is 10 yrs 300 mill fair for pujols?

[Pharmcat]

that is the demand some are saying by albert, i think starks at espn , but i was watching the segment on around the horn

so would you give him 10 yrs 300 mill?

At the face of it, I think it sounds ridicolous, but here is the way I look at it: Cards got a nice value paying him 7 yrs 100 mill in current contract, so next contract makes up some for that...7 for 100 + 10 for 300 = 17 for 400 = 23.5 mill per year, which seems fair for the best hitter

thoughts?

[Starkiller]

Way too much money. IMO, no player is worth that much. As great of a hitter as he is, that's only one side of the game. His 'defense' at 1B is not going to do much to change games at all, like a stellar defensive 3B, SS, or CF will. I just am in the opinion that there are guys up there who can put up similar numbers to his and cost a hell of a lot less. At that type of money, you'd think he's hitting .400 and 60 HR's a year, but he's not. Is he one of the best hitters in baseball? Yes. But not by such a margin that he needs that much more money than the rest.

[craig01]

that is the demand some are saying by albert, i think starks at espn , but i was watching the segment on around the horn

so would you give him 10 yrs 300 mill?

At the face of it, I think it sounds ridicolous, but here is the way I look at it: Cards got a nice value paying him 7 yrs 100 mill in current contract, so next contract makes up some for that...7 for 100 + 10 for 300 = 17 for 400 = 23.5 mill per year, which seems fair for the best hitter

thoughts?

No. Not with my checkbook.

But someone else might.....

[greenbeans]

No way anyone takes that Teixera contract off the Yankees' hands, ....right?

[Rafael122]

I think his annual salary should be $30 million a year, but no way should he get a 10 year contract. This is why I don't understand some of these contracts, do they really need to be 8-9 years in length of the annual salary is really all that matters? MLB contracts are guaranteed. Would Albert accept something like a 6 yr/$180-190 million deal? It's $30 mil per year, but it's a short contract.

[CentralQB5]

that is the demand some are saying by albert, i think starks at espn , but i was watching the segment on around the horn

so would you give him 10 yrs 300 mill?

At the face of it, I think it sounds ridicolous, but here is the way I look at it: Cards got a nice value paying him 7 yrs 100 mill in current contract, so next contract makes up some for that...7 for 100 + 10 for 300 = 17 for 400 = 23.5 mill per year, which seems fair for the best hitter

thoughts?

No. Not with my checkbook.

But someone else might.....

The only teams that would most likley be able to afford that contract would be.......no one, boston has to much invested in other players and the same thing with the yanks and those are the only teams i can think of who would even think about being able to afford it

[Wade2k6]

I think his annual salary should be $30 million a year, but no way should he get a 10 year contract. This is why I don't understand some of these contracts, do they really need to be 8-9 years in length of the annual salary is really all that matters? MLB contracts are guaranteed. Would Albert accept something like a 6 yr/$180-190 million deal? It's $30 mil per year, but it's a short contract.

Because most players are greedy and want to milk every cent out of an organization that they can. But hypothetically if that did happen and Pujols became a FA again 7 years down the line (after a 6 year contract), it's highly unlikely that he's going to get a 4 year contract for 25+ million a year to make up the difference. It just doesn't make sense for him when he can get a guaranteed 8-9 year contract for 25+ million.

[Pharmcat]

that is the demand some are saying by albert, i think starks at espn , but i was watching the segment on around the horn

so would you give him 10 yrs 300 mill?

At the face of it, I think it sounds ridicolous, but here is the way I look at it: Cards got a nice value paying him 7 yrs 100 mill in current contract, so next contract makes up some for that...7 for 100 + 10 for 300 = 17 for 400 = 23.5 mill per year, which seems fair for the best hitter

thoughts?

No. Not with my checkbook.

But someone else might.....

The only teams that would most likley be able to afford that contract would be.......no one, boston has to much invested in other players and the same thing with the yanks and those are the only teams i can think of who would even think about being able to afford it

it will never happen

but just for kicks and giggles...yanks have been offered 50 mill per yr for naming rights to the stadium, plenty of dough right there to go after a player with said huge contract

[bigboy1234]

In the original post may be some of the worst business sense I've ever read.

Anyways, anything more than a 5/150 or 8/210 would seem to be an overpay. No chance in hell he gets 300M.

[Dr Positivity]

He's not worth the money, but Cards are better off with an overpaid Pujols than not having him IMO.

I think Pujols will always have a high OPS even when he's old like Barry, so I suspect if that gets down to 3 or 4 years and the Cards don't want him anymore, someone else will like the Yanks

[gswhoops]

No, 10yrs $300M is overpaying. But he might end up getting that much if someone starts a bidding war. We've seen time and time again how much guys can get overpaid in the right situation (Jayson Werth).

IMO a fairer deal would be something like 8yrs $250M.

[KnickelandDime]

I actually do think he would be worth the money. The Cardinals with Pujols are a playoff staple franchise who consistently contend and do pretty well drawing crowds in. Without him, they will suck pretty badly and their gate receipts will fall immensely. His play alone is worth at least 25 mill a year, even factoring in the back half of that contract.

[Rafael122]

Nice to see the Cardinals pulling the "we're a mid-market ballclub" card. That didn't stop them from signing Holliday to a $140 million deal last year.

PAY THE MAN! At the end of his career, Pujols might be one of the top 3 baseball players in history.

