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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#161 » by Yeezus_ » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:37 am

PRESTIGE wrote:Last year there were no international players selected in the lottery and only 1 in the entire first round. This year, a year in which we are tanking and will end up with a good pick, there are 4 international players slated to be picked in the first 10 picks.

For those that are tired of the 'Euro' movement, this draft will be like a landmine. BC could trigger one quite easily, causing a huge explosion on this forum. :lol: I expect the RealGM servers to be down for a while if that happens.

Mods will have their work cut out for them. New threads all over the place.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#162 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:46 am

anyone else concerned over the glut of 6'8 - 6'9 PF's in the top 7?

It's like a **** minefield in my opinion.

Obviously you do what you go to do and Blake G is only 6'8-6'9 but man ..... if there's 1 thing I can do without right now it's an undersized PF.

Honestly I'd rather pick 7th than 4th and just take Kemba. But of course priority is nabbing Irving. :oops:
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#163 » by Rapsfan07 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:08 am

D-Wins-RingsIMO wrote:anyone else concerned over the glut of 6'8 - 6'9 PF's in the top 7?

It's like a **** minefield in my opinion.

Obviously you do what you go to do and Blake G is only 6'8-6'9 but man ..... if there's 1 thing I can do without right now it's an undersized PF.

Honestly I'd rather pick 7th than 4th and just take Kemba. But of course priority is nabbing Irving. :oops:


The motive right now is to pick as high as possible and I agree with that Pf thing. However, I think Sulliger will have the easiest time translating his game into the NBA. Him and Irving. I think the rest of the draftees are a bit raw (some more than others) and it will take some time for them to find their groove. I SWEAR...If BC takes another Euro out of this draft, I'm done with the Raptors!!! I DO NOT WANT KANTER OR JONAS!!! We should be drafting either Kyrie Irving, Terrance Jones or Jared Sullinger. If push comes to shove then we take Barnes (who will take the longest to translate his game if it happens at all). I DO NOT WANT KEMBA EITHER! He looks like an undersized Ben Gordon (who is already undersized). Besides, we have Bayless who I think is better AND has a higher celing then him so that would be a BIG waste of a pick for me.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#164 » by DatHomieYouHaTe » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:57 am

To me Terrence Jones is our guy. He can handle the ball extremely well for a man his size. He has nba 3 point range on his jumper. He's what we need and outside of kyrie he's ready to play in the nba and make an impact. I hope we don't get number one and this guy lands in our pocket.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#165 » by SkywalkerAC » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:07 am

that derrick williams 360 is a lot like VC's first nba 360, from Oak, not as nice obviously but he spun counter clockwise and all.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#166 » by fredericklove » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:03 am

There's tons of draft prospect watch in today's games!!!!!!!!!

Jared sullinger - Ohio State vs. Northwestern@6pm

Josh Selby - Kansas State vs. Kansas@7pm

TJ+Knight - Georgia vs. Kentucky@4pm

The Canadians - Missouri vs. Texas@9pm

HB - UNC vs. North Carolina State@2pm

PJ - Baylor vs. Colorado@1:45
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#167 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:31 pm

^^^ are those games on tv???

I wanted to bring this up...

Talking about Fredette - A Western Conference scout disagrees

“I’m telling you, he’s better than Stephen Curry.

“Curry was always taking difficult, off-balance shots because he couldn’t create space like Fredette can for himself. Plus, I don’t think his team is any good. He’s doing this himself. He’s having one of the most remarkable seasons any college player’s had in the last 10 or 15 years.

its scouts like that get GMs fired and set teams bak like 5yrs...
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#168 » by sunny » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:51 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:^^^ are those games on tv???

I wanted to bring this up...

Talking about Fredette - A Western Conference scout disagrees

“I’m telling you, he’s better than Stephen Curry.

“Curry was always taking difficult, off-balance shots because he couldn’t create space like Fredette can for himself. Plus, I don’t think his team is any good. He’s doing this himself. He’s having one of the most remarkable seasons any college player’s had in the last 10 or 15 years.

its scouts like that get GMs fired and set teams bak like 5yrs...


why?
fredette is better than curry was in college. The only thing is that BYU is a fantastic team so that part of it is wrong.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#169 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:19 pm

sunny wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:^^^ are those games on tv???

I wanted to bring this up...

Talking about Fredette - A Western Conference scout disagrees

“I’m telling you, he’s better than Stephen Curry.

