Drose is an ELITE defender~~~Synergy

[coldfish]

Man defense is only one part of defense. This stat says he's the most limiting on-man PG defender in the league. Does not surprise me in the least. He's quite focused in on his man. I think he could have more of a team impact by playing more aggressive and more intelligent team defense.

You have said this several times and I strongly disagree. Rose is doing what he is supposed to as a team defender. A large number of his blocks are on proper rotations.

I think what you are looking for is him to help down onto people in the lane. Do you remember when Nocioni used to help off his man only to watch the ball get passed to his man and have him bury a wide open 3? In this defense, the strong side defenders are supposed to stay at home and that's the right thing to do.

[BrooklynBulls]

I know exactly what I'm looking for. You feel free to disagree. I've got my own stats that help me explain things. Look at Defensive +/- and to a greater extent, DRTG within the team and look at what Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo have as their metrics before you look at these man-on stats. It's no random error that Rose's DRTG is great, but one of the lowest on the team, while Rondo's and Paul's are near the top. They're disruptors. Rose disrupts his man. And the VAST majority, VAST, of his blocks are on his man, and not off a defensive rotation.

[coldfish]

I know exactly what I'm looking for. You feel free to disagree. I've got my own stats that help me explain things. Look at Defensive +/- and to a greater extent, DRTG within the team and look at what Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo have as their metrics before you look at these man-on stats. It's no random error that Rose's DRTG is great, but one of the lowest on the team, while Rondo's and Paul's are near the top. They're disruptors. Rose disrupts his man. And the VAST majority, VAST, of his blocks are on his man, and not off a defensive rotation.

What you are describing is bad defense. If you want derrick to play defense worse, then so be it.

DRTG is possibly the worst stat of all time.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL18.HTM#onoff

That's DPOY Dwight Howard. The best defender in the NBA, particularly in help situations. The DRTG score says that Orlando plays much better defense when he is on the bench. Do I need to say more?

[BrooklynBulls]

That's +/-. Which you'll have me admit is incredibly noisy in small samples. And too noisy in large samples still. But still somewhat useful when team situation is also put in as context. DRTG is a far better stat. Dwight's is at 95, best on his team.

[MC dhaos]

Man defense is only one part of defense. This stat says he's the most limiting on-man PG defender in the league. Does not surprise me in the least. He's quite focused in on his man. I think he could have more of a team impact by playing more aggressive and more intelligent team defense.

He's playing the best man defense for his position on the number one ranked defense in the league.


Cool with me.

[alucryts]

heres the rest of the team:
bulls ppp (rank/# of possessions defended):

rose: 0.74 (17th/517)
bogans: 0.92 (243rd/226)
deng: 0.8 (63rd/536)
boozer: 0.86 (140th/224)
noah: 0.94 (276th/168)

watson: 0.83 (93rd/207)
brewer: 0.78 (45th/274)
korver: 0.81 (75th/280)
taj: 0.8 (63rd/294)
asik: 0.83 (93rd/98)
big sexy: 0.66 (8th/154)

i think the biggest reason for noahs low value is we were still learning the defense while he was playing and when he went out is when we really started to play defense well.

[dice]

i gotta think the 82games.com data is more reliable than this synergy stuff. i had the same feeling last time someone posted synergy stats

i've got rose at #7 amongst PGs using my own formula. and that's buoyed by the top defense in the league behind him. last year i had him at #21. before this year he was pretty universally regarded as a sub-par defender. i'd be interested in the synergy stats for last year

[dice]

heres the rest of the team:
bulls ppp (rank/# of possessions defended):

rose: 0.74 (17th/517)
bogans: 0.92 (243rd/226)
deng: 0.8 (63rd/536)
boozer: 0.86 (140th/224)
noah: 0.94 (276th/168)

watson: 0.83 (93rd/207)
brewer: 0.78 (45th/274)
korver: 0.81 (75th/280)
taj: 0.8 (63rd/294)
asik: 0.83 (93rd/98)
big sexy: 0.66 (8th/154)

most of those #s look pretty realistic. countdown to the noah fanclub coming out of the woodwork to grouse: 6, 5, 4...

[alucryts]

i gotta think the 82games.com data is more reliable than this synergy stuff. i had the same feeling last time someone posted synergy stats

i've got rose at #7 amongst PGs using my own formula. and that's buoyed by the top defense in the league behind him. last year i had him at #21. before this year he was pretty universally regarded as a sub-par defender. i'd be interested in the synergy stats for last year

i would take synergy over everything honestly.

