[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[johnnywishbone]

we have expiring contracts and can take back harrington too. they have no advantage there. it's beaubois, that's it. that's all they have and that's all we have to beat.

Yes. And obviously this is a hypothetical argument but hey that's what we are good at.

Here is a trade that makes more sense to me if a deal like the Dallas one is on the table:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4m4sc5t
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4bd2kmw

And then the question becomes - is it worth it?

edit: Above I'd say those are the worst case trades

I think this would be like "best case":

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4tecoz3

[stuporman]

Denver has a tough choice and there are no good options for them anymore. Although if they screw themselves even further just to spite a player or another franchise and get substantially less than what the market value is for Melo that's stupid. If done for spite they deserve the decade of losing they'll put themselves in by not accepting some very good players with alot of upside because they expect 'fair value' or can't 'replace' Melo.

[god shammgod]

we have expiring contracts and can take back harrington too. they have no advantage there. it's beaubois, that's it. that's all they have and that's all we have to beat.

Yes. And obviously this is a hypothetical argument but hey that's what we are good at.

Here is a trade that makes more sense to me if a deal like the Dallas one is on the table:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4m4sc5t
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4bd2kmw

And then the question becomes - is it worth it?

why do you have to give up chanlder, fields & ar to beat an offer of beaubois ? i think you're overvaluing him.

edit - your best trade and worst trade are both too extreme. something in the middle is more reasonable.

[tangotai]

So would you guys consider it good news or bad news if he's not a Knick by the deadline?

If we get him and get to keep Gallo, Fields, and Mozz I am happy. If we have to give up one of those guys I will be very disappointed. And if we don't get him and have to wait till free agency I'm fine with that...

+ 1 million
I would have written this word for word if you didn't beat me to it.
Gallo, Fields and Mr. Moz are the core going forward...

[vandyman22]

Just to answer your question guys.... as a Mavs fan, your answer is yes. If Denver says give us Chandler instead of Haywood and you can get Melo, we pull the trigger in a new york minute. Haywood is a quality starting center in this league when he's not moping about playing behind Tyson Chandler, and Mahinmi seems like to be developing into a better center than Haywood anyway.

We can say whatever we want about Beaubois, but the fact is he has good trade value. That was evidenced this summer when Dallas was offered Indiana's pick for him (and another lottery pick as well from a unanimous team), and a GM survey this summer that commented on Beaubois.... (survey asked all the GM's what international player they expected to have a break out year, and Beaubois recieved double the vote of anyone else). So even if Denver doesn't want him, they can probably trade him for someone they do want.

Chandler/Beaubois/Butler/$/picks is a pretty good package. NY can't get away with just offering spare parts.

Also... If I'm a rebuilding team and I have the ability to lock up a premier defensive center in Tyson Chandler, I do it. That's a huge part of playoff/championship caliber teams... having a quality center and a respectable interior D. Resigning Chandler would have to a top priority for any team in need of a true center.

[tangotai]

My new list of untouchables for Melo:

Mozzy, Amar'e, Felton, Gallo and Fields. Everyone else, good day and good bye.

Now we are coming together on this... Yes. Yes YES!

[el loco]

I don't see Denver and Dallas making a trade anytime soon no matter who is involved in the deal. Hell, it could be Melvin Ely for a project ball boy with great upside and I still don't see it. I see Denver doing a trade with the Lakers before I see them doing one with the Mavs.

The Nuggets and Mavs hate each other. Lala was kicked out of their gym during the playoffs two years ago, Cuban got into a verbal fight with Kmart's mom and she was pretty much attacked at one of the games by Mavs fans. Cuban has publicly attacked JR Smith several times over the years, etc... Then throw in the fact that the Mavs have absolutely nothing of interest to Denver. I guess anything is possible, but I fail to see where the concern with them comes from.

