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Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#781 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:19 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Here's the best I can think of at the moment:

Wizards send Kirk and Al Thornton to LAL
Wizard receive Steve Blake, Luke Walton, Devin Ebanks, Lakers 2011 1st round pick

Kirk is the perimeter defender they need and Al Thornton can give them energetic play on both ends as they grind through. Al can fill in while Artest is in Phil Jackson's doghouse and Matt Barnes is injured. Thornton might be even better for LAL than Kirk. Plus he's already played there for years. Gives Hinrich and Thornton new life like Butler, Stevenson, and Haywood got.

For the Wizards Ebanks might be a player to grow into a fine utility defender at Sf/SG. The late first might land Faried.

Comments?

Yes. That deal sucks. We are adding lots of long term salary and downgrading from Hinrich to Blake, all in an effort to acquire a fringe talent (Ebanks) and the #28 or so pick in the 2011 draft.

Hinrich can get us more value than this. If nothing else, I'd rather just dump Hinrich for an expiring contract and then buy a late 1st or early 2nd.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#782 » by tontoz » Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:30 pm

nate33 wrote:You're living in the past 507Mack. Artest simply isn't that good anymore. Rashard Lewis is a better player. Besides, we aren't being destroyed by SF's these days. It's PG's that are killing us (when Wall is guarding them, that is). Hinrich fills a much bigger hole in our lineup. I wouldn't trade Hinrich for Artest if their contracts were identical. I certainly wouldn't trade for Artest's existing contract.


Getting sidetracked here, but why do you think that is? He has all the length and athleticism you could want in a pg and is still getting burned. I have seen rookies struggle on D because they didn't know where they are supposed to be but i don't think that is the case here.

I had a strange thought the other day. Sometimes it looks like he forgets he is a player. It seems like at times he gets caught up watching the action and that makes him a little slow to react.
Thank God we didn't draft the Fat Matador.

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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#783 » by cwb3 » Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:40 pm

What do you think about the following trade:

The Washington Wizards for the Tulsa 66'rs.

Straight up!
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#784 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:40 pm

Blake can be easily moved. I believe you are disregarding the 28th pick too fast, nate.

Wesley Matthew, Millsap, Blair are all guys I believed before their drafts they belonged much higher. I am certain Faried will be the steal of this draft if he falls that low. As good as Fredette is projected to be, Charles Jenkins is probably the same player only better suited for the NBA game. Nolan Smith might still be on the board at 28 if Duke falls as I suspect they will. Jordan Williams could declare--you take a ten-year pro at 28 if he declares.

The way I see it, nate, is Hinrich is not a guy to keep behind Wall. Blake can be dealt and Walton is a decent passer. There are reasons the Lakers selected Ebanks. Kid was a vital player on a Final Four WVU team. He is in a numbers game behind Barnes, Artest, and Walton. Now is the best time to steal such a player. Him and a first are why you take contracts like Blake and Walton.

Lastly, Blake and Walton have won NCAA and NBA titles. Those guys are the veteran types you need around Wall, McGee, Seraphin, etc.

You have to give to get, nate. Kirk can help and this is like low risk and high reward potential in one move. Blake can help Wall, too.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#785 » by sipndip » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:11 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Blake can be easily moved. I believe you are disregarding the 28th pick too fast, nate.

Wesley Matthew, Millsap, Blair are all guys I believed before their drafts they belonged much higher. I am certain Faried will be the steal of this draft if he falls that low. As good as Fredette is projected to be, Charles Jenkins is probably the same player only better suited for the NBA game. Nolan Smith might still be on the board at 28 if Duke falls as I suspect they will. Jordan Williams could declare--you take a ten-year pro at 28 if he declares.

The way I see it, nate, is Hinrich is not a guy to keep behind Wall. Blake can be dealt and Walton is a decent passer. There are reasons the Lakers selected Ebanks. Kid was a vital player on a Final Four WVU team. He is in a numbers game behind Barnes, Artest, and Walton. Now is the best time to steal such a player. Him and a first are why you take contracts like Blake and Walton.

Lastly, Blake and Walton have won NCAA and NBA titles. Those guys are the veteran types you need around Wall, McGee, Seraphin, etc.

You have to give to get, nate. Kirk can help and this is like low risk and high reward potential in one move. Blake can help Wall, too.


Lakers already traded their 1st this year to NJ in the Joe Smith/Sasha Vujacic deal. A 3rd team would have to be brought in to send a pick to the Wiz
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#786 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:19 pm

Thanks, sipndip for the info.

