why Lopez's poor rebounding is no biggie

[vincecarter4pres]

Man it's funny how I remember most posters by their avatars.

I saw your name on the last post column and said to myself, "That's the dude with the beer poster guy in his avi".

What really **** me up is when people change their avi's and I'm like, who's this dude?

[NyCeEvO]

Can someone tell Brook that you need two hands to grab a rebound?

[8 Mile Ilic]

TRADE DA BROOK yah?

[vincecarter4pres]

TRADE DA BROOK yah?

Touche.

[kasino]

i don't watch college sports, feel like I could wait til they get to the pros, but I noticed Brook and Robin were playing like Tim/Drob at Stanford
He is use to playing the pf position ad having an defensive center next to him

[vincecarter4pres]

i don't watch college sports, feel like I could wait til they get to the pros, but I noticed Brook and Robin were playing like Tim/Drob at Stanford
He is use to playing the pf position ad having an defensive center next to him

He's not a power forward, he's just too slow laterally.

What he needs is a guy like Derrick Favors next to him, good thing Avery's our coach.

[kasino]

i don't watch college sports, feel like I could wait til they get to the pros, but I noticed Brook and Robin were playing like Tim/Drob at Stanford
He is use to playing the pf position ad having an defensive center next to him

He's not a power forward, he's just too slow laterally.

What he needs is a guy like Derrick Favors next to him, good thing Avery's our coach.

Don't mind you disagreeing but Timmy isn't the quickest laterally
I do like Favors but I see him growing as an offensive player and we don't need 2 offensive bigs

[vincecarter4pres]

i don't watch college sports, feel like I could wait til they get to the pros, but I noticed Brook and Robin were playing like Tim/Drob at Stanford
He is use to playing the pf position ad having an defensive center next to him

He's not a power forward, he's just too slow laterally.

What he needs is a guy like Derrick Favors next to him, good thing Avery's our coach.

Don't mind you disagreeing but Timmy isn't the quickest laterally
I do like Favors but I see him growing as an offensive player and we don't need 2 offensive bigs

A young Tim Duncan was twice the athlete Brook was and for a good chunk of his early career he had a very quick David Robinson playing alongside him.

[kasino]

He's not a power forward, he's just too slow laterally.

What he needs is a guy like Derrick Favors next to him, good thing Avery's our coach.

Don't mind you disagreeing but Timmy isn't the quickest laterally
I do like Favors but I see him growing as an offensive player and we don't need 2 offensive bigs

A young Tim Duncan was twice the athlete Brook was and for a good chunk of his early career he had a very quick David Robinson playing alongside him.

sorry I have to disagree Brook isn't Hibbert he can move very well of course not like some pf but Timmy was all about core strength and conditioning.
David Robinson is extremly athletic and I guess the comparison could be made between he and Favors but DRob played defense and thats what were missing.

[vincecarter4pres]

sorry I have to disagree Brook isn't Hibbert he can move very well of course not like some pf but Timmy was all about core strength and conditioning.
David Robinson is extremly athletic and I guess the comparison could be made between he and Favors but DRob played defense and thats what were missing.

I never said Brook is some sort of stiff or anything like Hibbert, stop putting words in my mouth.

You simply don't remember or are too young to have seen a young Duncan through his first 6 or 7 seasons, he was a much better athlete then Brook all around.

There is absolutely no way in hell Brook can guard or be very efficient and effective on the offensive end against power forwards in this league on a nightly basis.

He's a prototypical old school center through and through, it's just that simple.

You sound like the guys that still cling to Mayo being a capable point guard.

Edit: On top of all this, although Duncan is called a power forward he has spent a ton of his time on the court playing center after D Rob retired anyway and has pretty much exclusively been a center for the past 3 seasons.

[Spider156]

Sorry guys. You guys probably have talked about this but I would really like to know what's going on with Lopez. He's only had one double-double in the whole season. I don't understand it one bit. He's built like a horse and is pretty athletic. He's my favorite center in the NBA right now. I would really like to know why his rebounding is so horrid this year. It can't be strength or height. The only reason that I can think of is he isn't good at positioning himself.

