The list of players you would trade LaMarcus for?

[Malapropism]

If they had Griffin instead of Aldridge, Portland would be a lottery team

That's definitely arguable.

[SalemStoner]

9 definites, 8 maybes for me.

PG:
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo?
Russell Westbrook?

SG:
Dwyane Wade

SF:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony

PF:
Blake Griffin
Dirk Nowitzki?
Pau Gasol?
Chris Bosh?
Amare Stoudemire?
Al Horford?
Kevin Love?

C:
Dwight Howard

This list is pretty close to mine. I value him a bit higher due to his length and ability to stay healthy as well as his lack of any serious injuries in his past.

I agree that if we had Griffin(or Love) instead of Aldridge right now we would be a lottery team.

[monopoman]

A lot of the guys on your expanded list there dude are too old.

I actually think Dallas would consider Dirk for Aldridge straight up and not consider it a ridiculously lopsided offer in our favor.

You can't honestly tell me that for the next 4-5 years Dirk >>> Aldridge.

BTW: Aldridge has better stats then Horford.

[Agenda42]

I actually think Dallas would consider Dirk for Aldridge straight up and not consider it a ridiculously lopsided offer in our favor.

You can't honestly tell me that for the next 4-5 years Dirk >>> Aldridge.

It's a maybe. Dirk is playing at an MVP level this season. He's a guy whose game has aged well and will probably continue to age well. 5 years from now Aldridge is better, but 3 years from now? Not so clear.

BTW: Aldridge has better stats then Horford.

Horford has superior PER, WS48, and TS%. I'd think about it.

[48_7]

1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Chris Paul
7. (Healthy) Brandon Roy

Those are, honestly, the only slam dunk choices for me. I'm taking into account age, injury history, etc.

There are some others that I would consider, such as:

Blake Griffin (65%)
Rajon Rondo (45%)
Kevin Love (20%)
Russell Westbrook (20%)

Obviously, if Kobe, D-Wade, Amar'e or Dirk was younger, they are consensus choices.

[Wizenheimer]

If they had Griffin instead of Aldridge, Portland would be a lottery team

That's definitely arguable.

just about everything is arguable, especially around here

but I don't think you can make much of a case that Griffin would have made the Blazers as good a team this year as Aldridge has, at least not if you judge by wins

Aldridge's net 'on court/off court' production is easily the highest on the Blazers at +13.7. By comparison, Griffin actually ranks 4th on the Clippers at +3.8. Gordon (+8.8), Jordan (+5.2), & Davis (+4.3) are all better. Those are revealing numbers.

The Blazers are running a lot of their offense through Aldridge, and they are asking him to create a lot of offense for himself out of the low post. Griffin can't do that with any effectiveness at this point. But that's what Portland needs without Roy.

[monopoman]

I don't know many players that can turn their game on like Aldridge can after Roy got injured he slowly progressed into one of the best PF's in the league with ease.

I think we might just be seeing the tip of the ice berg here and he might get even better then he is now. Its not that unusual for a guy to take a while to come out of his shell so to speak in the NBA. Billups was not much until he was in the league for a few years.

[Malapropism]

If they had Griffin instead of Aldridge, Portland would be a lottery team

That's definitely arguable.

Aldridge's net 'on court/off court' production is easily the highest on the Blazers at +13.7. By comparison, Griffin actually ranks 4th on the Clippers at +3.8. Gordon (+8.8), Jordan (+5.2), & Davis (+4.3) are all better. Those are revealing numbers.

I don't think it's that simple. Griffin plays in basically...no system. VDN just lets the young players figure it out on the court. Sometimes it produces results, but in close games or when they need to finish a game, they can't really execute. If Griffin played in a more controlled and experienced system like in Portland, I think his stats would drop, but I don't think we'd actually lose some, if any, more games than we do with Aldridge.

The Blazers are running a lot of their offense through Aldridge, and they are asking him to create a lot of offense for himself out of the low post. Griffin can't do that with any effectiveness at this point. But that's what Portland needs without Roy.

