Congrats to Pacers Fans

return2glory · Post #1 » by **return2glory** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:12 am

This should be a happy day for you guys. Growing up a die hard Celtics fan, Larry Bird was my favorite player. Until this day Bird is my favorite player of all-time. But as soon as Larry Bird hired Jim O'Brien or Jim O'Moron as I call him, I knew Bird had made a huge mistake and would hurt your franchise.

O'Brien was one of my least favorite Celtic coaches. It was a toss up between him and Chris Ford. O'Brien was the main reason why the Celtics traded Joe Johnson after only about two months as a rookie of the Celtics. O'Brien was a big fan of Eric Williams and started Williams over JJ. When Williams got hurt and missed a few weeks, JJ started for him and scored 20 points or more in 5 or 6 straight games. But soon as Williams returned from his injury, Joe Johnson went back to the bench and was traded shortly after than because Jim O'Moron couldn't find time for JJ.

Forward a few years. Danny Ainge took over the Celtics and made a huge mistake by extended O'Briens contract. But Ainge soon wised up and corrected his mistake by firing O'Brien shortly after he extended his contract. I'm really suprised it took Larry Bird this long to correct his mistake, a mistake he should not have made in the first place.

I was so happy when the Celtics parted ways with Jim O'Brien and I'm happy now for you Pacer Fans. You deserve a much better coach than what you had over the past fews years. I wish you guys after able to get a really good coach. Congrats again with the departure of O'Brien.

pacers33 · Post #2 » by **pacers33** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:23 am

I'm just overjoyed to shed the the atrocious label of "headless chicken offense". However, I'm not completely elated until I see how Vogel does. He looks sort of young.

Post #3 » by **Grang33r** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:42 am

pacers33 wrote:I'm just overjoyed to shed the the atrocious label of "headless chicken offense". However, I'm not completely elated until I see how Vogel does. He looks sort of young.

He surpasses Erik Spoelstra as youngest coach in the league.

Clangus · Post #4 » by **Clangus** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:05 am

Congrats guys, JOB had to go. Lets see what the new guys has (and hope for a real coach soon)

Celtic Esquire · Post #5 » by **Celtic Esquire** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:03 pm

return2glory wrote:
Forward a few years. Danny Ainge took over the Celtics and made a huge mistake by extended O'Briens contract. But Ainge soon wised up and corrected his mistake by firing O'Brien shortly after he extended his contract. I'm really suprised it took Larry Bird this long to correct his mistake, a mistake he should not have made in the first place.

Just to clarify, O'Brien was not fired by Ainge. Instead, O'Brien quit on the team by resigning after Ainge traded two of his binkies in Eric Williams and Tony Battie and was told to stop playing Walter McCarty so many minutes.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... ics_coach/

JarrettJackSG · Post #6 » by **JarrettJackSG** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:35 pm

return2glory wrote: JJ started for him and scored 20 points or more in 5 or 6 straight games. But soon as Williams returned from his injury, Joe Johnson went back to the bench and was traded shortly after than because Jim O'Moron couldn't find time for JJ.

Bullcrap.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2002/

[quote=Carl_Desberg]
Joe Johnson was the prize for the Celtics in this draft. He started off nicely for the C’s in the 2001-02 season, but as the team surprised people by playing good basketball, the team got away from the youth movement and focused on winning basketball games.

Just 48 games into his rookie season, the Celtics brass made a bold move: they traded the future superstar in order to make a run at the open Eastern Conference. The C’s sent Johnson, Milt Palacio, Randy Brown, and a 1st rounder for forward Rodney Rodgers and guard Tony Delk.

Sure the Celtics traded away a four time All-Star who is averaging 20 points, 4 rebounds, and 5.5 assists per game this season, but in my eyes it was worth it. Rodney Rogers played big minutes off the bench for the Celtics in their 16 playoff games averaging 24.6 minutes with 9 points and 5.5 rebounds. Delk played a lesser role averaging just under five points in 16 minutes, but would have a nice season in 2002-03.

Rogers was a key playoff cog.
The forward and guard proved to be big acquisitions for a Celtics squad that went all the way to the Eastern Conference Final[/quote]

Post #7 » by **Miller4ever** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:58 pm

You're arguing that Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk are better than Joe Johnson?

JarrettJackSG · Post #8 » by **JarrettJackSG** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:14 pm

For that season? Given how far they went into the playoffs? Absolutely.

Starkiller · Post #9 » by **Starkiller** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:15 pm

Miller4ever wrote:You're arguing that Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk are better than Joe Johnson?

That's what I was thinking. A trade like that better net you a championship. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Red Sox trading Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett even though they DID win the World Series LOL. The Joe Johnson move was absolutely stupid, no way to cut that.

Post #10 » by **Miller4ever** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 pm

It's like if we traded Collison for Mehmet Okur and Earl Watson. Yeah, we might be better for a season, but that would be an ultimately bad move no matter how you cut it.