What's going on with him?

Also, I'm not here to propose a trade but I am curious as to what the asking price is for him in your opinions.

[Rollydog]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

I read this article. Lopez is getting a lot of flack for this but I'm thinking big wup.


I'll try to make this short.

The drop-off in Lopez's rebounding is on the defensive end. He's ok on the other side of the floor, down from last season, but probably average for a center in this league. Keep in mind we play at a slower pace as well. His DRBs are crazy low, 3.5, 2 rbs lower than last season, and he wasn't even really that good at getting them then either. But it doesn't SEEM to be affecting our numbers. We're out-rebounding our opponents. Impressive considering our FG% is 0.438 and theirs is 0.460. Equally impressive is the fact that we grab DRBs on 72% of opponents possessions while they only get ORBs 27% of the time. By my reckoning that puts us around tops in the league. The clippers, the best rebounding team in the league by differential, have identical stats.

So... unless I'm missing something this is not a big deal at all. It may cost Lopez some money if he signs an extension this summer (good chance he doesn't get the max) but if its hurting the team, the damage is negligible.

I'm getting my numbers from 82games.com

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011NJN.HTM

[Rollydog]

I don't really know for sure, i haven't been watching the games much, but its probably cause he's boxing out and not going after the ball. He also may have been weakened by his bout with mono this summer. Regardless, I don't think it's really having a negative effect on the team. I just made a post on this board explaining why.

[Rockice_8]

He's untouchable in my eyes. He's only 22 and I think sometimes people for get that. He'll never be the #1 option but he'd look good as a #2. You'd have to really blow me away to get him and from what it looks like your a Pistons fan and I wouldn't trade him for your whole roster.

We need a #1 scorer to take the pressure off him in the worst way and when we do I think we'll see other areas of his game improve. I just think he pushes himself so hard on offense so we aren't the 12 win team of last year and thats killing his shot blocking and rebounding.

[kasino]

sorry I have to disagree Brook isn't Hibbert he can move very well of course not like some pf but Timmy was all about core strength and conditioning.
David Robinson is extremly athletic and I guess the comparison could be made between he and Favors but DRob played defense and thats what were missing.

I never said Brook is some sort of stiff or anything like Hibbert, stop putting words in my mouth.

You simply don't remember or are too young to have seen a young Duncan through his first 6 or 7 seasons, he was a much better athlete then Brook all around.

There is absolutely no way in hell Brook can guard or be very efficient and effective on the offensive end against power forwards in this league on a nightly basis.

He's a prototypical old school center through and through, it's just that simple.

You sound like the guys that still cling to Mayo being a capable point guard.

Edit: On top of all this, although Duncan is called a power forward he has spent a ton of his time on the court playing center after D Rob retired anyway and has pretty much exclusively been a center for the past 3 seasons.

Lol dude why so aggressive?
I'm not trying to put any words in your mouth just was trying to say Brook could play pf because unlike some centers he is able to move pretty well.
Look you don't know me so lets not assume my age I been in plenty debates were age is used to build credibility. Now if you believe i don't know what I'm talking about call me on it I wouldn't mind but trying to call out my age is to simple for someone who has been around as long as you.
But no I don't think Timmy was that much more athletic than Brook. He never was about using any athletic prowess to beat his opponet but has great lower body stregnth and a wingspan people seem to forget about.
I disagree I think the advantage would always be in our favor to put brook against a pf they are typically smaller and help defenders not so much man defenders that could handle such a big body and on D he has the length to disrupt midrange shooting pf's and none would be able to post. Things get to hairy switch with Favors.
I agree he is the protoype center, something like Timmy and to dominate the way we would like putting him up against pf would be best
Lol I don't know why your trying to play me bruh but iight. Mayo needs to stay at the sg position his ball handling ability isn't were it needs to be to make that move. Maybe in some seasons tho we all grow you know. Oh but i was a Mayo baby Kobe guy.
To your edit he has always played like a center but has had a bunch of defensive forwards and smaller centers to play with. He has continued to go up against pf's.

