Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[TGW]

I didn't say Young was a better PLAYER. I said he was a better FIT on this team. You basically made my point when you said this:

Curry wouldn't be an ideal fit in Flip's offense b/c its so PG centric and would basically turn Curry into a spot up shooter or have him mainly come off screens. Pretty much what it regulated Gilbert to when he was playing SG.

In a vacuum, would I take Curry over Young? Absolutely. But considering what we'd have to give up to get him and what Curry's role would be on this particular version of the Wiz, I'd rather stick with Young and build up other positions on the roster. We have bigger problems than Nick Young IMO.

I agree with this. Curry is a good player and is better than Nick. Nick fits in better with what we have here already and next to Wall. Curry also is a putrid defender, whether he's guarding 1's or 2's. Nick is at least a capable defender.

It wouldn't be worth the assets to trade for Curry, unless you're trading Wall for Curry+assets. That would make more sense than trying to put Curry and Wall together.

[Ruzious]

Steph Curry is a remarkable player... for fantasy basketball teams. He'd be an all-star on the empty stat league. Note that if you are playing fantasy basketball - play him AND the opposing PG. GS won 26 games with him last year and they'll win maybe 35 this year. 3 years ago, they were 48-34 with Baron instead of Curry, Harrington instead of David Lee, and Jackson instead of Dorell Wright. Ellis and Biedrins started on both teams. Jackson no longer wanted to play with GS when they got Curry, and Ellis hasn't made it a secret that his game's been hurt by playing with Curry. Curry is still a skinny little guy who can't guard good players, and he's still a shooting guard playing the point. I give him credit for doing a good job in transitioning to the point, but he's still unnatural there. As far as pining for him "Oohh, if we had only picked him... oh the pain" BS. He'd be an outstanding 3rd guard in the Jamal Crawford mode, but wake me up when he starts for a winning team. Speaking of which, I'd rather have Jamal Crawford - all things being equal.

[dlts20]

Curry "may" be a better player then NY even though Im not sold on that since I think he puts up empty stats and has a circus style game but most would consider him clearly better. However, Wall is our PG so this is about the SG spot and there is no way in hell I think he's a better SG then NY in any way imangiable. NY is way bigger, a way better defender, way more athletic, and his stroke is just as sweet which is Curry's best asset. Add that to the fact that NY is now doing things in more catagories like boards & assist, I think he's clearly a better "SG" then Curry on pretty much any team in the league

[gesa2]

Should we be interested in Granger? He's 27, and not an elite defender. Blatche, Young and Yi for Granger McRoberts and Rush works in the trade checker. We get the best player in the deal, and if you don't believe that Blatche will ever really get it (I'm in that crowd), then maybe it's worth it.

[no D in Hibachi]

Indy probably considers Young=Rush
Yi is basically a less agressive version of McRoberts, both expire
So the bare bones of that trade is really Granger for Blatche, is it really worth discussion at that point?

[DallasShalDune]

I'd package Blatche, a first rounder, Thorton, and Booker/K. Sera for Granger and bad contracts. He may not be a 1st tier superstar, but he is a deserving all-star. He'd be a really good player to put alongside Wall, and even if Shard has to move back to PF, we have three players who will feed off of Wall passes with NY, Granger, and NY. Also, there's McGee.

Now would Indy do it? Probably not.

[eitanr]

Washington could be in the market for an interesting play at that GSW Protected pick NJ has.

Something along the lines of Thornton to NJ....Yi to NOH...W. Green to NJ...and Outlaw and that GSW pick to Washington.

I still feel Outlaw is a solid backup wing who can provide some offense off the pine. He has a very bad deal, but check out the protection of that GSW pick: Top 7 protected in 2012-2013...Top 6 protected in 2014....after which it becomes 2 2nd rounders if not used by then.

I like my odds on that being somewhere between a 8-13 pick in 2012.

[fishercob]

Washington could be in the market for an interesting play at that GSW Protected pick NJ has.

Something along the lines of Thornton to NJ....Yi to NOH...W. Green to NJ...and Outlaw and that GSW pick to Washington.

I still feel Outlaw is a solid backup wing who can provide some offense off the pine. He has a very bad deal, but check out the protection of that GSW pick: Top 7 protected in 2012-2013...Top 6 protected in 2014....after which it becomes 2 2nd rounders if not used by then.

I like my odds on that being somewhere between a 8-13 pick in 2012.