Wow. Ratliff and Smith are only on the roster for playoff bodies/insurance. I don't see why LAL gave their first and Vujacic for Smith.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#787 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:20 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Blake can be easily moved. I believe you are disregarding the 28th pick too fast, nate.

Wesley Matthew, Millsap, Blair are all guys I believed before their drafts they belonged much higher. I am certain Faried will be the steal of this draft if he falls that low. As good as Fredette is projected to be, Charles Jenkins is probably the same player only better suited for the NBA game. Nolan Smith might still be on the board at 28 if Duke falls as I suspect they will. Jordan Williams could declare--you take a ten-year pro at 28 if he declares.

The way I see it, nate, is Hinrich is not a guy to keep behind Wall. Blake can be dealt and Walton is a decent passer. There are reasons the Lakers selected Ebanks. Kid was a vital player on a Final Four WVU team. He is in a numbers game behind Barnes, Artest, and Walton. Now is the best time to steal such a player. Him and a first are why you take contracts like Blake and Walton.

Lastly, Blake and Walton have won NCAA and NBA titles. Those guys are the veteran types you need around Wall, McGee, Seraphin, etc.

You have to give to get, nate. Kirk can help and this is like low risk and high reward potential in one move. Blake can help Wall, too.

As usual, your confidence in your drafting ability leads you to overvalue draft picks in trades. Yes, there's a chance that you can find someone good at #28, but the odds are WAY against you. The bottom line is that if you want a late pick, you can get them much easier than this.

It's a bad trade, CCJ. You can usually buy late picks with cash. And with the new CBA likely to reduce roster size, lots of established teams don't even have room for a draft pick so they'll gladly sell them.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#788 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:30 pm

Thanks, nate, for a well-reasoned response that has helped my knowledge base expand.

Heck yeah to just buying the pick! It beats the heck out of having long term deals. My eye is always on the talent. I really don't think about the nuances of the CBA and the salary cap moving forward.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#789 » by fishercob » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:44 pm

If I'm LA, I'd rather have Blatche than McGee. With Kobe, Gasol, and Odom around him, Dray will be forced in to better shot selection (or risk execution).

Plus, Phil would never ever ever trust McGee on D in the playoffs. I think Blatche could be coached up to back up PF and C in LA. He'd be a good third big.

Blatche and Hinrich for Bynum could work. We have two young, high ceiling guys at the hardest position to fill. With BYnum's final year unguaranteed, trade options would definitely flow out of this. Heck, maybe McGee fulfills CCJ's dream, spends the summer shooting J's and the Wiz roll with a twin towers option next year.

The other option would be to find a third team to take Artest. The Clippers perhaps? Ron-ron could get more freedom on O, complete a beastly front line and would even have to move.

Lakers trade: Bynum, Artest, Blake, Walton
Lakers get: Hinrich, Blatche, R. Lewis

Clippers trade: Aminu, R. Butler
Clippers get: Artest

Wiz trade: HInrich, R. Lewis, Blatche
Wiz get: Bynum, Aminu, Blake, Walton, R. Butler
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#790 » by LyricalRico » Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:59 pm

fishercob wrote:Blatche and Hinrich for Bynum could work.


I'd actually like to do that deal straight up, without a third team. Let LA try to move Artest on their own.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#791 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Feb 2, 2011 11:05 pm

Tears of joy is what that deal would give me, fish.

The Lakers wouldn't take Lewis's deal IMO. Clips want none of Artest around Griffin and no way do the Lakers risk Artest rejuvenating with the Clips. fish, I think Artest would be great at SF for the Clippers.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#792 » by montestewart » Thu Feb 3, 2011 1:31 am

fishercob wrote:If I'm LA, I'd rather have Blatche than McGee. With Kobe, Gasol, and Odom around him, Dray will be forced in to better shot selection (or risk execution).

Plus, Phil would never ever ever trust McGee on D in the playoffs. I think Blatche could be coached up to back up PF and C in LA. He'd be a good third big.

Blatche and Hinrich for Bynum could work. We have two young, high ceiling guys at the hardest position to fill. With BYnum's final year unguaranteed, trade options would definitely flow out of this. Heck, maybe McGee fulfills CCJ's dream, spends the summer shooting J's and the Wiz roll with a twin towers option next year.

The other option would be to find a third team to take Artest. The Clippers perhaps? Ron-ron could get more freedom on O, complete a beastly front line and would even have to move.

