The Official Trade Proposal Thread (Not Including Melo)

[vincecarter4pres]

Trading for a middling player right now would be the same thing as trading for Troy Murphy last summer. The cap space is more important, as long as its not blown on Travis Outlaw again. Now, that's not to say you don't make a trade if its an absolute homerun, but Gerald Wallace is nowhere near that kind of player.

Footnotes FTW.

[Netaman]

Half of Granger's?
He's paid nearly the same per year.

Half in total, you know exactly what I meant. Wallace is off the cap the year CP3 and Dwill go into free agency. I have already agreed with you that Wallce is not the player that is worth pursuing. I incorrectly viewed his ability as a player in the class of borderline stars like Granger.

I'm not advocating trading for role players in any way. The more I looked at Wallace the more I realized he is a lot like Devin Harris, in the sense that if you don't watch him a lot you could perceive him to be a borderline all star when he is really a glorified role player.

BS, BS, BS!!!
The Knicks are attractive because they have a bonafide star, pretty much a top ten player. They have a coach player's like to play for, cap space and are in one of the greatest cities in the world which provides unparalleled marketing opportunites.
The Knicks are not attractive because of Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and Turiaf.

Agreed. I am not advocating making a deal for Felton, Fields or Turiaf. In fact that's EXACTLY what I want to avoid. I'm advocating trading for a borderline star who's contract allows us to maintain flexibility to get one of the 3 stars out there.

Obviously nobody as good as Amare is available. Iguadala's deal is too long but Granger is good enough to fit the bill. I know you're an advocate for trading for him so if you could just get the name "Gerald Wallace" out of your head we're saying the same thing.

And we were "almost forced to take on Rip" because of Leon Rose and satisfying soft ass Chauncey Billups from crying into his Iphone because he would have to fly his daughters out to NJ first class on weekends for two months of their life...

Who knows if Melo even approved of Rip's cap crippling deal?

I think we can assume that Melo's agent's desires are an extension of his. I'd be willing to bet that Melo probably thought it would be better to have Rip playing next to him then Vujacic or Morrow and certainly not in favor of just having more cap flexibility. Obviously assuming his opinion is pure speculation but I'd be willing to bet that if he didn't want to play with Rip, that part of the trade would not have been in discussion.

But those draft picks can be an end to a means.
So you trade for Wallace now, he's just good enough to take us to 31 wins instead of 25 and we go from the 5th pick to the 11.
Then Danny Granger becomes available on draft night and Bird won't take the 11th pick for him, but he would have taken the 5th and the GSW pick and add to this we would have $18 million locked up in Crash and Outlaw, making it impossible for us to reasonably deal for Granger anyway.
This is just one of a million examples as to why it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

The draft picks can be a means to an end. I don't disagree there, nor am I saying we should blow them all for no reason. Again I'm looking to do a deal for the right player, not just anyone, and Gerald Wallace was a miscalculation.

You keep saying this, but you're wrong.
No man's land is middling talent that occasionally makes the 8th seed after overachieving and winds up late lotto at the end of most seasons.
Top 5 gives a much better chance at jumping into top 3 and just an overall better chance at a franchise guy, plus an infinitely better trade asset.
You think Boston would have been able to acquire Ray Allen with the 11th pick that summer to form their Big 3?

Brandon Roy - 6xth overall
Chris Paul - 4th overall
Russell Westbrook - 4th overall
Dwyane Wade - 5th overall
Ray Allen - 5th overall

There aren't too many franchise guys in the league anyway, every team does not have one.

But the point being, at this point in this franchise's life, this is not the time to abandon a shot at one for a bunch of role players so we can go for the even bigger crap shoot, the true crap shoot and that is hoping for one of literally 3 franchise players to sign here, who may or may not even make it to free agency in two years in the first place, who again, are not going to be wowed by overrated players like Gerald Wallace, they are going to want to play with other true stars.

Your thinking is completely backwards.

Add to this, what is the problem with most of them coming out of the top3 picks?

