Poll: Grade Ernie Grunfeld

[LyricalRico]

Ernie showing the patience of a true Zen master. I remain in awe.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

The Wizards haven't been fully healthy in 7 years. In fact, are there any teams right now that are fully healthy? If the Wizards wait until "all the pieces finally come together healthy" we'll be waiting a looooong time.

[hands11]

The Wizards haven't been fully healthy in 7 years. In fact, are there any teams right now that are fully healthy? If the Wizards wait until "all the pieces finally come together healthy" we'll be waiting a looooong time.

We dont need everyone healthy at once. Actually, few would be upset if Yi went down again. If we had Wall and Gil we could survive loosing Kirk. If we had AT and Howard we could afford loosing Gee or Martin. If we had Dray and McGee we could afford not having Booker or Seraphin.

But we do need our #1 pick and Gil healthy at the same time.
We do need our starting PF and starting C at the same time.
We also need AT and Howard since they are our only starting quality SFs

On such a young team, if does matter who are the injured players.

Also, we know coming into the season that the start would be tough with several rookies and Dray injured over the summer, Howard coming off surgery also, and Gil coming off all that he had over the past and his newer preseason injury. Even the rookie Seraphin was coming off an injury. Oh, an Yi was dinged in international ball. Not that that matters. What we didn't know would happen was Wall being out so much, AT getting injured so early and McGee getting hammered and dinged up. Oh, and Nick for a few games and Dray with a new hip thing.

[JonathanJoseph]

The Wizards haven't been fully healthy in 7 years. In fact, are there any teams right now that are fully healthy? If the Wizards wait until "all the pieces finally come together healthy" we'll be waiting a looooong time.

I don't think anyone needs "fully healthy", but this is just ridiculous. Now Blatche is sitting out practice with another knee issue. For all of Grunfeld's tenure the injury situation has been consistently riduculous (que the medical staff thread again). Maybe there really is a curse of Les Boulez.

The Deshawn Stevenson issue continues to illustrate that. Grunfeld caught a lot of flack for re-signing DS and after his back injury the guy was a complete non-contributor but now DS is playing good basketball in Dallas. He's starting and contributing significantly for the hottest team in the NBA.

Is it Grunfeld's fault that DS was a non-contributor for 1.5 years in DC? Not sure, but it seems relevant to this thread.

[closg00]

This bump is for Rico, shockingly, he has not contributed to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1086969

[LyricalRico]

This bump is for Rico, shockingly, he has not contributed to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1086969

I was going to post there, but I want to wait and see what happens with Blatche. If he's still on the roster after the deadline, Ernie will lose major points with me.

[JonathanJoseph]

This bump is for Rico, shockingly, he has not contributed to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1086969

I was going to post there, but I want to wait and see what happens with Blatche. If he's still on the roster after the deadline, Ernie will lose major points with me.

Well, that alone suggests Grunfeld has failed. Arenas and Blatche were Grunfeld's two biggest bets during his Wizards tenure and he will have traded both at their lowest value.

I give him a pass for injuries and luck and other things, but Arenas and Blatche were his cornerstones.

[DaRealHibachi]

This bump is for Rico, shockingly, he has not contributed to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1086969

I was going to post there, but I want to wait and see what happens with Blatche. If he's still on the roster after the deadline, Ernie will lose major points with me.

In other news, a cure for cancer only a few weeks away...

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

If all Ernie did last year was unload Jamison... Then trade Gil for Lewis...

We would look something like this (indulge me for a second and overlook Caron's current injury).

Wall
Young
Butler/Thorton
Blatche/Lewis
Haywood/mcgee

plus a late #1 and a high #2 and some filler.

Of course this assumes Haywood was extended and we still got lucky in the ping pong draw.

Two questions:
1. Would you change that roster(including cap implications) for our present one?
2. Is that a playoff team?

[hands11]

The Wizards haven't been fully healthy in 7 years. In fact, are there any teams right now that are fully healthy? If the Wizards wait until "all the pieces finally come together healthy" we'll be waiting a looooong time.