Lakers trade: Bynum, Artest, Blake, Walton
Lakers get: Hinrich, Blatche, R. Lewis

Clippers trade: Aminu, R. Butler
Clippers get: Artest

Wiz trade: HInrich, R. Lewis, Blatche
Wiz get: Bynum, Aminu, Blake, Walton, R. Butler

Nice threading the needle, but do the Wizards have enough roster spots to take on two more? Can anyone be cut?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#793 » by verbal8 » Thu Feb 3, 2011 1:59 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Thanks, sipndip for the info.

Wow. Ratliff and Smith are only on the roster for playoff bodies/insurance. I don't see why LAL gave their first and Vujacic for Smith.


I can think of 7 million reasons why. When you count the luxury tax, that is the difference between paying Vujacic and the vet minimum. If the Lakers have someone they like late in the 1st round they can likely buy a pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#794 » by fishercob » Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:50 am

montestewart wrote:
fishercob wrote:If I'm LA, I'd rather have Blatche than McGee. With Kobe, Gasol, and Odom around him, Dray will be forced in to better shot selection (or risk execution).

Plus, Phil would never ever ever trust McGee on D in the playoffs. I think Blatche could be coached up to back up PF and C in LA. He'd be a good third big.

Blatche and Hinrich for Bynum could work. We have two young, high ceiling guys at the hardest position to fill. With BYnum's final year unguaranteed, trade options would definitely flow out of this. Heck, maybe McGee fulfills CCJ's dream, spends the summer shooting J's and the Wiz roll with a twin towers option next year.

The other option would be to find a third team to take Artest. The Clippers perhaps? Ron-ron could get more freedom on O, complete a beastly front line and would even have to move.

Lakers trade: Bynum, Artest, Blake, Walton
Lakers get: Hinrich, Blatche, R. Lewis

Clippers trade: Aminu, R. Butler
Clippers get: Artest

Wiz trade: HInrich, R. Lewis, Blatche
Wiz get: Bynum, Aminu, Blake, Walton, R. Butler

Nice threading the needle, but do the Wizards have enough roster spots to take on two more? Can anyone be cut?


Rasual can be cut. He's expiring and out for the year. And I suppose you could cut Shakur if Blake was locked in as Wall's backup.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#795 » by Benjammin » Thu Feb 3, 2011 3:02 am

Even with his salary and injury history Bynum is an asset. Right now most teams would not view Blatche that way. I find it quite far fetched that LA would begin to consider Blatche for Bynum. Now McGee because he has a higher ceiling and currently a lower salary might be interesting to them, but even then I don't think it would cut it for them. Nate's hyperbole about perhaps not wanting Kobe, Gasol, or Bynum at their salaries was a little over the top, especially for Gasol and to a lesser extent Bynum.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#796 » by dangermouse » Thu Feb 3, 2011 3:53 am

I dont think LA would do Blatche + Kermit for Bynum straight up... They would probably want us to take back some salary, and would probably want to give us Walton. I think both sides (if EG is a little assertive and talks up Blatche's youth and potential, and Bynum's injury history) could come to an agreement on:

Wiz give: Hinny, Blache and either J.Howard or Thornton (it works with either, LAL can take their pick).

LAL give: Bynum, Steve Blake.

As others have said, we get an old Wiz vet back in Blake who can back up Wall, so we dont lose too much trading Hinny. We dont have to give up McGee who now has someone to fight with for minutes when Bynum is healthy. We take a bit of a risk with Bynum's knees and our much-loved crack medical team (by that i mean either crackpot, or they are on crack). LAL get two young, versatile guys in Blatche and Thornton, or a vet swingman in Howard, plus their coveted Hinny who emulates a lot of what Fisher does.

They do take a risk with Blatche... but i think someone like Kobe gets in his ear, probably also Artest. There is enough vets on that team to keep him in check. Knowing our luck, he blows up over there, and the addition of Dwight Howard becomes a reality, leaving the LAL another superstar type away from continued contention even when Kobe hangs up the sneakers.
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NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#797 » by dangermouse » Thu Feb 3, 2011 4:02 am

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:You're living in the past 507Mack. Artest simply isn't that good anymore. Rashard Lewis is a better player. Besides, we aren't being destroyed by SF's these days. It's PG's that are killing us (when Wall is guarding them, that is). Hinrich fills a much bigger hole in our lineup. I wouldn't trade Hinrich for Artest if their contracts were identical. I certainly wouldn't trade for Artest's existing contract.


