Ferguson Done

[emfive]

cliff press conference is on leaftv right now. Said fergusons will be on at 4 o'clock (or 4:30 not sure)

peddie says the new gm (after cliff) will build for the future but also short term. Which kind of makes no sense lol

Scares the HE LL out of me for sure!

[emfive]

Very true. If you look at the Boston Red Sox, winning just led to more profits and being ultra competitive has just brought new fans to Red Sox nation.

The Teacher's Pension Plan is a small problem. I'd rather see one owner, but that is a small issue. The biggest problem is Peddie.

The Teachers Pension Fund acts the same way in every enterprise. They do not run the ship. They let hired guns do the job. Let us hope they gat a hired gun in the same talent range as they got for the Bball team.

Peddie better be out of the hockey operations picture. I wish Peddie had a more public beheading. Cuz he needs to be told!

[ansoncarter]

^at least the media's starting to call him out again

like one guy asked him why he doesn't replace himself with cliff for the new gm search lol

another asked him if it even made any sense to say they could build for both the short and long term

[OldNo7]

Its just too bad Peddie and the board will still rule the roost.

[Crowned]

It's a shame that Ferguson's job came at the expense of upper management. I would've liked to have seen what he could've done with full control of this roster, and rebuilt when he wanted to. I'm sure he'll get a job elsewhere, based on his drafting abilities alone.

[Pchu]

This is pretty similar to the Raptor situation a couple of years ago. The Raps fired an incompetent GM, got an older/wise man as an interim GM and then hired someone who is actually good at his job.

So Cliff Fletcher is the Leaf's version of Wayne Emery. We will see if his mandate is to cut some payroll and get some young players+draft picks. It will be interesting to see if he does deal Mats Sundin, since Cliff was the one who brought Sundin here. They do need to hire a GM before the season end though, Cliff's draft record isn't too stellar; and I would like to see the New GM get more of a chance to make his mark here.

[bryant08]

John Ferguson Jr. now has a tarnished reputation, although he's just taking the blame for the incompetencies of others. But in the end, JFJ had an ample amount of opportunities to make that big move, but he never pulled the plug. Let's see what Cliff can do in the short-term, and see what (hopefully) Poile/Burke/Rutherford can do long-term

[whysoserious]

This is pretty similar to the Raptor situation a couple of years ago. The Raps fired an incompetent GM, got an older/wise man as an interim GM and then hired someone who is actually good at his job.

So Cliff Fletcher is the Leaf's version of Wayne Emery. We will see if his mandate is to cut some payroll and get some young players+draft picks. It will be interesting to see if he does deal Mats Sundin, since Cliff was the one who brought Sundin here. They do need to hire a GM before the season end though, Cliff's draft record isn't too stellar; and I would like to see the New GM get more of a chance to make his mark here.

Only difference is that Peddie is still heavily involved in the hiring process of the next President and GM along with Gord Kirke. Fletcher will have input but is not directly involved in the hiring process. Atleast according to the way it was stated in the press conference.

And based on Peddie's prior record of hires, this still doesn't bode well going forward.

Peddie needed to be removed from all decision making in this process and that still hasn't happened.

With BC's hire, it was a lot of involvement from Tanenbaum. Same thing with Bowman and Peddie put a halt to that 'cause he knew he'd basically have no say. Bowman would tell him to buzz off and that's not what he wants.

[Morris_Shatford]

It's Peddie's vision about how to maximize profits and his incessant need to interject into his team's day-to-day operations that's been the stumbling block.

And winning a cup (IE playing four rounds in the playoffs) or even being successful with two or three rounds in the playoffs does not maximize profits?

If Peddie signed Kubina, McCabe, Tucker, and Blake to those Jerome James esk unmovable contracts then by all means can the guy.

The Leafs are in Cap hell because of JFJ, they have no assets because Quinn and then JFJ trade away picks and prospects and left the Leafs with a virtually asset free situation.

If the Leafs were not near the salary cap, or they were hiring questionable coaches and scouts at bargain basement prices then by all means, go after Peddie,

But what are these brilliant hockey related moves that the board and Peddie block?

Was JFJ on the cusp of acquiring Crosby and they quashed it?

Every deal, every signing, every pick put the leafs another step away from being a good hockey club and the blame for that is squarely on JFJ.

[Crowned]

It's Peddie's vision about how to maximize profits and his incessant need to interject into his team's day-to-day operations that's been the stumbling block.