I don't think anyone needs "fully healthy", but this is just ridiculous. Now Blatche is sitting out practice with another knee issue. For all of Grunfeld's tenure the injury situation has been consistently riduculous (que the medical staff thread again). Maybe there really is a curse of Les Boulez.

The Deshawn Stevenson issue continues to illustrate that. Grunfeld caught a lot of flack for re-signing DS and after his back injury the guy was a complete non-contributor but now DS is playing good basketball in Dallas. He's starting and contributing significantly for the hottest team in the NBA.

Is it Grunfeld's fault that DS was a non-contributor for 1.5 years in DC? Not sure, but it seems relevant to this thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/g ... ayerId=808

Starting ? They just started to give him starter minutes and for now, he doesnt look took to be doing as well with his 26 mins as he was with his 16 minutes.

Starting for Dallas should be used loosely.

Dallas has nine players who could play 30 minutes on any given night and seven players who you could say play and equally important roll with five of them starting the game.

Sasha regularly plays 16 minutes as a starter. DS was doing the same.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310119006

Interesting how they beat LA. Nice to have two players coming off the bench who can score 22 a night. Even better when they can do it on the same night.

In Dallas you have two starters they are Kidd and Dirk and I guess you can say Chandler, then you have a team of players.

They are 7th in Pts allowed per game. Guess they are actually playing D in Dallas. Seeing as they are 23rd in PPG and 23rd in Rebounds per game, that much be some D.

You play your defensive players to start, then take it from there.

Who gets the minutes varies

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310125006

[hands11]

This bump is for Rico, shockingly, he has not contributed to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1086969

I was going to post there, but I want to wait and see what happens with Blatche. If he's still on the roster after the deadline, Ernie will lose major points with me.

Well, that alone suggests Grunfeld has failed. Arenas and Blatche were Grunfeld's two biggest bets during his Wizards tenure and he will have traded both at their lowest value.

I give him a pass for injuries and luck and other things, but Arenas and Blatche were his cornerstones.

Oh come on.

Gil was free and paid well until Abe wanted to make him his son, and Dray was a second round pick.

[hands11]

If all Ernie did last year was unload Jamison... Then trade Gil for Lewis...

We would look something like this (indulge me for a second and overlook Caron's current injury).

Wall
Young
Butler/Thorton
Blatche/Lewis
Haywood/mcgee

plus a late #1 and a high #2 and some filler.

Of course this assumes Haywood was extended and we still got lucky in the ping pong draw.

Two questions:
1. Would you change that roster(including cap implications) for our present one?
2. Is that a playoff team?

If we keep Haywood and CB we would not have Wall.

That said, I thought letting Haywood go was a mistake but it was all part of dumping players and salaries.

[theboomking]

If all Ernie did last year was unload Jamison... Then trade Gil for Lewis...

We would look something like this (indulge me for a second and overlook Caron's current injury).

Wall
Young
Butler/Thorton
Blatche/Lewis
Haywood/mcgee

plus a late #1 and a high #2 and some filler.

Of course this assumes Haywood was extended and we still got lucky in the ping pong draw.

Two questions:
1. Would you change that roster(including cap implications) for our present one?
2. Is that a playoff team?

If we keep Haywood and CB we would not have Wall.

That said, I thought letting Haywood go was a mistake but it was all part of dumping players and salaries.

Haywood is 31, and a big contract for a guy like that just doesn't make sense when you are rebuilding. The contract would wind up holding us back by the time we were any good.

Secondarily, if you are going to rebuild a team, you don't want to play a bunch of veterans to bring you from a high lotto pick to a low one. You want to give a lot of minutes to your young players that actually have a chance to be around once the team is better. That way you are developing those younger guys and getting a better draft pick.

I wish we'd fire EG and hire Kevin Pritchard, who was fired by Portland after the last draft. Pritchard built a very good team that is still competing in the West despite having lost it's two best players, Roy and Oden.

[nate33]

If all Ernie did last year was unload Jamison... Then trade Gil for Lewis...

We would look something like this (indulge me for a second and overlook Caron's current injury).