Getting sidetracked here, but why do you think that is? He has all the length and athleticism you could want in a pg and is still getting burned. I have seen rookies struggle on D because they didn't know where they are supposed to be but i don't think that is the case here.

I had a strange thought the other day. Sometimes it looks like he forgets he is a player. It seems like at times he gets caught up watching the action and that makes him a little slow to react.


I dont think anyone here can answer that question definitively. But can anyone who has watched the games closely (i dont get to see as many as you guys) tell me if he is playing worse D post-injury than he was pre-injury? Its clear his confidence has also taken a huge shot. His shots arent dropping when they were earlier in the year pre-injury. All i can think is that he is playing through something, and we have to remember hes only young, getting used to the league. There is good odds that the all-star break gets him the rest he needs and he comes back energized and turns heads again for the latter half of the season, i really hope so..

Looking lost on D and spectating is a coaching thing, someone needs to get in his head and snap him out of it. And i dont just mean Flip or Cassell, we need a vocal veteran defensive man on the floor with them. Lewis is a good vet leader, locker room guy, but he is rather soft spoken and shy.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#798 » by hands11 » Thu Feb 3, 2011 5:07 am

nate33 wrote:You're living in the past 507Mack. Artest simply isn't that good anymore. Rashard Lewis is a better player. Besides, we aren't being destroyed by SF's these days. It's PG's that are killing us (when Wall is guarding them, that is). Hinrich fills a much bigger hole in our lineup. I wouldn't trade Hinrich for Artest if their contracts were identical. I certainly wouldn't trade for Artest's existing contract.



http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/1

One thing that is consistent about the top team... Defense and Point Allowed Per Game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... cago-bulls

And it's amazing how well this group is doing.
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... cago-bulls
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#799 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Feb 3, 2011 5:10 am

Benjammin wrote:Even with his salary and injury history Bynum is an asset. Right now most teams would not view Blatche that way. I find it quite far fetched that LA would begin to consider Blatche for Bynum. Now McGee because he has a higher ceiling and currently a lower salary might be interesting to them, but even then I don't think it would cut it for them. Nate's hyperbole about perhaps not wanting Kobe, Gasol, or Bynum at their salaries was a little over the top, especially for Gasol and to a lesser extent Bynum.


The only way Pau doesn't retire a Laker is if he plays to Shaq's age, IMO.

I believe Pau can gravy train his way to the hall of fame with one more ring and about 2-3 more seasons as a Laker. He's almost 50-50 for the HOF now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lpa01.html
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#800 » by hands11 » Thu Feb 3, 2011 7:31 am

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... l#comments

Nice to be in the drivers seat instead of the beggars. How well EG has done since Abe has passed will only become more and more clear as time goes on. Judging thing by W/L is simply silly at this point because that ignores all the work that was done to set the team up for sell and then rebuild.

Grunfeld, though, told HoopsWorld that he doesn't think that the Wizards will make any deals before the deadline. "For us it would really depend on what the deal is," Grunfeld said. "Of course, you never turn down the right deal, but it would have to really be the right deal. There's not as much conversation going on this year as in years past because a lot of teams are waiting to see how things will work out with the new collective bargaining agreement. We've positioned ourselves pretty well from a financial standpoint. We have some solid young players and our future looks good."

I think this team is fine on the path it is one. Those LA, Dallas, Boston teams are likely to get squeezed by the new CBA just like the Skins and SF did back in the day.

Wall, Booker, Seraphin, and McGee are four pieces that should shine in the future and Nick is another keeper that is already shining. Not saying this is all they will do but if they just keep this group together for next year, they would be a lot better just with more seasoning. What they need is more Booker types. They need more men.

The player I could see them thinking about moving is Dray. I have been a fan for years but he just isn't playing with enough fire and power. I could see them giving him more time since they are in no hurry and he is signed cheap enough to keep for now. But just something doesn't feel right having him, Nick and McGee. To much of the old knuckheads kid brains still here, even with Gil gone. Personality is a big an issue as performance. Just not a fan of the young party boy thing.

That's why having Kirk, Lewis and Howard is so important to this team. It's hard to put a lot of kids together and expect them to figure it out. I would grow them for a year at least with these vets until they get established before sending those vets off. Kirk is good for wall regarding teaching him how to defend.

I know people like making moves but like EG and Ted both said, you can't keep changing things. This team has already changed a ton both last year and this year.

I think I'm leaning toward summer deal over trade deadline deals but I could see it going either way.

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