Griffin doesn't have as good of a post game as Aldridge, but he's more of a wildcard scorer on the offensive end. It's not very hard to stop ISO Aldridge really. Denver and Sacramento have had great success by putting a strong guy on Aldridge and bringing doubles when Aldridge makes a move. I think a guy like Griffin would have much better success against those teams. Also, Griffin is a monster rebounder. Griffin and Camby would be dominant on another level, and Griffin by himself would probably be enough to keep us even in rebounding on a nightly basis, something that Aldridge just doesn't do. (And we've seen with Camby out)

[Wizenheimer]

I don't think it's that simple. Griffin plays in basically...no system. VDN just lets the young players figure it out on the court. Sometimes it produces results, but in close games or when they need to finish a game, they can't really execute. If Griffin played in a more controlled and experienced system like in Portland, I think his stats would drop, but I don't think we'd actually lose some, if any, more games than we do with Aldridge.

I agree about the LAC 'system', but I think you are significantly underestimating the impact of Aldridge's low post game on Portland's fortunes. Removing that and replacing it with Griffin's free-lancing would make Portland's offense a lot more ugly then it already is.

Griffin doesn't have as good of a post game as Aldridge, but he's more of a wildcard scorer on the offensive end.

When LAC played Portland the last time, the Blazers turned it into a half-court game and Griffin struggled. Now part of it was that Griffin looked overmatched Aldridge. it was man vs boy that night. Another part of it is that Griffin gets more transition opportunities with LAC. He would be getting those playing for Portland

It's not very hard to stop ISO Aldridge really.

yeah...that's why opponents have 'held' him to an average of 25 & 10 over the last 25 games or so.

Denver and Sacramento have had great success by putting a strong guy on Aldridge and bringing doubles when Aldridge makes a move.

against Denver. Aldridge has averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds over 3 games. But two of those games were in Denver and both of those games were on the 2nd night of a back to back. I don't believe you can draw too many conclusions about that matchup. besides that, it's not like the Blazers normally play good in Denver

Against Sacramento, Aldridge did struggle against Delambert.. And the team as a whole laid a big egg in the RG. Again, I think you'd be reading too much into it if you think there's some kind of template there. Tim Duncan, who is still a pretty good defender, just saw Aldridge torch him and his team for 40 points

I think a guy like Griffin would have much better success against those teams. Also, Griffin is a monster rebounder. Griffin and Camby would be dominant on another level, and Griffin by himself would probably be enough to keep us even in rebounding on a nightly basis, something that Aldridge just doesn't do. (And we've seen with Camby out)

I've watched Griffin rebound....he's a lot like Love. By that I mean he looks to rebound to the exclusion of just about everything else. He sags into the lane on defense, leaving his man open on the outside all the time. But if he played for Nate, that wouldn't happen. he'd be switching on to guards all the time, just like Aldridge.

Rebounding isn't really a problem for the Blazers, even though many think it is. Portland is the best offensive rebounding team in the league. And they are 12th in total rebound rate. They rank that low because their defensive rebounding suffers do to switching defensive schemes and a heavy use of zone. Griffin wouldn't make a dent in that

[Malapropism]

I agree about the LAC 'system', but I think you are significantly underestimating the impact of Aldridge's low post game on Portland's fortunes. Removing that and replacing it with Griffin's free-lancing would make Portland's offense a lot more ugly then it already is.

Perhaps....but Griffin doubles Aldridge's assist %, and draws 3 more FTA per game, which is a lot in the NBA. Those two stats show abilities that can really help a stagnant offense.

[Wizenheimer]

I agree about the LAC 'system', but I think you are significantly underestimating the impact of Aldridge's low post game on Portland's fortunes. Removing that and replacing it with Griffin's free-lancing would make Portland's offense a lot more ugly then it already is.