I wouldn't touch that deal. Here are your #7 overall picks in the 90's and 00's

Greg Monroe, Steph Curry, E. Gordon, Corey Brewer, Foye, Villanueva, Deng, Hinrich, Nene, Eddie Griffin, Rip Hamilton, Jason Williams, Tim Thomas, Lorenzen Wright, Damon Stoudamire, Lamond Murray, Bobby Hurley, Walt Williams, Luc Longley, Lionel Simmons.

It looks as if the #7 pick has a better shot at having a tragedy befall them then they do making an all-star game. I have no interest in those odds when the price is taking on an albatross of a contract. Make no mistake -- Outlaw, at his price and production level, is an albatross.

[eitanr]

How many of those 7th picks were a high valued asset for at least half a decade or they were in the league: The only ones on your list that weren't (or won't be in Monroe's case) are likely Brewer, Foye, Charlie V, Griffin, Murray, and maybe the Wizard Williams.

Here's my point take a clear bust above, someone like Tim Thomas...his value was extremely high his firsy years in the league. Charlie V was able to be dealt for an at the time great young PG in TJ Ford...Lorenzo Wright, another bust, was dealt several years after his rookie deal for 3 future 1st rd picks...

So odds are that pick is at the very least an extremely valuable asset that can always potentially be packaged into something greater.

The idea here is to get valuable assets and keep stock piling...See Boston as a prime example of this.

[fishercob]

You're describing a quasi ponzi scheme. "It's not a very valuable asset, but some a-hole will THINK it's valuable!"

I'm not taking on "Dont Call Me Bo" Outlaw -- and thereby limiting tons of future options -- for a pick that history says is not very valuable, with the hope that I could package said pick for something actually valuable.

It's ludicrous.

DC is a desired free agent destination. Capital of the free world. Chocolate City. Home of wes_tiny_abe. Et cetera.

John Wall + McGee + big cap space = bright future. Period.

[tontoz]

Washington could be in the market for an interesting play at that GSW Protected pick NJ has.

Something along the lines of Thornton to NJ....Yi to NOH...W. Green to NJ...and Outlaw and that GSW pick to Washington.

I still feel Outlaw is a solid backup wing who can provide some offense off the pine. He has a very bad deal, but check out the protection of that GSW pick: Top 7 protected in 2012-2013...Top 6 protected in 2014....after which it becomes 2 2nd rounders if not used by then.

I like my odds on that being somewhere between a 8-13 pick in 2012.

I wouldn't touch that deal. Here are your #7 overall picks in the 90's and 00's

Greg Monroe, Steph Curry, E. Gordon, Corey Brewer, Foye, Villanueva, Deng, Hinrich, Nene, Eddie Griffin, Rip Hamilton, Jason Williams, Tim Thomas, Lorenzen Wright, Damon Stoudamire, Lamond Murray, Bobby Hurley, Walt Williams, Luc Longley, Lionel Simmons.

It looks as if the #7 pick has a better shot at having a tragedy befall them then they do making an all-star game. I have no interest in those odds when the price is taking on an albatross of a contract. Make no mistake -- Outlaw, at his price and production level, is an albatross.

Your stance on the number 7 pick seems a little odd considering that you are willing to trade Young for a mid-1st.

[LyricalRico]

I'd package Blatche, a first rounder, Thorton, and Booker/K. Sera for Granger and bad contracts. He may not be a 1st tier superstar, but he is a deserving all-star. He'd be a really good player to put alongside Wall, and even if Shard has to move back to PF, we have three players who will feed off of Wall passes with NY, Granger, and NY. Also, there's McGee.

Now would Indy do it? Probably not.

Well, the only longterm contract the Pacers have other than Granger is Dahntay Jones. Everybody else had a deal that expires this summer or next summer, so I'm not sure how attractive expirings would really be. Also, if they are going to move Granger for a PF, there are more attractive targets like Scola, Love, Nene (if there is a Melo trade) and maybe others.

Still, what we could benefit from is their apparent hatred for all their point guards. Hinrich would seem to fit the mold of the player Bird seems to covet - pale, gritty, high bball IQ. Adding a Hinrich for Posey+Jones swap to a Blatche+pick+expirings for Granger trade could get their attention.

McGee/Seraphin
Lewis/Booker
Granger/Posey
Young/Jones
Wall/Shakur

The starting frontcourt is weak defensively but the bench would push a lot of people around. If tanking is still the plan, I don't think this hurts that plan. Where it does hurt is that we now have to go about getting our PF of the future without the benefit of cap space or a lottery pick. Is Granger worth that? I don't know.

[fishercob]

Washington could be in the market for an interesting play at that GSW Protected pick NJ has.

Something along the lines of Thornton to NJ....Yi to NOH...W. Green to NJ...and Outlaw and that GSW pick to Washington.