The part of your post that I bolded is what I think is irrelevant to this discussion. We are not talking about a long term plan to build a team from square 1. We have 2 massive foundation pieces at the 4 and 5. We are talking about a plan for the next 18 months. You continue to ignore the main point of my argument. There are 3 star players who will be deciding their futures via trade/free agency over the course of time where there will be 2 drafts conducted. We currently have as many or more assets built up then any other team to get one of them - more important then that we need 1 of them to WANT to be here.

As we are seeing with Melo their desires will hold a massive influence over their final destination.

We just had a top 3 pick, who although raw, has shown immense flashes of potential... Oh, and guess what? His trade value is through the roof, other GM's pine for him and he was almost the centerpiece of a trade for... Guess what? A franchise player...

Back to the above point, that being we are in a GREAT position to have another top 3 pick and another shot at a franchise guy, whether that be Kyrie Irving, Perry Jones, or trading that top pick for Chris Paul and then trading for another straight up star using Favors and then filling out the roster with high level role players like Gerald Wallace with a plethora of future picks.

All that is compromised if we deal for middling players now, gain meaningless wins and lose desperately needed draft position, no matter how the pick is ultimately used.

Get it now?

I know we have a guy who was top 3 pick and potential franchise player. I also know what it cost to get him and accept the fact that the current management team is not willing to pay that cost next year. We know what Billy King is capable of and he is not sitting by idly. He is going to try to make this team better and he is going to give out money to someone to try to win more games.

Nowhere have I advocated trading our pick this year (which is already a lock to be in the top 10). Nowhere is this draft projected to be particularly strong. My main disagreement here is that we are already outside of the top 3 (4) and in all likelihood will get further from Kyrie Irving, not closer.

And lastly again the fact that games lost doesn't even necessarily translate to draft pick because of a totally unjust lottery. Wasn't Philly 6th or 7th worst in the NBA last year yet ended up picking ahead of one of the worst teams ever? Washington won just 1 game less then Philly and ended up first. The draft lottery is a complete crapshoot.


BOTTOMLINE -

We can worry about getting as many assets as possible but the fact of the matter remains if players don't want to come here because we suck, we aren't going to get them no matter how good our offers are. It's that simple. This doesn't mean we need to do stupid things to get better. Doing stupid things is never good. We need to make smart deals, keep our financial flexibility, and start trying to become a better team. That is what will attract better players.

If we accept the fact that this year's draft pick is relatively decided, somewhere between 5-10 depending on the lottery, then we are talking about how we should approach 2011-2012.

My 3 primary goals going into next season would be
1- maintain cap space to acquire a max player
2- not trade any of our major assets (Favors, our top 10 pick this year) unless it's for said max player
3- try to win the most possible games under the above conditions

[Netaman]

Trading for a middling player right now would be the same thing as trading for Troy Murphy last summer. The cap space is more important, as long as its not blown on Travis Outlaw again. Now, that's not to say you don't make a trade if its an absolute homerun, but Gerald Wallace is nowhere near that kind of player.

Footnotes FTW.

god damn it. why couldn't I have seen this before I spent 45 minutes multi-quoting.

I agree with this post 100000000%.

[Preludepunk27]

Hey I live in NC. I love Gerald Wallace. I've been a huge fan of his for 5-6 years now. My friends and I still think he's the scariest looking dude in the NBA.

With that said, as much as I love how tough he plays, I don't want him on the Nets. He gets in this week long stretches where he is a damn chucker and it drives me wild. On a good team, Gerald should be the #3 or #4 scorer. You know you're in trouble when he is your #1 or #2 like he's been on Charlotte for the past half a decade.

Not trying to bash him too much cause I'm still a big fan of his, but he is what he is. He's a very athletic defender with ok offensive skills. Lets not get ahead of ourselves and talk about trading for him though hoping he'd make this team significantly better. If at all, he may win us 2-3 more games if we basically gave Charlotte ONLY cap space like Murphy.

I just don't think he's right for this team at all at this point. I'm more than happy right now going with the roster we got the rest of the season. Buy our Murphy or trade him for whatever you can get that doesn't kill our flexibility.