Perhaps....but Griffin doubles Aldridge's assist %, and draws 3 more FTA per game, which is a lot in the NBA. Those two stats show abilities that can really help a stagnant offense.

when Portland has players playing "wildcard" offense (as you call it) they are pretty bad. I don't believe you can extrapolate that Griffin has any ability to solve stagnant offense by looking at his FTA or assist%. LAC plays at a faster pace and I don't know exactly where those extra FT attempts are created. How much are due to transition?

As fa a assists, one thing I've noticed about Aldridge is that he makes a ton of passes that directly precede an assist, mostly out of low post double teams. Portland rarely has backdoor and weakside cutters, so Aldridge's passing opportunities are almost all perimeter

I'm not going to spend more time arguing this kind of strange point. I'm convinced, that while Griffin might be the more talented player, the Blazers would be a worse team this season with him instead of Aldridge.

[Malapropism]

When LAC played Portland the last time, the Blazers turned it into a half-court game and Griffin struggled. Now part of it was that Griffin looked overmatched Aldridge. it was man vs boy that night. Another part of it is that Griffin gets more transition opportunities with LAC. He would be getting those playing for Portland

Even a struggling Griffin put up 20/17. The guys motor is insane, and is likely going to win you more games than lose. And even if Portland has been able to stop Griffin for a game, the rest of the league hasn't. 26/13/4 in January? Jesus christ...

Maybe he wouldn't get as much transition opportunities in Portland, but you're pairing him with the best lob passer in the game, and a great passer at the center position with Camby. You could run a lot of the same plays you run with Aldridge because of Griffins leaping ability. There won't be much of a shortage of easy points for BG.

yeah...that's why opponents have 'held' him to an average of 25 & 10 over the last 25 games or so.

There's a method, just like there's a method with Griffin.

against Denver. Aldridge has averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds over 3 games. But two of those games were in Denver and both of those games were on the 2nd night of a back to back. I don't believe you can draw too many conclusions about that matchup. besides that, it's not like the Blazers normally play good in Denver

Excuses. You've watched the games, Aldridge was clearly not as big a part of the offense playing against Denver. He could not get his post game going against Denver. (Although I thought he played better defense against Denver)

Against Sacramento, Aldridge did struggle against Delambert.. And the team as a whole laid a big egg in the RG. Again, I think you'd be reading too much into it if you think there's some kind of template there. Tim Duncan, who is still a pretty good defender, just saw Aldridge torch him and his team for 40 points

Tim Duncan barely guarded Aldridge...San Antonio stupidly thought they could single cover Aldridge with McDyess and Blair, and then started switching picks later into the game leaving guards like Hill and Ginobili stuck on Aldridge.

I've watched Griffin rebound....he's a lot like Love. By that I mean he looks to rebound to the exclusion of just about everything else. He sags into the lane on defense, leaving his man open on the outside all the time. But if he played for Nate, that wouldn't happen. he'd be switching on to guards all the time, just like Aldridge.

I've watched Griffin rebound too, and I would mostly agree. He's an instinctive rebounder. Like Love (and Camby, hell, Camby ALWAYS sags into the lane), he's the type of player that would run in to grab a offensive or defensive rebound even if he was stuck on the perimeter. No offense to Aldridge, but when he's on the perimeter, he stays at the perimeter.

And Aldridge just isn't a good defensive rebounder. He has trouble grabbing defensive rebounds in traffic and often allows offensive rebounds. People always say that the reason Aldridge isn't a good rebounder is because he's stuck on the perimeter....but watching the games, it's pretty clear that he just doesn't go after a lot of rebounds, especially on the defensive end.

Rebounding isn't really a problem for the Blazers, even though many think it is. Portland is the best offensive rebounding team in the league. And they are 12th in total rebound rate. They rank that low because their defensive rebounding suffers do to switching defensive schemes and a heavy use of zone. Griffin wouldn't make a dent in that

It is when Camby is out....Portland has outrebounded one team in that stretch, the Celtics, who are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.

Besides, I really don't see the problem of turning a strength into an even bigger strength.