Indy2thaWindy · Post #11 » by **Indy2thaWindy** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:28 pm

Starkiller wrote:
Miller4ever wrote:You're arguing that Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk are better than Joe Johnson?

That's what I was thinking. A trade like that better net you a championship. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Red Sox trading Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett even though they DID win the World Series LOL. The Joe Johnson move was absolutely stupid, no way to cut that.

You can't compare that trade. Hanley is one of my favorite players, but Beckett was one of the best pitchers in the game. Like you said they did win a World Series. That was a good trade for them.

Starkiller · Post #12 » by **Starkiller** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:51 pm

Indy2thaWindy wrote:
Starkiller wrote:
Miller4ever wrote:You're arguing that Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk are better than Joe Johnson?

That's what I was thinking. A trade like that better net you a championship. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Red Sox trading Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett even though they DID win the World Series LOL. The Joe Johnson move was absolutely stupid, no way to cut that.

You can't compare that trade. Hanley is one of my favorite players, but Beckett was one of the best pitchers in the game. Like you said they did win a World Series. That was a good trade for them.

Oh I know, I'm a Red Sox fan, I'm glad they did it, but still I think about what if. They've had a revolving door at SS since Nomar left, and Hanley is the best SS in the game. Now Beckett is almost done and Mike Lowell is retired. I guess they have the trophy to show for it, so in the end it's a win, but you can't help but think about how many titles could they have won with Hanley anchoring SS for years.

At the same time, if Boston never traded JJ, they never would have traded for Ray, and maybe never won the title that year. Ya never know w/ these things, all hindsight.

JarrettJackSG · Post #13 » by **JarrettJackSG** » Tue Feb 1, 2011 12:14 am

If you are trading in to win now, you always trade up to the better play if you want to win for that year. It was a success for them.

return2glory · Post #14 » by **return2glory** » Tue Feb 1, 2011 7:44 am

Celtic Esquire wrote:
return2glory wrote:
Forward a few years. Danny Ainge took over the Celtics and made a huge mistake by extended O'Briens contract. But Ainge soon wised up and corrected his mistake by firing O'Brien shortly after he extended his contract. I'm really suprised it took Larry Bird this long to correct his mistake, a mistake he should not have made in the first place.

Just to clarify, O'Brien was not fired by Ainge. Instead, O'Brien quit on the team by resigning after Ainge traded two of his binkies in Eric Williams and Tony Battie and was told to stop playing Walter McCarty so many minutes.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... ics_coach/

Celtic Esquire, you are right. Obie quit, he didn't get fired. Like you said, Ainge was trading away all of his binkies. Ainge was forcing OBie out. It was either quitting or having to fire him. Either way, Ainge got the job done of running O'Brien out. I thought Bird forever correct his mistake of hiring O'Brien in the first place.

return2glory · Post #15 » by **return2glory** » Tue Feb 1, 2011 7:52 am

JarrettJackSG , are you kidding? Soon as Eric Williams returned from his injury, Joe Johnson went back to the bench. Joe Johnson was a much better player than Eric Williams, but O'Brien was not bright enough to notice that. JOB was the one that stopped playing Joe Johnson. He was part of the reason JJ was traded.

That trade for JJ to get Delk and Rodney Rogers was an awful trade in the long run. It made the Celtics a little better for that year but they were never good enough to win the title after that trade. And they gave up on a rising star.

Either way, the Celtics were better of once Jim O' Brien left and the Pacers will be better off too without him.

The question now becomes will the Pacers be better off without Larry Bird running the show? Again Bird is my favorite all-time player but as a GM, he hasn't done much to help the Pacers. I would like to here the Pacer fans input on Bird as their GM.

Wizop · Post #16 » by **Wizop** » Tue Feb 1, 2011 1:21 pm

Starkiller wrote:That's what I was thinking. A trade like that better net you a championship.

Pacers made a similar move years ago and it cost Slick his GM job when it flopped. it was on my mind last night when the TV crew was talking about Alex English in apparent ignorance of the fact that he had once been a Pacer. we traded him to Denver to get George McGinnis back at the end of his career. ruined team chemistry. ironically the Denver gm at the time was Donny Walsh who later turned the tables on Denver with a great pair of trades that essentially rented them Mark Jackson for half a season and got us Jalen Rose.

Post #17 » by **Miller4ever** » Tue Feb 1, 2011 4:44 pm

return2glory wrote:The question now becomes will the Pacers be better off without Larry Bird running the show? Again Bird is my favorite all-time player but as a GM, he hasn't done much to help the Pacers. I would like to here the Pacer fans input on Bird as their GM.

He is good. Not amazing. Not genius. Not bad. Not average. Good. Walsh left and it was a weird team. We are much closer to having an identity and winning culture now, and the Collison trade was excellent. Draft picks have gotten public flak but haven't proven to be awful. George, Hansbrough, Price have all outplayed expectations (although George had a strange set of expectations for him) and Hibbert and Rush are living up to their promise albeit with some inconsistency.