[alucryts]

heres the rest of the team:
bulls ppp (rank/# of possessions defended):

rose: 0.74 (17th/517)
bogans: 0.92 (243rd/226)
deng: 0.8 (63rd/536)
boozer: 0.86 (140th/224)
noah: 0.94 (276th/168)

watson: 0.83 (93rd/207)
brewer: 0.78 (45th/274)
korver: 0.81 (75th/280)
taj: 0.8 (63rd/294)
asik: 0.83 (93rd/98)
big sexy: 0.66 (8th/154)

most of those #s look pretty realistic. countdown to the noah fanclub coming out of the woodwork to grouse: 6, 5, 4...

im willing to say noahs numbers are due to the team getting used to the system. assuming that, bogans is the only weak link

[coldfish]

That's +/-. Which you'll have me admit is incredibly noisy in small samples. And too noisy in large samples still. But still somewhat useful when team situation is also put in as context. DRTG is a far better stat. Dwight's is at 95, best on his team.

OK, maybe I'm a fool here. What *is* defensive rating? I thought it was the points given up per 100 possessions while you are on the court.

[alucryts]

That's +/-. Which you'll have me admit is incredibly noisy in small samples. And too noisy in large samples still. But still somewhat useful when team situation is also put in as context. DRTG is a far better stat. Dwight's is at 95, best on his team.

OK, maybe I'm a fool here. What *is* defensive rating? I thought it was the points given up per 100 possessions while you are on the court.

assigns points given up per possession based on box scores/play by play basically. its influenced by things completely unrelated to the player a lot of times.

on example is if the team scores a fg against you, everyone on the defense gets +0.4 on their drtg, or one fifth the "blame" for the points or something along those lines.

i believe fouls are the biggest factor in them

[logical_art]

Defensively studly. Offense mehly.

Do we believe this?

[MC dhaos]

Rose is a stud on both ends for sure. Don't need any stats to support that.

[pipfan]

I don't like these stats. I still, at 43, play ball at a relatively high level. I have always been a very good, sometimes lock down defender. It is mostly about effort and anticipation-plus knowing your comp.

We all know Thibs prepares his guys. Our team D is consistently outstanding, and that's with Boozer being awful.

Rose's effort has been incredible this year on D. That is with him carrying the load on offense. Yes, he misses rotations sometimes, but everyone does.

He does not play the passing lanes well, but I'm fine with that. I actually rarely go for steals-I keep my man in front and make them hit tough shots. Rose is getting really good at that.

For him to go from a terrible defender two years ago to an average last year to an elite one this year is awesome. I was actually going to post something about him being our lockdown guy at the end of games, over Deng, Brewer or Watson. I watch every game and I know his D is great now.

[dice]

heres the rest of the team:
bulls ppp (rank/# of possessions defended):

rose: 0.74 (17th/517)
bogans: 0.92 (243rd/226)
deng: 0.8 (63rd/536)
boozer: 0.86 (140th/224)
noah: 0.94 (276th/168)

watson: 0.83 (93rd/207)
brewer: 0.78 (45th/274)
korver: 0.81 (75th/280)
taj: 0.8 (63rd/294)
asik: 0.83 (93rd/98)
big sexy: 0.66 (8th/154)

most of those #s look pretty realistic. countdown to the noah fanclub coming out of the woodwork to grouse: 6, 5, 4...

im willing to say noahs numbers are due to the team getting used to the system. assuming that, bogans is the only weak link

bogans a weak link? shut your mouth!

can't explain away noah's #s though. there were a lot of games where opposing centers were highly efficient against him. but i'll assume it's an aberration, as the numbers for the previous 2 seasons are much, much better

[alucryts]

Defensively studly. Offense mehly.

Do we believe this?

think in terms of efficiency. his stats this year on efficiency have been mehly. those dont take into consideration volume

[Susan]

That's +/-. Which you'll have me admit is incredibly noisy in small samples. And too noisy in large samples still. But still somewhat useful when team situation is also put in as context. DRTG is a far better stat. Dwight's is at 95, best on his team.

OK, maybe I'm a fool here. What *is* defensive rating? I thought it was the points given up per 100 possessions while you are on the court.

It's an estimate of that based on how many minutes played, rebound rate, steal %, block % and whatnot. Good defensive team with good metrics=good rating. Bad defensive team with good metrics=decent rating. Bad+Bad=Bad.

[BrooklynBulls]

It's particularly decent within the team, imo.

[CjayC]

I don't want to pile on to the legacy(The Unicorn isn't a legend anymore folks), but I guess the stats don't lie.

Of course people from GB will immediately reject this information since like 9234959345929r23515 threads a day are about Rose on the GB. That guy get talked up more on other boards than he does on our own damn board!