[8 Mile Ilic]

Let's get some OJ Mayo *****es

[treiz]

BOTTOMLINE -

We can worry about getting as many assets as possible but the fact of the matter remains if players don't want to come here because we suck, we aren't going to get them no matter how good our offers are. It's that simple. This doesn't mean we need to do stupid things to get better. Doing stupid things is never good. We need to make smart deals, keep our financial flexibility, and start trying to become a better team. That is what will attract better players.

If we accept the fact that this year's draft pick is relatively decided, somewhere between 5-10 depending on the lottery, then we are talking about how we should approach 2011-2012.

My 3 primary goals going into next season would be
1- maintain cap space to acquire a max player
2- not trade any of our major assets (Favors, our top 10 pick this year) unless it's for said max player
3- try to win the most possible games under the above conditions

And the best way to be a good team is through the draft, plain and simple, it's low risk high reward. Look at Portland, even though Oden didn't really pan out, is is detrimental to how they wanna keep building? What about Thabeet? Lottery guys tend to earn around $5 million per, which is good for a rookie and if they do pan out, that is very cheap, if they don't, there's usually a team option by the 3rd year.

What we need to be doing is remaining patient, at the end of the day we've only been rebuilding for a couple of years, that's a very short period of time in terms of rebuilding, look at Boston and how long it took them, look at Seattle/OKC, look at Portland, look at the Clippers (so far anyway), building a contender takes years. I don't want to see all of our assets thrown away on guys like Melo, Granger or Crash, if we are to sacrifice the assets that we have, we better be getting a legit MVP candidate from the get go.

[captaincrunk]

Wallace would be a nice expiring contract that can play at a much higher level than Murphy next year, or the year after. If you really want to just hold on to cap space enjoy.

[Skip2MY]

My thing is to figure out what direction the Nets are going in:
1) As stated all over the Board... Devin Harris is not it
2) I like both Lopez and Favors but I dont think they compliment each other well... I think you may have to pick one.
3) I think Nets have enough assets to make their team dangerous depending on the direction they want to go.

I think two most important positions they will have to figure out is PG and C.

For PG I have two options:
1)We go Lotto and put our chips into Kyrie Irving who will likely go one or two
a) I see people have been talking about Harris to Portland for Andre Miller and one of their 1st (likely the late one both are 17th through 20th currently)
b) I can see us trading expirings and late 1st to Washington for Rashard Lewis and unprotected pick... I think Wiz may do that or could take another piece or two. But this gives (currently) the 4th and 5th best chances at the lotto

Kyrie Irving learning from Andre Miller for a year would be great. If Kyrie Irving falls though... I dont think Kemba Walker is a good enough 2nd option so plan B:

Lotto pick for Steph Curry who is on the market. Best PG available who I think will be better than Harris easily. PTs, Asts, Rebs, BB IQ, Proven Player, Young. Leaning from CP3 and all he has to learn is defense a bit more who not better than Avery Johnson.

Thats my two options for PG. Rubio is my distant 3rd option.*I didnt do a Chris Paul option because we dont want another Melo situation.
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As far as the front court like I said I think it is either Lopez or Favors...not both:

If its Lopez, I think only one PF really balances the front court and thats... Kevin Love...lmao
i know, I know. But he grabs enough rebounds for the both of them and with the extra focus hopefully Lopez can get back to 8 rebs a game. They both can score but Love's range to the three allows Lopez to operate even better inside. Both are capable of 20-30pts a game and would be deadly in my eyes with the right roster. Nets have the pieces and enough pieces to acquire Love.
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If its Favors, there is a little more risk because of the centers on the market.

Option #1 Andrew Bynum... I think would be great in the East and next to Favors but Health is an issue. Harris and Lopez for Bynum and Shannon Brown... I think LA may have to entertain that idea.

Option #2... even more risky is Greg Oden. I think if you get him the right medical attention and significent time off, he can possibly have a career the way Zydrunas Ilgauskas had a career with horrible injuries and surgeries at the beginning of his career to only finish his career as a durable and former all star.