[stuporman]

That's funny cause Indy offered their pick for the seldom used AR as well..... and there are first round picks still on the table for him. So who's more valuable? A rarely used guard or a rarely used big man? Not to mention the Knicks also have 5 young prospects that are producing even more than AR.....

[johnnywishbone]

Just to answer your question guys.... as a Mavs fan, your answer is yes. If Denver says give us Chandler instead of Haywood and you can get Melo, we pull the trigger in a new york minute. Haywood is a quality starting center in this league when he's not moping about playing behind Tyson Chandler, and Mahinmi seems like to be developing into a better center than Haywood anyway.

We can say whatever we want about Beaubois, but the fact is he has good trade value. That was evidenced this summer when Dallas was offered Indiana's pick for him (and another lottery pick as well from a unanimous team), and a GM survey this summer that commented on Beaubois.... (survey asked all the GM's what international player they expected to have a break out year, and Beaubois recieved double the vote of anyone else). So even if Denver doesn't want him, they can probably trade him for someone they do want.

Chandler/Beaubois/Butler/$/picks is a pretty good package. NY can't get away with just offering spare parts.

Also... If I'm a rebuilding team and I have the ability to lock up a premier defensive center in Tyson Chandler, I do it. That's a huge part of playoff/championship caliber teams... having a quality center and a respectable interior D. Resigning Chandler would have to a top priority for any team in need of a true center.

Do you believe there is enough animus between Dallas and Denver to prevent a deal from getting done?

[NYK0605]

My new list of untouchables for Melo:

Mozzy, Amar'e, Felton, Gallo and Fields. Everyone else, good day and good bye.

Now we are coming together on this... Yes. Yes YES!

Thats funny looks like we both have the same list except for a few.

Heres my untouchable list:

Amare

[tangotai]

here's a question - would you deal Gallo if you could hold onto both Fields and Chandler? Or would you rather force Chandler and Fields in order to hold onto Gallo..

I think better question is.....when we get Melo who would compliment him the most?

Gallo was drafted for D'antoni.

I really doubt Walsh would deal him for Melo unless he was forced to as a condition of the trade.

Forced to? No one is holding a gun to DW's head saying trade Gallo or no Melo. Denver doesn't have leverage here and DW will not blow up the team... he has said that often enough to take it at face value.

DW can and hopefully will just say NO to trading Gallo.

[stuporman]

My untouchable list is: Curry

Not because he shouldn't be traded but because nobody would touch him... no matter how much he begged for it.

[knicks742]

My new list of untouchables for Melo:

Mozzy, Amar'e, Felton, Gallo and Fields. Everyone else, good day and good bye.

Now we are coming together on this... Yes. Yes YES!

Thats funny looks like we both have the same list except for a few.

Heres my untouchable list:

Amare

Smartass.

[vandyman22]

All I'm saying is that Chanlder is a legitimate part of the trade IMO. Tyson Chandler is the type of center that successful playoff teams NEED.... why would Denver just let him walk or not even attempt to resign him?

In regards to Beaubois, I just think he's more attractive (in terms of trade value) than Fields and more attractive than Chandler (because he's an RFA).

It really depends on whether NY is confident in Melo's decision to sign with them this summer. I do think NY can beat a Dallas offer, I just think your going to have to be willing to give up some pieces you they not want to.... and NY may not want to do that if they are fairly confident in Melo's desire to sign with them.

[god shammgod]

All I'm saying is that Chanlder is a legitimate part of the trade IMO. Tyson Chandler is the type of center that successful playoff teams NEED.... why would Denver just let him walk or not even attempt to resign him?

because even with him they won't be a successful playoff team, plus they're looking to save money. no way would they resign him. are they letting nene walk for him ?

[vandyman22]

Just to answer your question guys.... as a Mavs fan, your answer is yes. If Denver says give us Chandler instead of Haywood and you can get Melo, we pull the trigger in a new york minute. Haywood is a quality starting center in this league when he's not moping about playing behind Tyson Chandler, and Mahinmi seems like to be developing into a better center than Haywood anyway.

