Road Losses:McGee Fouls ... What Flip Should Do

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Before any of you assume I think McGee is the caliber player Rodman was, I do not.

The comparison is he was unusual and did his own thing. McGee has a high motor and an edge to him. Dude might not know the plays. Neither did Nick. I have to give Ernie credit for getting talented, raw players. Flip needs to chill some and not lose games over minor mistakes. McGee is starting to defend real well.

I am confident he's got a good offensive game, too.

[Ed Wood]

The moron thing is me being me CCJ, the bottom line is that if you can set aside my writing style for a second we don't disagree that much and frankly you have no basis whatsoever for the degree to which we do reading that that again it's harsher than I intended it to be.

I like JaVale (who is not a moron as far as a I know, I meant to communicate that while Brendan wasn't ravaging the NBA as a rookie JaVale was incredibly raw and the amount of progress he has made should be a credit to him and to the staff, not somehow a black eye for Flip) and I am aware that the team is better when he plays this year (and not Hilton? Huh, what a twist). I don't mind him playing and I don't mind him playing starter's minutes (I like these things in fact). I don't even mind JaVale getting more involved offensively, as I mentioned in some other thread, though I think his post game is ugly as sin and I don't understand how you're so optimistic about it. The things that I disagree with, reasonably I think, are these:

1. Flip has some personal vendetta against JaVale, is intentionally burying him, or is somehow hindering JaVale's development by not giving him all-star minutes. JaVale is playing better under Flip and particularly his defense and rebounding are no longer so bad that it is hard to justify having him on the court. That alone should at least suggest that Flip (and the staff, I don't want to either credit or lambaste Flip for anything that is an organizational effort) is doing something right. JaVale is fifteenth in the NBA in minuter per game as a center, only one guy he's definitely better than (Channing Frye) plays more and Frye plays some at power forward as well. Only two guys drafted in JaVale's class or after his class (Roy Hibbert and Brook Lopez) play more and only Lopez is younger (barely) in that top fifteen.

2. JaVale is fine, he does not need to improve at all or perhaps the organization is foolish to try to work with him to help him improve. The same guy who basically every single person connected to the NBA describes as incredibly talented but unpolished? And while I am not especially well educated on the intricacies of basketball Flip is generally considered to be a very good offensive coach and at the very least some kind of offensive system is presumably better than no offensive system. Subjectively I tend to see that the Wizards start games (particularly at home) very well and then fall off significantly in the second quarter. To me this suggests that when the team is remaining fairly faithful to the system things go well and as the game progresses and that adherence breaks down the offense begins to struggle.

3. JaVale playing more is a direct route to more wins, or that the team wins simply because JaVale plays more. JaVale has a very big impact on the team, of that I have no doubt. On the other hand, while JaVale does play about 4.5 more minutes in the team's wins he also contributes about 3.5 points on 4% better shooting from the field and over 20% better from the line, around 2 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game in wins. Unless JaVale scores almost a point a minute and close to a rebound and a block every two minutes every minute after the 26th minute he's in the game I'd say he plays much better in wins, and that's probably why he plays more (by the way those are per 40 averages of 30 points, 15.8 rebounds, 12.3 blocks and -5 fouls if JaVale were actually putting up those numbers in the amount of time more he plays in wins than in losses). When JaVale plays well he plays more. When JaVale plays well we win more often. Playing JaVale more, even when he plays poorly by his standards might help us win a couple of games over a season but getting to my final point...

4. It's all about the wins (kiss the rings baby). I'm not advocating loosing intentionally, but this is not the year that the Wizards are going to achieve anything meaningful in terms of success on the court. The team should be doing whatever it can in order to improve internally so in future years it is in a position to achieve something meaningful. I mean you also want to see Kevin Seraphin more (so do I) but how do you parse that with wanting to win. The man must foul to live at the moment and he gets lost A LOT. Not that he's played a ton of minutes but he easily has the worst simple rating of anybody on the team who's played more than 1% of the team's minutes (Hamady N'Diaye come on down!) and I don't think you can reconcile playing him, even over the very bad Hilton Armstrong, and yet insisting wins are of preeminent importance.