I still feel Outlaw is a solid backup wing who can provide some offense off the pine. He has a very bad deal, but check out the protection of that GSW pick: Top 7 protected in 2012-2013...Top 6 protected in 2014....after which it becomes 2 2nd rounders if not used by then.

I like my odds on that being somewhere between a 8-13 pick in 2012.

I wouldn't touch that deal. Here are your #7 overall picks in the 90's and 00's

Greg Monroe, Steph Curry, E. Gordon, Corey Brewer, Foye, Villanueva, Deng, Hinrich, Nene, Eddie Griffin, Rip Hamilton, Jason Williams, Tim Thomas, Lorenzen Wright, Damon Stoudamire, Lamond Murray, Bobby Hurley, Walt Williams, Luc Longley, Lionel Simmons.

It looks as if the #7 pick has a better shot at having a tragedy befall them then they do making an all-star game. I have no interest in those odds when the price is taking on an albatross of a contract. Make no mistake -- Outlaw, at his price and production level, is an albatross.

Your stance on the number 7 pick seems a little odd considering that you are willing to trade Young for a mid-1st.

It shouldn't seem odd. It's just indicative of my opinions of Young and Travis Outlaw . The fact that Young is in a contract year plays a role too.

[fugop]

Greg Monroe is still going to be the best big from the 2010 draft.

[tontoz]

It shouldn't seem odd. It's just indicative of my opinions of Young and Travis Outlaw . The fact that Young is in a contract year plays a role too.

I am not talking about Travis Outlaw I am talking about the draft.

You mention the odds of landing an All-Star player a player at 7. The odds are far worse in the mid-late first round. the odds of finding someone as productive as Nick in the mid-1st round who also plays D and fits the team make the odds of landing an All-Star at 7 seem great by comparison.

[fishercob]

If Young is so awesome, why do the Wizards suck so bad?

You say "as productive as Young." Well, I don't consider Young to be all that productive. It's taken him until the final year of his rookie contract to earn consistent minutes and he's still severely limited as a player. I'd rather get a late pick for him then just let him walk away for free (but I'd sooner let him walk then signing him for big dollars/years). Guys like Nick Young -- guys who don't think the game exceedingly well and/or are extremely specialized players just don't win a lot in the NBA.

IMHO.

[tontoz]

If Young is so awesome, why do the Wizards suck so bad?

You say "as productive as Young." Well, I don't consider Young to be all that productive. It's taken him until the final year of his rookie contract to earn consistent minutes and he's still severely limited as a player. I'd rather get a late pick for him then just let him walk away for free (but I'd sooner let him walk then signing him for big dollars/years). Guys like Nick Young -- guys who don't think the game exceedingly well and/or are extremely specialized players just don't win a lot in the NBA.

IMHO.

Why do the Wizards suck? How many reasons do you want? They turn it over too much, don't get defensive rebounds or play good defense. They lack shooters. None of this can be laid at Youngs feet.

You don't think Nicks is productive?How do you define productive? Who has been the most productive player in the team this year?

Nick can shoot 3s, create his own shot off the dribble and play defense. Your definition of a limited player must be a lot different from mine. What exactly are these "limitations" that are so detrimental?

[gesa2]

Indy probably considers Young=Rush
Yi is basically a less agressive version of McRoberts, both expire
So the bare bones of that trade is really Granger for Blatche, is it really worth discussion at that point?

Not that I think this is a great trade, but Young=Rush? really? They are both 25 yr old shooting guards, both about 6'6". But rush hasn't had a PER above TEN until this year, and it's 10.97 now. Young has a better PER every year, and it's 16 this year.

[sashae]

A few more teams that have expressed interest in Sacramento's in-demand Omri Casspi have emerged since ESPN.com's report earlier this week that Chicago and New York are trying to persuade the Kings to part with the second-year swingman. One source close to the situation said Toronto and Washington have joined the Casspi chase, while Sam Amick of AOL FanHouse reports that Denver and the Los Angeles Clippers have inquired as well. As stated from the start, though, Sacramento will insist that any team take on the contract of Beno Udrih or Francisco Garcia in any Casspi deal and could well ask for even more than that. The Kings' desire to find a new point guard to pair with Tyreke Evans is no secret among rival teams.

--ESPN

[nate33]

If Young is so awesome, why do the Wizards suck so bad?

Young is literally the best player on the Wizards team right now. That's why they suck so bad. It's certainly not Young's fault. Young is pretty good, just not good enough to carry a team.

If Young was the third or fourth best player on the team, you wouldn't be using that argument because the team would be winning ball games.