Option #3... wait for Dwight who i think is more likely to go to a team needing one piece in a few years then the other allstars.
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EXTRA<EXTRA:
I say we take advantage of Knicks being the team to likely land Carmelo now and try and help ourselves...

Travis Outlaw/Quinton Ross/ LAL 2011 1st/ Latest of our three 2012 1st rd picks

for

Wilson Chandler(signed and extended)/BillWalker/ Keleena Azuibuke/ 2014 1st rd pick/ 2012 GS 2nd rd pick

We get out of Outlaw's contract, get a great wing in Chandler. Progressing Bill Walker and future 1st. Knicks will have those two picks and the one they will get for Anthony Randolph for Melo.

[Rockice_8]

^^^ Skip I have to completely disagree here. Lopez and Favors compliment each other very well I think. Lopez could be a great offensive player and Favors has an expanding offense. Lopez is a poor rebounder while Favors could be one of the best. If Favors could master an elbow jumper or baseline jumper then he's the perfect fit.

Sure Love fits nice too but Favors can fit there as well.

As for Crash I don't think we should make a move for him. He is a hustle guy but shoots a poor percentage and has a less then stellar PER %. I'd like to take a shot on Wilson Chandler who I think is a younger version of Crash with a better jumper.

Chandler could be had for less then what Crash is making, has improved his range out to the 3pt line, plays hard on the defensive end (while covering multiple positions), and is much younger. He is a good rebounder for a SF which is a must and really is a solid all around player with few weaknesses.

If we could lock him up at 5 years for 40-45 million I'd jump on that. Chandler/Favors/Lopez is a solid frontcourt for the future.

Now we just have to work on the backcourt (Curry anyone). 2011 #1/ HOU #1 and Damian James for Curry. Follow that up with a GS#1/NJ#2 for Mayo and roll with that.

Curry/Farmar
Mayo/Morrow
Chandler/Outlaw
Favors/Hump
Lopez/LA#1 (or anyone but Petro)

We can run, shoot, defend, and are very young. I man can dream right?

[vincecarter4pres]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -situation

Here we go again...

[Netaman]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/24/could-deron-williams-be-the-next-carmelo-anthony-situation

Here we go again...

The Jazz organization is typically very smart and pre-emptive with these kinds of things. If they offered us DWill for Favors, Devin, and our first and the GSW first would we do it? Got to think that is the best possible return for any superstar - however it would severely cut into our tradeable assets. Would have to bank on being in the drivers seat for free agents in he offseason.

Doubt the Jazz would offer since their doomsday is 2 years away but you never know. I don't think we could say no to that, especially since we would still have Troy's huge expiring.

[vincecarter4pres]

If it gains any traction it will happen in the offseason IMO.

[Quackenboss]

Hi NJ board,

I'd love to get Favors on the Warriors and I see that some of you are interested in Curry...

My first thought is:

Harris, Favors, GSW pick for Curry, Biedrins

What do you guys think? I know Biedrins has been **** recently, but I think he'll bounce back and would be a pretty good complement to Lopez.

[Pugsley_2491]

Hi NJ board,

I'd love to get Favors on the Warriors and I see that some of you are interested in Curry...

My first thought is:

Harris, Favors, GSW pick for Curry, Biedrins

What do you guys think? I know Biedrins has been **** recently, but I think he'll bounce back and would be a pretty good complement to Lopez.

puke

[Preludepunk27]

Hi NJ board,

I'd love to get Favors on the Warriors and I see that some of you are interested in Curry...

My first thought is:

Harris, Favors, GSW pick for Curry, Biedrins

What do you guys think? I know Biedrins has been **** recently, but I think he'll bounce back and would be a pretty good complement to Lopez.

Hi man,

Thanks for stopping by. I would never call that a "bad deal" but I wouldn't call it good for the Nets at all either.

A few things:
1. Truthfully, I don't think Ellis and Harris could co-exist. Just my opinion.
2. I really don't think we'd have any level of interest in Biedrins. I can't see him and Brook playing well together at all. Briedrens does not have the offensive game to play away from the basket so he'd definitely clog the middle when Brook goes to work. That just kills the deal for me.
3. I'm not sure why the GSW pick has to be there. Obviously you have high regard for Curry, Nets have high regard for Favors. Unless we were like "Oh jeez we NEED Curry, I don't think we'd offer ANY first round pick in a deal similar to what you offered. Again, just my opinion.