We can say whatever we want about Beaubois, but the fact is he has good trade value. That was evidenced this summer when Dallas was offered Indiana's pick for him (and another lottery pick as well from a unanimous team), and a GM survey this summer that commented on Beaubois.... (survey asked all the GM's what international player they expected to have a break out year, and Beaubois recieved double the vote of anyone else). So even if Denver doesn't want him, they can probably trade him for someone they do want.

Chandler/Beaubois/Butler/$/picks is a pretty good package. NY can't get away with just offering spare parts.

Also... If I'm a rebuilding team and I have the ability to lock up a premier defensive center in Tyson Chandler, I do it. That's a huge part of playoff/championship caliber teams... having a quality center and a respectable interior D. Resigning Chandler would have to a top priority for any team in need of a true center.

Do you believe there is enough animus between Dallas and Denver to prevent a deal from getting done?

No, owners and GM's do not behave like that. If a team is obviously going into rebuilding mode.... trading him within the conference is not nearly as big of a deal as it usually would be. It's not like Denver will be going to the playoffs anytime soon (after the Melo trade of course). Denver is going to take the best deal being offered, regardless of where it is coming from.



2)

[stuporman]

Well, you'd be wrong. Fields is more attractive than a guard who isn't playing...period.

So Denver would trade Melo for a guard who doesn't play now and would only be their back up and for players who expire after the season...plus a late first round pick or two? That's better than what the Knicks can offer? Delusional......

[johnnywishbone]

All I'm saying is that Chanlder is a legitimate part of the trade IMO. Tyson Chandler is the type of center that successful playoff teams NEED.... why would Denver just let him walk or not even attempt to resign him?

In regards to Beaubois, I just think he's more attractive (in terms of trade value) than Fields and more attractive than Chandler (because he's an RFA).

It really depends on whether NY is confident in Melo's decision to sign with them this summer. I do think NY can beat a Dallas offer, I just think your going to have to be willing to give up some pieces you they not want to.... and NY may not want to do that if they are fairly confident in Melo's desire to sign with them.

That's why I think the win-win-win situation is the following:

Denver trades Melo to Dallas.
Dallas gets a serious playoff run
Denver gets to get under the cap can try to sign Jeff Green and Gasol/Chandler
Dallas extends and trades Melo to NY
NY signs and trade Chandler + sends AR to Dallas.
NY gets superstar
Ill Wil gets his contract + goes to a good team.
AR goes to a team where he will get a chance to play.

[tangotai]

My untouchable list is: Curry

Not because he shouldn't be traded but because nobody would touch him... no matter how much he begged for it.

Curry's only value to this board is to be the focal point of jokes.
I'd trade him for a Big Mac and fries to give to the homeless, but I'd be afraid if the homeless guy found out how I came by the food he wouldn't touch it either.

[vandyman22]

All I'm saying is that Chanlder is a legitimate part of the trade IMO. Tyson Chandler is the type of center that successful playoff teams NEED.... why would Denver just let him walk or not even attempt to resign him?

because even with him they won't be a successful playoff team, plus they're looking to save money. no way would they resign him. are they letting nene walk for him ?

If I'm a rebuilding team, I'm taking players that will get me back to the playoffs again. That's the point of rebuilding. We don't even know if Nene wants to stay in Denver (he reportedly want's a trade), so trading him probably wouldn't be a bad idea for the Nuggets anyway to fill other holes on their roster. Besides, Nene isn't even a true center and is the reason Denver gets dominated by the Lakers.... Bynum/Gasol can push him around. If any team EVER has a chance to lock up their center position and interior defense long term, they usually pursue that opportunity. It's one of the most difficult pieces to find in the NBA and Chandler could possibly be an all star this year. He is much more valuable as a player than as an expiring contract. Even if Chandler doesn't resign with the Nuggets, they could probably pull a S&T over the summer to a team in need of a center (about half the NBA) for a good player.