[King d]

Aldridge for Derrick Rose? CP3? And who is going to be our big man? Cunningham? Przybilla? Marks?

I honestly wouldn't do that.

[Village Idiot]

Tim Duncan barely guarded Aldridge...San Antonio stupidly thought they could single cover Aldridge with McDyess and Blair, and then started switching picks later into the game leaving guards like Hill and Ginobili stuck on Aldridge.

And that was proably pretty wise. The few times Duncan was on Aldridge he got torched. Remember early in the game Aldridge faked the jumper and then blew past Duncan for the dunk? After that Duncan would't come out on LaMarcus who hit several 15-18 foot jumpers completely unguarded.

[Wickzki]

In order of definite

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Blake Griffin
John Wall
Al Horford
Tyreke Evans
Kevin Love
Josh Smith

Maybe Russell Westbrook

People are going to scream about Derrick Rose but he is an absolute sieve on the defensive end of the floor. I truly believe he has to score 20+ per night to break even. You can't even consider winning a championship without defense at the PG position.

People are going to moan about Rondo > Howard. I'll point out that the PG's main responsibility on the offensive end of the floor is to create better scoring opportunities for his teammates. Not only is Rondo averaging 12.5apg but what is even more startling (to me) is the following;

Paul Pierce: .512 FG% - 19.1ppg (1st on team)
Ray Allen: .508 FG% - 17.3ppg (2nd on team)
Kevin Garnett: .533 FG% - 15.0ppg (3rd on team)
Rajon Rondo: .515 FG% - 10.6ppg (5th on team)
Shaq O'Neal: .662 FG% - 9.3ppg (6th on team)
Delonte West: .560 FG% - 6.8ppg (8th on team)
Kendrick Perkins: .611 FG% - 5.8ppg (9th on team)

Of their top ten scorers (admittedly Perkins and West have played 10 combined games) average wise only Big Baby Davis (.462 FG%), Nate Robinson (.409 FG%) and Marquis Daniels (.487 FG%) are shooting under .500 from the field. Davis plays an away from the basket big man game that doesn't lend itself to a high field goal percentage, Robinson is Rondo's primary backup and he's a renound bad shot jacker anyway and Marquis Daniels is their defensive swingman off the bench who averages under 12 FGA/48.

That's remarkable. Yes, I know Rajon missed games.

[Malapropism]

Tim Duncan barely guarded Aldridge...San Antonio stupidly thought they could single cover Aldridge with McDyess and Blair, and then started switching picks later into the game leaving guards like Hill and Ginobili stuck on Aldridge.

And that was proably pretty wise. The few times Duncan was on Aldridge he got torched. Remember early in the game Aldridge faked the jumper and then blew past Duncan for the dunk? After that Duncan would't come out on LaMarcus who hit several 15-18 foot jumpers completely unguarded.

Woo, one play....

Yeah, it was wise to switch and put Hill and Ginobili on him. Are you being serious??

[Wizenheimer]

Maybe he wouldn't get as much transition opportunities in Portland, but you're pairing him with the best lob passer in the game, and a great passer at the center position with Camby. You could run a lot of the same plays you run with Aldridge because of Griffins leaping ability. There won't be much of a shortage of easy points for BG.

Griffin might get about the same amount of easy points that Aldridge gets, but that's not the issue

Aldridge has been getting Portland's difficult points, and that's something Griffin can't do at this stage of his career. He may get there but he isn't there yet. Aldridge can get those points because he's developed a decent repertoire of low post moves to go along with his height.

yeah...that's why opponents have 'held' him to an average of 25 & 10 over the last 25 games or so.

There's a method, just like there's a method with Griffin.

there was a "method" for stopping Roy when he was healthy too: put Ron Artest on him. But even that wasn't successful in the 09 playoffs and only one team has an Artest

but you said "It's not very hard to stop ISO Aldridge really"

if it wasn't hard to stop Aldridge, teams wouldn't be allowing him to average 25 points.

against Denver. Aldridge has averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds over 3 games. But two of those games were in Denver and both of those games were on the 2nd night of a back to back. I don't believe you can draw too many conclusions about that matchup. besides that, it's not like the Blazers normally play good in Denver

Excuses. You've watched the games, Aldridge was clearly not as big a part of the offense playing against Denver. He could not get his post game going against Denver. (Although I thought he played better defense against Denver)

it's not excuses at all, it's simply stating a fact.