I've personally looked at a deal for Curry to the Nets though. I love the kid. Davidson is a rival of my college (Elon) so I've seen him grow up (and hand Elon a few crushing defeats in the process). As much as I love him, we'd had to significantly upgrade our perimeter defense because the kid can't guard anyone stronger than him. That's not a problem for you guys in a trade sending him out obviously, I'm just trying to help you get in the Nets head to understand other reasons we'd be slightly concerned.

Something I think you should look at would be bringing a 3rd team into this where we land Curry and another player while moving Devin, Favors, Murphy to the teams involved (still don't know if you'd get a pick from us though). Maybe Indy getting Granger to Jersey, maybe the Kings and us nabbing Thompson or Landry, Memphis having us nab Mayo. I think then we'd be willing to start discussing draft picks too.

But the fact of the matter is, we're thin on the front court so it'd be tough for us to move Favors unless we couldn't refuse the deal and also we'll had to address some other positions if we made a move for Curry. At this point too, we'd have to be IN LOVE with the deal to move Favors.

Hope that helps.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hi NJ board,

I'd love to get Favors on the Warriors and I see that some of you are interested in Curry...

My first thought is:

Harris, Favors, GSW pick for Curry, Biedrins

What do you guys think? I know Biedrins has been **** recently, but I think he'll bounce back and would be a pretty good complement to Lopez.

Maybe there would be some interest in a Favors for Curry swap on draft night depending on where we land in the lotto, but no way NJ is adding all that extra incentive to the deal, nor taking on Biedrins gross contract, plus Lopez is a center through and through and Biedrins seems to be the same, so no would be the answer IMO.

If anything it would be something along the lines of Favors straight up for Curry and we'd find another way to deal Harris if need be, or you could send Dorell Wright in exchange for him.

[Quackenboss]

Thanks for the responses.

My thinking was that Curry's value was higher than Favors's because Curry's a surefire NBA starter whereas we're not sure yet whether Favors is going to pan out. Harris was included because we would need another starting guard and I don't see GSW trading Curry in a situation where we get worse in the short-term. But I can see how including the pick on your end is probably too much.

[vincecarter4pres]

Thanks for the responses.

My thinking was that Curry's value was higher than Favors's because Curry's a surefire NBA starter whereas we're not sure yet whether Favors is going to pan out. Harris was included because we would need another starting guard and I don't see GSW trading Curry in a situation where we get worse in the short-term. But I can see how including the pick on your end is probably too much.

Yeah, say we wound up 3rd in the draft and Kyrie Irving was gone, I would rather trade you the 3rd overall pick and your pick back then deal Favors honestly and again, at least me personally, I want no part in Beans. Again though, would be open to a Devin for Wright and Charlie Bell swap(salary filler).

[Rockice_8]

I responded to a thread on the trade board and it got some positive responses regarding Mayo.

The trade was Sasha, GS pick, LAL pick for Mayo and Thabeet. Just curious what you guys thought.

I think Mayo could help us by keeping Morrow on the bench where he belongs. Mayo plays good defense, which is a must, and I think could be a good player to build with.

I break it up like this GS pick (late lotto most likely) for Mayo and Sasha and LAL pick for Thabeet.

Thabeet could be a decent backup as I'd love to see Petro never see another minute.

Actually I just checked and we'd have to add Uzoh, Graham, and Ross to match salaries but thats fine. They'd be bought out anyway.

Thoughts?

[vincecarter4pres]

I wouldn't absorb Thabust's contract for Mayo, it's Diop like.

Mayo's value is at an all time low and he isn't that good to begin with.

I'm starting to think I would rather stick with Morrow then my original idea of Morrow and the GSW pick for O.J.

I like Sasha, but chances are we let him go in the offseason.

Would be open to something like Sasha, picks(not ours) and Hump for Mayo, Darrell Arthur and Haddadi(salary filler).