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:48 pm

This is "concern" is moot. The entire world knows how much Dan Gilbert dislikes Lebron. Yet, in the end he executed a sign and trade with Miami. Denver at THAT POINT will do the same. It will just cost us 2 late 1st rounders...

+ Chandler, Randolph(pick)
+ No MLE, NO bi-annual ex.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#158 » by nykfan70 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:48 pm

Sources: Carmelo Willing To Wait, Sign With Knicks As Free Agent

Several sources close to Carmelo Anthony tell Chris Broussard that he is willing to play out the season and sign in New York as a free agent next summer, feeling that he can make up lost salary through endorsements.

With the belief that Anthony will end up signing with the Knicks growing, teams may back off their pursuit of the All-Star forward.

"Sources also say sentiment around the league that Anthony will sign with New York is so strong that many teams that have been willing to trade for Anthony as a rental are now reconsidering," Broussard writes.

The Rockets are thought to be a prime candidate to rent Anthony but if the team feels its chances of convincing him to sign an extension to stay in Houston are slim, it will not make a substantial offer to Denver.

Sources tell Broussard that the Knicks' timetable for trading Anthony Randolph may be pushed back by about one week with the Nets pulling out of trade discussions to acquire Anthony.

Minnesota and Indiana are the likeliest destinations for Randolph because both teams have an available first-round pick that the Knicks can use in a trade for Anthony.

But the Nuggets may be interested in taking Randolph for themselves.

Via ESPN.com

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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#159 » by Context » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:55 pm

klemen4 wrote:
This is "concern" is moot. The entire world knows how much Dan Gilbert dislikes Lebron. Yet, in the end he executed a sign and trade with Miami. Denver at THAT POINT will do the same. It will just cost us 2 late 1st rounders...

+ Chandler, Randolph(pick)
+ No MLE, NO bi-annual ex.



Riiight.... I forgot about that article... Well what can we do? It seems that Denver's going to keep him and call his bluff at this point...
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 12] - Maybe its time 

Post#160 » by AllanHoustonFan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:01 pm

I really don't think Denver is going to call his bluff. Carmelo has said multiple times he thinks he will be traded by the deadline and I think Denver told him he will.
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