And winning a cup (IE playing four rounds in the playoffs) or even being successful with two or three rounds in the playoffs does not maximize profits?

If Peddie signed Kubina, McCabe, Tucker, and Blake to those Jerome James esk unmovable contracts then by all means can the guy.

The Leafs are in Cap hell because of JFJ, they have no assets because Quinn and then JFJ trade away picks and prospects and left the Leafs with a virtually asset free situation.

If the Leafs were not near the salary cap, or they were hiring questionable coaches and scouts at bargain basement prices then by all means, go after Peddie,

But what are these brilliant hockey related moves that the board and Peddie block?

Was JFJ on the cusp of acquiring Crosby and they quashed it?

Every deal, every signing, every pick put the leafs another step away from being a good hockey club and the blame for that is squarely on JFJ.

Any team would gladly take any of those mentioned players, perhaps with the exception of Tucker.

[kelso]

It's Peddie's vision about how to maximize profits and his incessant need to interject into his team's day-to-day operations that's been the stumbling block.

And winning a cup (IE playing four rounds in the playoffs) or even being successful with two or three rounds in the playoffs does not maximize profits?

If Peddie signed Kubina, McCabe, Tucker, and Blake to those Jerome James esk unmovable contracts then by all means can the guy.

The Leafs are in Cap hell because of JFJ, they have no assets because Quinn and then JFJ trade away picks and prospects and left the Leafs with a virtually asset free situation.

If the Leafs were not near the salary cap, or they were hiring questionable coaches and scouts at bargain basement prices then by all means, go after Peddie,

But what are these brilliant hockey related moves that the board and Peddie block?

Was JFJ on the cusp of acquiring Crosby and they quashed it?

Every deal, every signing, every pick put the leafs another step away from being a good hockey club and the blame for that is squarely on JFJ.

I am by no means a Peddie apologist, but you hit the nail squarely on the head. bad trades. Bad signings. Bad contracts.

[sideshow]

This part of the conference had me laughing: (paraphrasing)

Q: Does the board have to authorize every move the team makes?

Peddie: The board does have final say on some of the deals. For example, they wanted to know the thought behind the Vince Carter trade. But the GM doesn't go to them for every move.

The VC trade probably wasn't the best example to use in that scenario, since it really didn't seem to work out well for the team.

I thought that there was a lot of talk about how the upper management of the team was run. It was good to see Peddie have to answer questions about that. His answer that the board are hockey fans as well, so they are concerned about the hockey product was kind of funny, because there are a ton of fans that I wouldn't want running the team. Just because they are fans doesn't make the decision making process better.

[Turnpikebandit]

It's Peddie's vision about how to maximize profits and his incessant need to interject into his team's day-to-day operations that's been the stumbling block.

And winning a cup (IE playing four rounds in the playoffs) or even being successful with two or three rounds in the playoffs does not maximize profits?

If Peddie signed Kubina, McCabe, Tucker, and Blake to those Jerome James esk unmovable contracts then by all means can the guy.

The Leafs are in Cap hell because of JFJ, they have no assets because Quinn and then JFJ trade away picks and prospects and left the Leafs with a virtually asset free situation.

If the Leafs were not near the salary cap, or they were hiring questionable coaches and scouts at bargain basement prices then by all means, go after Peddie,

But what are these brilliant hockey related moves that the board and Peddie block?

Was JFJ on the cusp of acquiring Crosby and they quashed it?

Every deal, every signing, every pick put the leafs another step away from being a good hockey club and the blame for that is squarely on JFJ.

So if Peddie's latest search yields another sap that's in over his head, will it be that guy's fault exclusively as well?

Don't get me wrong, JFJ wasn't given a lot of rope but he still managed to hang himself with it. It's his poor trades, draft picks (or lack thereof) and signings that have directly affected the team.

But it's not about limiting the guy they hired (which is all speculation anyway), it's about the guy who "found" him in the first place.

Peddie's spearheaded exhaustive searches for both MLSE sides and came out of it hiring a pair of neophytes in Babcock and JFJ that he could "supervise". Both failed miserably and the cockroach responsible for hiring them has thrown both under the bus and scuttled away to see another day.

There's more than enough blame to go around for this, but Peddie's a constant and total blight so long as he has any influence on hiring or day-to-day operations.