So CCJ, the only reason I see right now to really ramp up JaVale's minutes would be if doing so would accelerate his development as a player. Maybe that would work, but I don't know that it would, and I don't really think that it would. I think trying to use on court situations as teaching situations and to provide him with constant feedback and instruction is probably a better way to go. But perhaps we disagree.

Also a minor point but if JaVale played in Orlando he'd have to scrape for minutes as a backup behind Howard because neither has the range to provide enough spacing to play them together, he'd play less in Atlanta because Al Horford and Josh Smith are better players and Smith is Not a Small Forward and I think Jerry Sloan would probably try to poison him or something. Good chat, sorry if you read all that.

[hands11]

Now that argument about more shots sounds a lot like what I used to say about Haywood.

If the idea is to give him a few more set plays so he doesn't force it when he does touch the ball, I would agree. Same thing was happening to Haywood. But McGee is at the early stages of deserving this so I hardly see it like Flip has been doing anything wrong. They are running ally-ops for him and he gets shots in the flow of the game. McGee has lacked discipline in his game in a major way and has taken so insanely foolish looking shots. He is just recently adding the hook. He could take a few 10 footers. We know he practiced it all summer. Just no turnaround fading shots please. If he can hit that 10 footer a few times, then teams will have to come out and cover him so he can blow by them. Same issue Wall is having. Every player on the team should be able to hit that shot.

I have no problem with him taking reasonable shots as long as he is taking care of job one which is rebounding and playing defense.

If you want to make the case for wins based on the magic 10 shots number I guess you can.

10 + Shots 3-2
9+ Shots 4-5

Now that is over the whole season. But for the whole season, the following is also true.

They are also 10-3 in their wins when he shot less than 10 shots.

So it depends on how you slice the numbers. And that was the whole season.

I think it is more relevant to focus on the roster since we add Lewis since Gil would have influenced that other games and Wall missed a lot of games. Also looking at the time since Lewis was added is a better picture of what players like Wall look like with other teams adjusting to them. This is the team we have. Lets start with the team from day one of Lewis being added which isn't allowing for no gelling of him or him starting.

All game 7-10
With him as the starter 7-9
With him as the starter and Dray playing 7-8
With him as the starter and Dray playing and a PG to back up Wall 7-7

So Wall, Nick, Lewis, Dray, McGee and any PG to back Wall up is 7-7

Of those game when McGee gets 10 rebounds they are 4-0
Of those game when McGee gets 9 + shots they are 3-0
Of those game when McGee gets 9 + shots or 10 they are 6-0

So it looks like if they have their starting roster and a back up PG

Wall, Nick, Lewis, Dray, McGee and any PG to back Wall

And McGee is having an impact with shot attempt and/or rebounds, then they win 100% of the time.

Seeing as this team needs rebounds, I vote for Flip staying on him about rebounding first. It's not going to cut it if he is in early foul trouble or games like Charlotte where he was 25 min 3-4 shooting and only 1 rebound against Kwame.

[hands11]

Before any of you assume I think McGee is the caliber player Rodman was, I do not.

The comparison is he was unusual and did his own thing. McGee has a high motor and an edge to him. Dude might not know the plays. Neither did Nick. I have to give Ernie credit for getting talented, raw players. Flip needs to chill some and not lose games over minor mistakes. McGee is starting to defend real well.

I am confident he's got a good offensive game, too.

The Rodman comparison is actually not that bad. Both do have good motors. But Rodman was an insane rebounder. McGee showed a small flash of that early this year but Rodman did it each and every game. So when he jacked up a shot that he shouldn't have, you laughed and lived with it. Most his shots where in transition and put backs. Big Ben was the same way.

The good news is that McGee is actually averaging 10.4 rebounds per 36 in year 3. In year 3 Rodman was averaging 12.6 It wasn't till year 6 when he started average 16.7 per 36 minutes. If McGee got focused, he could be at 12.6 this year. That should be his man focus. Clearing all the boards, including defensive ones. Rodman offensive rebound count never really changed much. It was the DRB that went way up.