“Curry was always taking difficult, off-balance shots because he couldn’t create space like Fredette can for himself. Plus, I don’t think his team is any good. He’s doing this himself. He’s having one of the most remarkable seasons any college player’s had in the last 10 or 15 years.

its scouts like that get GMs fired and set teams bak like 5yrs...


why?
fredette is better than curry was in college. The only thing is that BYU is a fantastic team so that part of it is wrong.


thats up for debate too. Davidson is prolly a smaller school and curry did big things there. He had 40pt games too.. Curry can be a lead gaurd in the nba, do u project that for jimmer? Would u trade curry ri now for a pick & take jimmer?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#170 » by Kaizen » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:31 pm

Georgetown versus Villanova is on TSN2 at 12:00.
Minnesota at Purdue is on CBS at 1:00.
Auburn at South Carolina is on PeachtreeTV at 1:30.
NC State at North Carolina is on TSN2 at 2:00.
UCLA at Arizona State is on Sportsnet1 at 3:00.
Tennessee at Mississippi is on PeachtreeTV at 4:00.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#171 » by dagger » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:51 pm

fredericklove wrote:
PRESTIGE wrote:
If we end up drafting 6th (I'm just saying if), and that once Irving, the jones brother, barnes and sullinger are off on the radar...and we are left with no choice but to choose one of those soft euros, then yes, I can totally see a judgment day happening on realgm.


At the rate Barnes is falling, he will not only be available, he might be available at 15. He has to work big time to just to put an end to his free fall.

As for the best pick at #4, if that were our lot, there is a reason DraftX is holding rock solid on Valanciunas at #3 and it's time we focus a little more on why.

The kid is 18, 6'11 in bare feet, with a 9-4 wingspan. But he's not the Bargnani type of skilled big man with no aggression, or Ajinca type whose size is under-utilized - he's more assertive/aggressive in a more North American kind of way. First off, as an 18 year old on a Euroleague team, he doesn't get minutes like the veterans so when he gets into a game, he attacked the offensive boards to make an impression. He's got a strong face the basket game, and a lot of what he does can be described as high energy grappling in the paint. He's a good defensive rebounder, a very promising shot blocker and intimidator. He very much needs to develop a back to the basket game, but we're talking about an 18 year old - there's time.

Oh, and he's a 90 percent free throw shooter, so he will not get hacked, at least not deliberately because on the offensive boards in particular, it's like giving up a high percentage three point play.

He's passionate about the NBA, but might have to wait until the 2012-13 season to come over. On the face of it, thats a negative, but could be great for us in two ways - first, if there is a lockout, he keeps playing at a high level so of his development isn't lost. Secondly, if there isn't a lockout, it helps us suck enough to get another high pick - so for 2012-13 we'd have two very high picks arrive at the same time, which would be a compelling thing to watch and would clearly mark the start of the way back up.

I track all his game. He gets real minutes, usually in the first half. In his last game on Wednesday, which was an upset win for Rytas in the Euroleague Round of 16, he had eight points (4-6) and seven boards (3 offensive) in 16 minutes. His numbers are larger in the Lithuanian League games, played on weekends.

I'm not picking draft favorites yet, but this kid has as much right to be in the draft conversation as any other 18 or 19 year old on the board and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand because of his skin color or nationality. He does play a position of need, comes out of a country with a history of developing good big men, is playing in higher competition than a lot of NCAA prospects, and seems to have the kind of mental makeup that one would want in a high pick. And think any big who practices 200 free throws a day is dedicated to being the best possible pro.

Just watch him, don't commit to him, don't exclude him, just don't ignore him.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#172 » by Rapsobsessed7 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:54 pm

dagger wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
PRESTIGE wrote:
If we end up drafting 6th (I'm just saying if), and that once Irving, the jones brother, barnes and sullinger are off on the radar...and we are left with no choice but to choose one of those soft euros, then yes, I can totally see a judgment day happening on realgm.


At the rate Barnes is falling, he will not only be available, he might be available at 15. He has to work big time to just to put an end to his free fall.

As for the best pick at #4, if that were our lot, there is a reason DraftX is holding rock solid on Valanciunas at #3 and it's time we focus a little more on why.

The kid is 18, 6'11 in bare feet, with a 9-4 wingspan. But he's not the Bargnani type of skilled big man with no aggression, or Ajinca type whose size is under-utilized - he's more assertive/aggressive in a more North American kind of way. First off, as an 18 year old on a Euroleague team, he doesn't get minutes like the veterans so when he gets into a game, he attacked the offensive boards to make an impression. He's got a strong face the basket game, and a lot of what he does can be described as high energy grappling in the paint. He's a good defensive rebounder, a very promising shot blocker and intimidator. He very much needs to develop a back to the basket game, but we're talking about an 18 year old - there's time.

Oh, and he's a 90 percent free throw shooter, so he will not get hacked, at least not deliberately because on the offensive boards in particular, it's like giving up a high percentage three point play.