[Mr. Perfect]

I heard that Peddie and Tannenbaum took a backseat on hockey operations. They were showing it on Sportsnet.

[emfive]

John Ferguson Jr. now has a tarnished reputation, although he's just taking the blame for the incompetencies of others. But in the end, JFJ had an ample amount of opportunities to make that big move, but he never pulled the plug. Let's see what Cliff can do in the short-term, and see what (hopefully) Poile/Burke/Rutherford can do long-term

That is about the most incorrect comment made on this topic yet.

I have no problem with any of your choices though.

Hopefully Fletcher will be using the able staff JFJ put into service. They will do a better job that Fletcher's group with Duff and Armstrong on it. His boys spent more time in bars than arenas.

[emfive]

[quote="cosmostein"][/quote]

cosmo do some reading of the threads before you post.

JFJ went to the board 2 years ago to blow this thing up and they told him no. His stupidest move was to not quit on the spot. He should have done that and then gone public with it.

PS When talking about aged players you are forgetting to mention Fletcher in the long tradition of GM not interested in the draft.

That comment on Crosby .... just wow!

[MAS]

cliff press conference is on leaftv right now. Said fergusons will be on at 4 o'clock (or 4:30 not sure)

peddie says the new gm (after cliff) will build for the future but also short term. Which kind of makes no sense lol

It makes no sense when you put it that way, but he can't go out and say we're looking for the future, screw now. Why would fans buy tickets for now then? Even though this is Toronto... but still, you can't say it

[ansoncarter]

-= original quote snipped =-



It makes no sense when you put it that way, but he can't go out and say we're looking for the future, screw now. Why would fans buy tickets for now then? Even though this is Toronto... but still, you can't say it

the games will sellout regardless though right?

I think fans would be happy as hell to hear we're rebuilding.

the whole city would be more positive about the leafs imo, especially with the media getting behind it. Those guys have wanted a rebuild for ages. Fans would be reading/hearing about how bright a future we have, instead of how garbage we are and have no future

[Turnpikebandit]

So much for the MLSE board not meddling with JFJ.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/296586

John Ferguson and the board of directors of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment clashed over how the team should be rebuilt.

Ferguson, fired yesterday as the Leaf GM, told the Star's Dave Perkins last week that he presented a budget two years ago to the board that didn't include playoff revenue. The budget was rejected, and he was told to come back with a plan to make the playoffs.

"Our objective is always to be a contending team," board chairman Larry Tanenbaum said yesterday. "To be able to bring a Stanley Cup back here, it's hard to do that when you don't have playoffs."

When asked if that wasn't exactly the kind of meddling the board of directors insisted didn't happen Tanenbaum frowned, and suggested it wouldn't happen with interim GM Cliff Fletcher or the next permanent GM.

Granted, this is coming from the man on his way out the door, but there's certainly enough to suggest that autonomy wasn't exactly in full supply during JFJ's reign.

[whysoserious]

So much for the MLSE board not meddling with JFJ.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/296586

John Ferguson and the board of directors of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment clashed over how the team should be rebuilt.

Ferguson, fired yesterday as the Leaf GM, told the Star's Dave Perkins last week that he presented a budget two years ago to the board that didn't include playoff revenue. The budget was rejected, and he was told to come back with a plan to make the playoffs.

"Our objective is always to be a contending team," board chairman Larry Tanenbaum said yesterday. "To be able to bring a Stanley Cup back here, it's hard to do that when you don't have playoffs."

When asked if that wasn't exactly the kind of meddling the board of directors insisted didn't happen Tanenbaum frowned, and suggested it wouldn't happen with interim GM Cliff Fletcher or the next permanent GM.

Granted, this is coming from the man on his way out the door, but there's certainly enough to suggest that autonomy wasn't exactly in full supply during JFJ's reign.

The board has a different agenda, they want to make the playoffs and maximize revenue's. The Stanley Cup is secondary to that. I'm not saying it's wrong (as a fan, that is disappointing) and they can't be blamed when they've invested their own money.

But to truly contend and build a team, you will at various times have to take a step backwards to proceed forward.

Tanenbaum says they need to make the playoffs to win the Cup - No S*** Sherlock but at what point in the last 40 year's could you really look at the Leafs roster and say, that's a team that could contend. If ever, it was a very limited window and a lot of teams during the Gilmour era and the height of the Quinn era were overachieving teams. Good teams, but not true contenders.