Does Vernon deserve to be in the level of excellence?

[Modern_epic]

People dismissing this out of hand should probably take a look at George Bell's career again. He's not as good a player as you remember. While Bell had considerable more team success, Wells already has a slightly higher career WAR than Bell, and spent 3 more years on the Jays.

Though if you want to argue Bell doesn't belong, I would be sympathetic to that angle too.

[Hoopstarr]

I considered the Bell comparison but his .811 OPS was good for 119 OPS+ while Vernon's is 108. Bell also won an MVP and most importantly he was part of two pennant runs. I agree Bell is the weakest link though.

[Modern_epic]

I tend to use wRC+, where the difference is 111-108 for Bell. I'm kind of shocked at the difference between the two metrics for Bell's career, but it turns out he was remarkable bad at drawing walks (which is what OPS runs into problems valuing).

Add to that the fact Bell was considered a poor defender his whole career at the right end of the D spectrum, and I would call Wells the better player.. which isn't really even what I expected going into this. My main case was going to be Wells's 3 extra years here.

(Also, awful as it is to say, Bell's MVP was entirely undeserved. Trammel should have taken it in a landslide, with the same OPS from short)

[Parthenon]

Delgado before Wells

[J-Roc]

Can't discount Bell winning an MVP. That's huge. I'd even consider Pat Hentgen for that reason.

[Evermore]

I tend to use wRC+, where the difference is 111-108 for Bell. I'm kind of shocked at the difference between the two metrics for Bell's career, but it turns out he was remarkable bad at drawing walks (which is what OPS runs into problems valuing).

Add to that the fact Bell was considered a poor defender his whole career at the right end of the D spectrum, and I would call Wells the better player.. which isn't really even what I expected going into this. My main case was going to be Wells's 3 extra years here.

(Also, awful as it is to say, Bell's MVP was entirely undeserved. Trammel should have taken it in a landslide, with the same OPS from short)

Bell only had only 331 walks in 6586 plate appearances for his career!

Bonds had 232 walks in 617 PA in '04 alone...

[Modern_epic]

Can't discount Bell winning an MVP. That's huge. I'd even consider Pat Hentgen for that reason.

Hentgen is an interesting comparison... and probably cements me in thinking Bell shouldn't be there either. He actually deserved his Cy, and has a similar career WAR to the other two... but doesn't strike me as belonging on the Level of Excellence.

Bell only had only 331 walks in 6586 plate appearances for his career!

Bonds had 232 walks in 617 PA in '04 alone...

Ya, it pretty much blew my mind how little he walked.

[j127]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but this was a thread on Wells from April 8, 2010:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1001386&start=60

Seems like many at the time thought Wells was untradeable.