[Preludepunk27]

For what it's worth, Brook has been tearing it up since the trade talk died down. A lot of players have stepped us, but Brook is a very big part of it on both sides of the floor.

::WARNING - POSSIBLY A CRAZY IDEA::
Now this wouldn't be a temporary change, but a certain gropuing I'd like to see a few minutes per game or if we're in a scoring slump. What I'm actually interested in doing if I were Avery is having Sasha and Morrow play on the court together a few times a game. Sasha can handle PG duties (did an average job in the triangle so I don't see why he couldn't get the ball up the court) with Morrow at the 2. The plays go strictly through Brook or Favors. Basically we run high screen sets freeing one of them up for the jumper. If that doesn't work, when the double team comes on Brook, he's got a 3pt shooter to kick it out to. The one thing I always say Brook needs to improve more than anything is his ability to pass out of double teams. I think plays specifically designed for this, along with having a shooter on both sides of the floor letting him set up on any block he wants, would be an interesting experiment.

Again, not saying this should be a starting 5 or anything. I just think it would be a fun set to see how they play. The reason I wouldn't do it for long stints is because our perimeter D would be nonexistent.

Either way, I haven't seen the Nets do this at all. Of course Morrow just came back, but I hope for them to get a little more aggressive with their rotations now that we're healthy. When Murphy rejoins the team, this could even be more lethal. Have Morrow/Sasha come off elbow screens given by the SF on the floor, have Murphy sitting in the corner opposite Brook's block. It gives Brook more room to operate and if Murphy's man committs to the help D, Murphy has easy buckets. The whole point is to help Brook develop and give him more options on the floor to limit the potential for the play to fail.

Maybe I'm crazy though.

[vincecarter4pres]

Lol dude why so aggressive?

Sorry man, was a little worked up over some non-basketball related stuff and I guess it translated through my post.

I'm not trying to put any words in your mouth just was trying to say Brook could play pf because unlike some centers he is able to move pretty well.

Still disagree.

Look you don't know me so lets not assume my age I been in plenty debates were age is used to build credibility. Now if you believe i don't know what I'm talking about call me on it I wouldn't mind but trying to call out my age is to simple for someone who has been around as long as you.

Wasn't trying to build credibility through age, I think that's a silly argument as well.
I was kind of asking a question/being serious. I assumed if you don't remember Duncan as a much better athlete then Brook you haven't seen Timmy in his youth and early prime.
You have to remember he played all 4 years of college and had a bad knee injury early in his career, so I'm talking like rookie year until maybe his 6xth or 7th season, 8th at max.

But no I don't think Timmy was that much more athletic than Brook. He never was about using any athletic prowess to beat his opponet but has great lower body stregnth and a wingspan people seem to forget about.

I'm absolutely not trying to claim Duncan as some freak athlete. He obviously wasn't, but he was laterally quicker then Brook, wasn't as robotic and was a little quicker end to end.

I'm also not trying to call Brook some plodding stiff.
He's actually deceptively athletic for a guy that's legitimately over 7 feet tall.
He isn't really laterally quick though, he is somwhat stiff and robotic as well.
For a center, he's quick, explosive and sort of fluent, but certainly not for a power forward.
As a power forward he is a stiff, a plodding big man.

I disagree I think the advantage would always be in our favor to put brook against a pf they are typically smaller and help defenders not so much man defenders that could handle such a big body and on D he has the length to disrupt midrange shooting pf's and none would be able to post.

Brook would be able to use his size against power forwards in the post on offense. But mainly against shorter guys that aren't super athletic. Super athletic guys are going to keep him in check off pump fakes and head fakes and such, with their quick and explosive second jumps.
There can also face guard much better, largely negating Brook's ability to put the ball on the floor and face up like he does against slower, land locked centers.
It will even effect his pick and pop game, they'll be able to fight through screens, recover and close out much better on him then opposing centers ever can.
Basically, he would have a distinct advantage all the way down on the deep low blocks when he has his man sealed(which he seems to have a problem doing to begin with), but it would kill all the other mismatch advantages his versatility creates versus other centers.