With McGee it's all about focus and consistency. I still think he has the raw tools to be an amazing player. Now chiseling that out of the player we drafted is the challenge. I have no problem with a coach being tough with a player like this so they get molded early into a winning professional player. The upside to doing this right is to great. He has to start that process now. Not doing this for him would be a waste and a disservice to McGee, the team and the fans.

[hands11]

For those who saw the win over Boston, please note my first post in this thread.

When McGee gets FGAs and minutes good things happen.

McGee does not need to go to the gym. It is not a disaster when he shoots. His free throws and his jump shot are much better when he has freedom from fear of Flip flipping out and benching him.

The guy is so tall nobody will block his face up. His hook is effective and his touch around the rim us good. He is also a very good ball handler for a C.

But I have already seen his face up blocked several times because he doesn't release it very high. Lewis's release he do not have.

I think every player has a role. McGee can be used more offensively, but like the numbers I posted show, we win when he rebounds and stays out of foul trouble and that is the main thing this team needs. That is the first thing he needs to do. If he does that, I have no problem with him shooting a few more. Specially if he is pressing the other teams post players and getting fouled. But I want to see him do it with power so he gets the foul. He is getting better and being more aggressive. For the soft player he was when he got here, he has seemed to toughen up some. I see more fire in him. He doesn't seem to be fading away as much.

With his height and leaps, if he can learn to get a little leverage, he should be able to not only dunk, but dunk on other centers.

[cwb3]

I like the idea of letting McGee play thru the early fouls. He has 6 fouls, let him use them. Perhaps he will learn that he will stay on the floor longer, and be more effective on defense, if he boxes out his man and does not try to block EVERY shot in his vicinity.

[Zonkerbl]

loosing

You're doing that intentionally to piss me off, aren't you?

[dangermouse]

McGee should grow a manly beard.

Nobody took me seriously until I grew a manly beard.

[TGW]

This thread is real specific and helpful information for Flip.

[Illuminaire]

I like the idea of letting McGee play thru the early fouls. He has 6 fouls, let him use them. Perhaps he will learn that he will stay on the floor longer, and be more effective on defense, if he boxes out his man and does not try to block EVERY shot in his vicinity.

The counter-argument is that Flip is trying to train McGee to play with enough control and situational awareness NOT to foul out. That is to say, Flip cares more about developing a McGee who can play 30+ productive minutes a game next year, than enabling a McGee who is constantly in foul trouble this year.

Flip appears to be taking the long view when making his coaching choices. I don't agree with some of his decisions, but I can't fault him for working from a teacher's mentality rather than a "whatever it takes to win a game" one. Heck, we should be grateful to have a coach with enough balls to do put the good of the team above his own W-L record.

[hands11]

I like the idea of letting McGee play thru the early fouls. He has 6 fouls, let him use them. Perhaps he will learn that he will stay on the floor longer, and be more effective on defense, if he boxes out his man and does not try to block EVERY shot in his vicinity.

The counter-argument is that Flip is trying to train McGee to play with enough control and situational awareness NOT to foul out. That is to say, Flip cares more about developing a McGee who can play 30+ productive minutes a game next year, than enabling a McGee who is constantly in foul trouble this year.

Flip appears to be taking the long view when making his coaching choices. I don't agree with some of his decisions, but I can't fault him for working from a teacher's mentality rather than a "whatever it takes to win a game" one. Heck, we should be grateful to have a coach with enough balls to do put the good of the team above his own W-L record.

You would think.

There are lots of ways to do this and only one way can be done at a time so you either agree with that one way or you are one of 100 other views. It's in the numbers that he is going to get slammed more than he is going to be agreed with.

And this teams has so many moving parts. McGee is just one of them. There are other assets to be evaluated for keepers or trade pieces, hopefully at greater value if handled properly and things work out.

Everyone on this team has holes in their game.

But as was mentioned in that article, we are set up to have a window so that is a good thing. The bad news is that window is 2 years from now so we have a lot of losing to do before we get there.

Such to be playing for last place vs playing for the playoffs with almost half a season to go.