He's passionate about the NBA, but might have to wait until the 2012-13 season to come over. On the face of it, thats a negative, but could be great for us in two ways - first, if there is a lockout, he keeps playing at a high level so of his development isn't lost. Secondly, if there isn't a lockout, it helps us suck enough to get another high pick - so for 2012-13 we'd have two very high picks arrive at the same time, which would be a compelling thing to watch and would clearly mark the start of the way back up.

I track all his game. He gets real minutes, usually in the first half. In his last game on Wednesday, which was an upset win for Rytas in the Euroleague Round of 16, he had eight points (4-6) and seven boards (3 offensive) in 16 minutes. His numbers are larger in the Lithuanian League games, played on weekends.

I'm not picking draft favorites yet, but this kid has as much right to be in the draft conversation as any other 18 or 19 year old on the board and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand because of his skin color or nationality. He does play a position of need, comes out of a country with a history of developing good big men, is playing in higher competition than a lot of NCAA prospects, and seems to have the kind of mental makeup that one would want in a high pick. And think any big who practices 200 free throws a day is dedicated to being the best possible pro.

Just watch him, don't commit to him, don't exclude him, just don't ignore him.


you really want this guy eh Dagger. Id take Barnes still at #4 if Irving/T.Jones/P.Jones are all gone but i feel good about us getting one of those 3. I still think barnes can end up being the most talented player in the draft, i think the current system hes in doesnt fit his play style and he will translate better in the NBA
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#173 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:01 pm

Yea i'd take barnes at 4 if those 3 are off the board...
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#174 » by Double Helix » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:16 pm

There's no way Kanter's going to measure out at 6'11. Look at this video. Seeems like a nice kid and I like his toughness and width but he's going to be undersized as a C in the NBA and I think that's going to hurt him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvko4VUYuKQ

Near the end of the clip he's standing shoulder to shoulder with Terrence Jones, who's listed at 6'8, and the side-by-side comparison between those two doesn't have me to excited about his chances of becoming an impact C at the next level with below average athleticism. The 6'9 predictions look accurate to me. He was apparently 6'9 when he was 15 and everybody was hoping he'd grow bigger. It doesn't look like he has, so I think he's still ranked based on the upside/expectations people had of him last year.

They talk about him going up againt Nazr Mohammed, an NBA vet, who's listed at 6'10 and looking solid in the post against him, so I'm sure the kid's footwork and competitiveness are advanced for his age but a 6'9 C with limited athleticism, no playing time against his peer group this year in a competitive situation for comparisons sake, AND a questionable knee? That doesn't sound too tempting to me if I'm picking in the top 5 this year. Even if the players we liked were taken, I'd still rather take one of the more skilled PFs and trade him to another team for something else rather than take on Kanter.

I think he'll drop past the top 5 and closer to the 8-13 range come draft day.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#175 » by fredericklove » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:19 pm

If Barnes becomes a real deal I think he could be the Paul Pierce of Raptors...sound delusional? Hell yeah!

Look out, Barnes go for the game winning 3 against the Boston in game 7!

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Btw, doesn't look like baylor's game on stream, damn I wanna watch PJ.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#176 » by dagger » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:26 pm

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:you really want this guy eh Dagger. Id take Barnes still at #4 if Irving/T.Jones/P.Jones are all gone but i feel good about us getting one of those 3. I still think barnes can end up being the most talented player in the draft, i think the current system hes in doesnt fit his play style and he will translate better in the NBA


Listen, don't put words in my mouth. I wouldn't take Barnes until he shows me he's more than Gerald Green 2.0. Right now, he's not worthy of a top 10 pick and I'm not going to pick somebody like that on sheer faith that he has the skills and stomach of greatness. There are guys like Barnes in every draft whom people assume he must be better than he looks because he was a great high schooler, but I need to see the Royal Jelly in the kid. There's still lots of time to turn around my opinion.

As for Valanciunas, you haven't seen him play and you're a closed mind. I'm open minded, and my reason for talking him up a bit is to provide a little info on why this kid, unlike Vesely and Montlejunas, is sticking in the top 10 and if anything, moving up. He's #3 on DX and #6 on Chad Ford's Top 100 prospects.