[bigboy1234]

Pujols will never be a top 3 baseball player in history. What a weird thing to say.

Pujols is no doubt worth actually 35M now. The thing is you would have to be out of your mind to think he is worth even close to that as a 41 year old. If he got a 10 year extension and assuming he is worth 35M for the 2011 season and assuming he gets 7% worse each season, that total 10 years is still only 240M and that ends in paying a 41 year old 17M a year. A huge risk. Hell Pujols already has injury and some even think age concerns.

For reference the ZiPS projection system has him worth 170M over the next 7 seasons. If anyone has a PECOTA subscription feel free to post what that thinks of his future.

He would have to have Mays' ability to be great at the age he did to be worth a 300M contract and the odds of that are very slim. Edgar and Bonds also had great age 32+ careers, but both have steroid accusations. Most players don't stay great that long.

I also haven't heard that the Cardinals are playing the "mid-market card" from what Olney says Pujols is asking for "Mt. Everest."

But maybe I would be all for paying him 300M backloaded and just trade him to the Angels in a few years.

[trwi7]

PAY THE MAN!

Yes, spend crazy amounts of money that the player won't be worth after a few years to appease a fan base, even if the contract cripples your team in the future! You're so smart!

[Rafael122]

PAY THE MAN!

Yes, spend crazy amounts of money that the player won't be worth after a few years to appease a fan base, even if the contract cripples your team in the future! You're so smart!

They did it with Holliday, why can't they do it with Pujols?

[Rafael122]

Pujols will never be a top 3 baseball player in history. What a weird thing to say.

Pujols is no doubt worth actually 35M now. The thing is you would have to be out of your mind to think he is worth even close to that as a 41 year old. If he got a 10 year extension and assuming he is worth 35M for the 2011 season and assuming he gets 7% worse each season, that total 10 years is still only 240M and that ends in paying a 41 year old 17M a year. A huge risk. Hell Pujols already has injury and some even think age concerns.

For reference the ZiPS projection system has him worth 170M over the next 7 seasons. If anyone has a PECOTA subscription feel free to post what that thinks of his future.

He would have to have Mays' ability to be great at the age he did to be worth a 300M contract and the odds of that are very slim. Edgar and Bonds also had great age 32+ careers, but both have steroid accusations. Most players don't stay great that long.

I also haven't heard that the Cardinals are playing the "mid-market card" from what Olney says Pujols is asking for "Mt. Everest."

But maybe I would be all for paying him 300M backloaded and just trade him to the Angels in a few years.

$300 million is insane, but A-Rod's contract is the benchmark and Pujols is the better player. Make your own conclusions. You can't tell me Pujols doesn't deserve an A-Rod contract.

[Dirty Water]

Pujols will never be a top 3 baseball player in history. What a weird thing to say.

I don't understand how that's such a weird thing to say.

He has without a doubt the best numbers to start a career ever. I'm not going to sit here and spit them out at you because you probably already know. He will definitely be top 10, if not top 5. Top 3 isn't an outrageous thing to say.

[bigboy1234]

They did it with Holliday, why can't they do it with Pujols?

How is giving Holliday 120M from ages 30-36 the same as giving Pujols 300M from ages 32-41? Holliday is worth his deal, hell assuming 4.5M/win and Holliday gets 7% worse each season Holliday is easily worth his contract and even more. The same can't be said if you did the same thing for Pujols and the 300M mark.

$300 million is insane, but A-Rod's contract is the benchmark and Pujols is the better player. Make your own conclusions. You can't tell me Pujols doesn't deserve an A-Rod contract.

Maybe the benchmark for stupidity. There are plenty of players better than Zito and Wells, they shouldn't be getting better deals than them.

He has without a doubt the best numbers to start a career ever. I'm not going to sit here and spit them out at you because you probably already know. He will definitely be top 10, if not top 5. Top 3 isn't an outrageous thing to say.

His peak simply isn't good enough, when you are talking all-time. He has no chance of catching Ruth. He'll never be better than prime Mantle, Hornsby, Williams, Cobb or steroid Bonds. Unlikely he matches Mays' longevity of absolute greatness.

Data up until age 30 (Pujols so far):

Code: Select all

 PA     OPS+   RB*   WAR   
7259   185   678   105.3   Cobb
7201   176   686   97.8   Mantle
6617   178   595   90.6   Hornsby
4937   211   664   84.8   Ruth
6782   172   620   83.8   Pujols
7216   157   512   83.2   Aaron
5957   158   410   76.3   Mays
6157   181   669   76.2   Gehrig
5348   195   639   75.6   Williams (missed 3 years due to war at this time)
6038   158   412   74.5   Bonds

Those don't look like without a doubt the best numbers to start a career to me.

RB* is Runs Batting which is the number of hitting runs better than average at that time.

[Dirty Water]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you said. I think this is a healthy argument, and a fun one.

1. A lot of people consider Mays as the best all around player of all-time. He is last on that list in RB.

2. We can look at the stats all we want but none of us on this board watched Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth play. Comparing eras in baseball is so difficult. Many rules have stayed the same but many things about the league have changed obviously. I like to look at each eras player to others of that time period, rather than matching stats from 1920 to 2010.

3. I'm not saying Pujols is indisputable that he is top 3. But I think he very well could be. I think a quarter century has to go by after a player retired before we really see his true place amongst the all-time greats. HOF 5 years is fine, but comparing such legends, much longer is needed. Then again there is no master list, this is all opinion anyway.