Wall
Young
Butler/Thorton
Blatche/Lewis
Haywood/mcgee

plus a late #1 and a high #2 and some filler.

Of course this assumes Haywood was extended and we still got lucky in the ping pong draw.

Two questions:
1. Would you change that roster(including cap implications) for our present one?
2. Is that a playoff team?

To answer your first question, I would prefer our current roster to that one. Would you willingly trade Yi, Josh Howard and Kirk Hinrich for Butler and Haywood (with their contracts)? I wouldn't.

To answer your second question, yes that would be a playoff team, but not a very good one.

But the bottom line is that that's a false premise. If we didn't make the Haywood trade, we would probably have picked 4th or 5th or 6th. My guess is that we would haved stayed away from Cousins because of his attitude so we would have ended up with Wesley Johnson.

[Dat2U]

My biggest gripe about last season's trades was that we got nothing in terms of prospects out of any of those deals other than the last pick of the 1st round. I had no problem trading Haywood b/c it was obvious that his impending FA status meant he didn't fit with a rebuilding team but IMO he had much more value than just helping us dump one year of DeShawn's deal. At minimum Portland was offering a player & a 1st round pick. Butler for Howard was negligible. Neither player has stayed on the court or showed an ability to for most of their career. EG's best move was dumping Jamison, only problem was it was about 2-3 years too late (cough, Gasol, cough).

[LyricalRico]

At minimum Portland was offering a player & a 1st round pick.

Many people assumed this but I don't recall this ever being confirmed. They didn't give up a pick to get Camby, so why would we have expected them to do so with Haywood?

[nate33]

My biggest gripe about last season's trades was that we got nothing in terms of prospects out of any of those deals other than the last pick of the 1st round. I had no problem trading Haywood b/c it was obvious that his impending FA status meant he didn't fit with a rebuilding team but IMO he had much more value than just helping us dump one year of DeShawn's deal. At minimum Portland was offering a player & a 1st round pick. Butler for Howard was negligible. Neither player has stayed on the court or showed an ability to for most of their career. EG's best move was dumping Jamison, only problem was it was about 2-3 years too late (cough, Gasol, cough).

Butler for Howard wan't negligible. Howard is paid 1/3rd as much as Butler this year. Basically, that's the deal that allowed us to buy Hinrich/Seraphin.

Also, that Jamison for Pau Gasol deal was not on the table for us. We didn't have a Marc Gasol to give back to them as incentive.

[Dat2U]

Nate, Marc Gasol was a recent 2nd round pick and no one at the time of the deal considered him as anything more than an afterthought. We had one of the biggest expiring contracts in the league in Jamison and young players on our roster as well (Blatche/Young). We could have made a competitive offer.

Lyrical, I don't feel like searching for the article again (because you conveniently forgot I posted it before when you disputed this same fact a few months ago) but it was a legitimate rumor. The Blazers/Wizards were having discussions at the time. Haywood was putting up very solid numbers and considering Camby's age Wood was their 1st option. When Wood went to Dallas, Portland turned their attention to Camby.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Two questions:
1. Would you change that roster(including cap implications) for our present one?
2. Is that a playoff team?

If we keep Haywood and CB we would not have Wall.

Most probably true, but of course it is all conjecture given that draft order is determined by a draw.

What many, more strategic, franchises will do is -- during an obvious tank year -- will sit their best players with small -- or trumped up -- injuries, thereby giving young players a chance to play, improving their trade value perhaps, and improving one's draft position.

We, on the other hand, all but wasted the first year and a half of our current 2 1/2 year tank run.

[fishercob]

Nate, Marc Gasol was a recent 2nd round pick and no one at the time of the deal considered him as anything more than an afterthought. We had one of the biggest expiring contracts in the league in Jamison and young players on our roster as well (Blatche/Young). We could have made a competitive offer.

I agree with Dat on this. If Ernie had wanted to, he could have put together a competitive package to get Gasol.

I agree with nate on the benefits if clearing cap room giving us Seraphin. I would like to think that Ernie could have navigated the Dallas trade better and gotten a little more. But there were still benefits.