I'd say three quarters of this board is into upside, and would take a high upside player over a ready-to-contribute type. Well, if you are into high upside, or if you believe the Raptors need a more classical C capable of the intimidation/rim protection/rebounding/shotblocking associated with the position you at least have to consider Valanciunas even if at the end of the day you would prefer somebody else. I, for one, try to watch a bit of film on him - it's not easy to come by - and I read closely what is written about him by the draft sites that have seen him in person and talked to him one on one (like Jonathan Givony).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#177 » by Double Helix » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:44 pm

As far as early C rankings go, I think Draft Express made a smart move jumping on the Jonas Valanciunas bandwagon over Kanter. Aside from physicality, I think Jonas Valanciunas game will translate better right from the onset because he's coordinated, long, and seems to possess good focus and a high energy level for a big. A lot of his vids online showcase the fact that he seems to have active legs and a willingness to not give up on the ball in traffic. I like to see that from a big man and I also like that he tries to keep the ball high and use his height to his advantage.

He's obviously young and raw so I think their ranking of him in the top 3 is also a little ambitious at this time. Like Kanter, he'll stay in the lottery because teams always love bigs but I think he'll slide a little outside of the top 5 as teams will see him as more of a project the same way Andris Biedrins was seen as a coordinated, hard working, agile and athletic big man with upside. I think Biedrins is more athletic but I think teams will bring Valanciunas in and see that early on in his career he might be able to fill a similar hustle role and make solid contributions in the game without much being run for him. The thing that's going to be tempting for teams is that this guy can actually shoot free throws and doesn't look clumsy with the ball in his hands in the post so I think teams will be looking at him and thinking... Biedrins energy level and nose for the ball with the potential to develop a bit of a scoring touch like Kristic. That's a tempting prospect in a draft like this if you're picking past the top 6.

I like him more than Kanter and I think he'll be taken ahead of him probably between picks 6-10.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#178 » by dagger » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:52 pm

Double Helix wrote:
He's obviously young and raw so I think their ranking of him in the top 3 is also a little ambitious at this time. Like Kanter, he'll stay in the lottery because teams always love bigs but I think he'll slide a little outside of the top 5 as teams will see him as more of a project the same way Andris Biedrins was seen as a coordinated, hard working, agile and athletic big man with upside.


Givony describes him as Biedrins with a higher ceiling. For one, Valanciunas' biggest strengths include being a superb finisher on the pick and roll. As of Dec 26 when Givony wrote his last report on him, Valanciunas had either scored or drawn a foul on 43 of 50 pick and roll attempts as meaured by Synergy Sports.

In the NBA, that's money, and couple that with an 87% free throw record, and it's pretty easy to see a dangerous offensive weapon. Valanciunas sets a good screen, rolls hard to the basket, and finishes really well. Biedrins isn't that level of finisher, never was. In this kind of draft, I expect Valanciunas to hang around the 3-7 range, no lower. If a bad teams bets there will be a lockout, he's an excellent investment because he'll keep on playing at a high level next year while most NCAA picks are playing in the D-League or playgrounds.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#179 » by Kingsforlife » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:57 pm

maybe he could be a rich man's Pau Gasol 8-)
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#180 » by Double Helix » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:03 pm

dagger wrote:
Double Helix wrote:
He's obviously young and raw so I think their ranking of him in the top 3 is also a little ambitious at this time. Like Kanter, he'll stay in the lottery because teams always love bigs but I think he'll slide a little outside of the top 5 as teams will see him as more of a project the same way Andris Biedrins was seen as a coordinated, hard working, agile and athletic big man with upside.


Givony describes him as Biedrins with a higher ceiling. For one, Valanciunas' biggest strengths include being a superb finisher on the pick and roll. As of Dec 26 when Givony wrote his last report on him, Valanciunas had either scored or drawn a foul on 43 of 50 pick and roll attempts as meaured by Synergy Sports.

In the NBA, that's money, and couple that with an 87% free throw record, and it's pretty easy to see a dangerous offensive weapon. Valanciunas sets a good screen, rolls hard to the basket, and finishes really well. Biedrins isn't that level of finisher, never was. In this kind of draft, I expect Valanciunas to hang around the 3-7 range, no lower. If a bad teams bets there will be a lockout, he's an excellent investment because he'll keep on playing at a high level next year while most NCAA picks are playing in the D-League or playgrounds.


I was actually still editing my post to include his free throw shooting and the fact that his footwork seem to hint that he could be a mix of a hustle guy with a nose for the ball like Biedrins with a guy who could knock down free throws and score more than him in his twenties (Kristic perhaps?) It's hard to think of some other modern day traditional international Cs with a bit more scoring touch than Biedrins right now and I won't go as far as to suggest that his offensive game has a TON of upside (he's no Lopez/Kaman for example)

I hadn't read the Biedrins comparison though. That's kind of funny that Draftexpress has that too. I thought I was going out on a limb there and that I'd be attacked for how they're nowhere near similar and that Biedrins was more bounce-y (He probably is but I still see some similarities)
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