Both of those games in Denver were the 2nd of a back to back. And Aldridge has been averaging the 2nd highest minutes in the NBA. Going into that elevation and playing again in less then 24 hours is the most difficult 2nd game in the NBA.

when it wasn't a back-to-back, Aldridge scored 24 points and grabbed 10 rebounds against Denver, and this was before he had become a 1st option

And Aldridge just isn't a good defensive rebounder. He has trouble grabbing defensive rebounds in traffic and often allows offensive rebounds. People always say that the reason Aldridge isn't a good rebounder is because he's stuck on the perimeter....but watching the games, it's pretty clear that he just doesn't go after a lot of rebounds, especially on the defensive end.

Aldridge is 4th in the NBA in offensive rebounds behind Love, Zach, & DH, but ahead of Griffin. So he does have rebounding talent and does "go after" rebounds.

Your criticisms of his defensive rebounding have some validity, but discounting Blazer defensive schemes as a significant reason for the defensive rebounding 'issue' has little validity. When the Blazers lead the league in offensive rebounding rate but are 22nd in defensive rebounding rate, there's a definite structural issue with their positioning on the defensive glass

It is when Camby is out....Portland has outrebounded one team in that stretch, the Celtics, who are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.

and there's no reason to believe that would be any different it it was Griffin splitting time at PF and C when Camby was out. As a matter of fact, there's plenty of reason to believe Portland would be worse off if Griffin was forced to split time at C like Aldridge has been

Besides, I really don't see the problem of turning a strength into an even bigger strength.

the problem comes when the increase in a team strength is more then offset by losses in other phases of the game while also magnifying weaknesses

maybe you think I'm advocating the Aldridge is better then Griffin. I'm not. All I'm saying is that the Blazers are the type of team this season that are better with Aldridge's low post game then they would be with Griffin's highlight reel game.

[sisibilio]

I actually think Dallas would consider Dirk for Aldridge straight up and not consider it a ridiculously lopsided offer in our favor.

You can't honestly tell me that for the next 4-5 years Dirk >>> Aldridge.

It's a maybe. Dirk is playing at an MVP level this season. He's a guy whose game has aged well and will probably continue to age well. 5 years from now Aldridge is better, but 3 years from now? Not so clear.

BTW: Aldridge has better stats then Horford.

Horford has superior PER, WS48, and TS%. I'd think about it.

Horford is having a spectacular season, let's not forget that he's been forced to play out of his natural position almost since he got to the league.
One thing that shocked me watching advanced stats is that he's an elite mid-long range shooter, believe it or not even better than Nowitzki from 16-23 feet.

[Village Idiot]

Tim Duncan barely guarded Aldridge...San Antonio stupidly thought they could single cover Aldridge with McDyess and Blair, and then started switching picks later into the game leaving guards like Hill and Ginobili stuck on Aldridge.

And that was proably pretty wise. The few times Duncan was on Aldridge he got torched. Remember early in the game Aldridge faked the jumper and then blew past Duncan for the dunk? After that Duncan would't come out on LaMarcus who hit several 15-18 foot jumpers completely unguarded.

Woo, one play....

Yeah, it was wise to switch and put Hill and Ginobili on him. Are you being serious??

I was posting regarding the Duncan part of the statement and them using Blair and McDyess instead of Duncan on LaMarcus.

[Agenda42]

I'm not going to spend more time arguing this kind of strange point. I'm convinced, that while Griffin might be the more talented player, the Blazers would be a worse team this season with him instead of Aldridge.

I'm convinced of this too, but I'd still trade Aldridge for Griffin.