Lol I don't know why your trying to play me bruh but iight. Mayo needs to stay at the sg position his ball handling ability isn't were it needs to be to make that move. Maybe in some seasons tho we all grow you know. Oh but i was a Mayo baby Kobe guy.

Sorry again man, nothing personal, was just a little heated at the time and happened to be online right afterwords and you got the wrath of it, lol.

I didn't know you were a Mayo guy though, lol, it was just a random analogy. Oh the irony.

To your edit he has always played like a center but has had a bunch of defensive forwards and smaller centers to play with. He has continued to go up against pf's.

Dude, just ask the San An board. He has basically been a center for the last 3 seasons including this one. He might go against power forwards maybe half the time on the offensive, but he's not guarding them anymore and Pop has a system in place that allows them to mask their deficiencies through schemes, substitutions and switches.
Duncan is the man in the middle, the anchor. He basically plays center in a quasi-zone.

[kasino]

Dude, just ask the San An board. He has basically been a center for the last 3 seasons including this one. He might go against power forwards maybe half the time on the offensive, but he's not guarding them anymore and Pop has a system in place that allows them to mask their deficiencies through schemes, substitutions and switches.
Duncan is the man in the middle, the anchor. He basically plays center in a quasi-zone.

On defense I would gladly have Brook take on centers to play the quasi-zone you mentioned since most centers aren't offensive threats. It would be great for the team
I think mostly this year has been Duncan at center but Blair has been holding centers and is very good defensivly.
Duncan has had many defensive frontcourt mates(Mcdyess/Bonner/Oberto/Kurt Thomas/Elson etc) that has made his help defense so dominating(shame he never won a DPOY)


Now I know we aren't going to agree on Brooks ability to play pf and doubt the team ever moves in that direction but I personally don't see any current pf able to contain him while I can think of a few centers that'll make his nights hell.
Still if he is to stay at center I think its best for Favors to move towards the defensive side unlikely since pf's are usally offensive players.

[NyCeEvO]

Dude, just ask the San An board. He has basically been a center for the last 3 seasons including this one. He might go against power forwards maybe half the time on the offensive, but he's not guarding them anymore and Pop has a system in place that allows them to mask their deficiencies through schemes, substitutions and switches.
Duncan is the man in the middle, the anchor. He basically plays center in a quasi-zone.

On defense I would gladly have Brook take on centers to play the quasi-zone you mentioned since most centers aren't offensive threats. It would be great for the team
I think mostly this year has been Duncan at center but Blair has been holding centers and is very good defensivly.
Duncan has had many defensive frontcourt mates(Mcdyess/Bonner/Oberto/Kurt Thomas/Elson etc) that has made his help defense so dominating(shame he never won a DPOY)


Now I know we aren't going to agree on Brooks ability to play pf and doubt the team ever moves in that direction but I personally don't see any current pf able to contain him while I can think of a few centers that'll make his nights hell.
Still if he is to stay at center I think its best for Favors to move towards the defensive side unlikely since pf's are usally offensive players.

We had a discussion about this a few months ago where someone brought up Brook playing PF. The general consensus was that Brook cannot play PF for the Nets.

VC4P is right. Brook Lopez is moves too slow laterally to play PF.

Offensively, you may think that since he's taller than almost every PF, he can just post them up and take them to school. There are several problems with this assessment. Since Brook is slow, if he puts the ball down on the floor, he immediately loses his height leverage by bringing the ball down to the floor and with his slow lateral movements opposing PFs can get to where Brook is spinning to/moving to, thereby negating his post up moves around smaller PFs. Also, even if Brook were to get around the PF and into the paint, he'll be met by a center who will have the height to contest his shot. What makes it even worse is that Brook still does not know how to pass out of a double team. If he did then, teams would be reluctant to double and then he can work on his defender one on one. I know it seems like he would do really well at PF but in all reality, it's better for him to play against slower centers who he can actually outfake and get to the hole against.