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Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable.

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Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#1 » by evildallas » Thu Feb 3, 2011 4:50 pm

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18656

The article does a reasonable job of casing the lineup for trade possibilities and acknowledges the requirement to stay under the luxury tax. It's an interesting take on whom gets more attention and credit Horford or Smith.
A quick summary of some other points in the article:
Marvin hasn't brought any interest when shopped
Bibby is tradeable but requires a playoff quality PG in return
Jamal is untouchable because nothing we could get would be as valuable as the role he fills
Teague still has some trade value.
Zaza might be our most tradeable asset.

After reading it broken down it becomes more apparent that a trade is very unlikely.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#2 » by ballislife » Fri Feb 4, 2011 3:45 am

Marvin + Bibby for Calderon + Julian Wright + future 2nd rounder

or Marvin + ATL 2011 first for Calderon...

... think you guys would consider any of those?
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#3 » by evildallas » Fri Feb 4, 2011 3:59 am

I would, but I don't think ownership wants to shake things up that much. Their master plan was to reap the benefits of familiarity.

The second variation wouldn't work because it would push us over the luxury tax threshold and they've said that won't happen. The first works math wise and I think it helps both teams.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#4 » by ballislife » Fri Feb 4, 2011 4:41 am

In order for the second variation to work, would you be willing to add Mo Evans?... I think that would save you guys almost $800k.

I think the second one would be better for the Hawks because you would still be able to keep Bibby as the backup PG. It would provide for some pretty good depth and leadership at the guard positions with Calderon/Bibby/Teague/JJ/Crawford x 2... the only thing would be the SF depth. I would imagine Smith sliding to the SF with Horford at the PF... that would leave a bit of a hole at C, but I assume Pachulia would be able to fill in relatively well.

Also, it wouldn't be a major change to the lineup - just the addition of a distributing PG. The only thing that would probably hinder Toronto from making this deal would be the fact that besides Bayless, Barbosa is the only real capable backup. I still think it would be a beneficial deal to both sides... it seems like Marvin isn't really needed much with the current Hawks lineup, and Toronto's looking to get younger... also you guys are in need of a PG to initiate the offense - Calderon does that efficiently and effectively.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#5 » by captaincrunk » Fri Feb 4, 2011 6:01 am

ballislife wrote:Marvin + Bibby for Calderon + Julian Wright + future 2nd rounder

or Marvin + ATL 2011 first for Calderon...

... think you guys would consider any of those?

Bibby is better than Calderon...
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#6 » by theatlfan » Fri Feb 4, 2011 7:51 am

The article seems to be more of a collection of the rumors over the last few years than any inside info... which is nice, just not what I was hoping for.

Thoughts:
- I wonder how much Marvin is "untradeable" versus how much we want for him. I'd imagine Sund is putting a price of "average SF, but with 17+ppg upside" which, while possibly fair, isn't exactly the same as "can't find a taker". I think the fact that we need a SF back has more to do with this than anything else. If you're dealing with a team that already has a SF, then why would they want Marvin?

- I wonder how much Zaza has gone from "Expendable" to "Dump him" this year. It appears that LD prefers the "true C" over the hybrid guys and Zaza's game has suffered under LD as well. If we can dump him without taking on salary, we might have enough to offer the MLE next off-season. Considering that guys like Murphy, Przybilla, and Nazr would be on the market, it wouldn't be a bad time to be armed with such.

- I wonder if Crawford really is "untouchable". He's definitely done waaaaay more this year than I ever would have dreamed. I would have figured that he a) wouldn't have been a fit in the system and b) would be crying over his contract all year. Instead, he's kept his head down and has shown excellent play on the court so it's not like we're particularly inclined to deal him. But still, you'd have to think that someone would be interested in obtaining his Bird Rights. I do think that if we make a big move then the trade would look like a package Crawford and another piece (Bibby? Williams? Zaza?) to slough off some salary and get an upgrade for the extra piece while taking the downgrade on the 6th man. He's done things the right way for us, but I can't help but to think that he make more $$ next year if he's with another team come the deadline and he's also really the only guy we've got that could bring a starting caliber piece back without scratching our big 3.

- Sund's quotes @ the top pretty much rule out any addition of Calderon. Even if he is an upgrade over Bibby, it'd only be a minor one - not enough over a "lateral move" that we'd pull the trigger. It doesn't matter I guess, Calderon's recent injury track record prolly has as much to do with no one touching him than his salary anyway.

My take from this is that any deals we'd make would be more of the "veteran bench help for a 2nd and an expiring" type of deals. Can't say I'm disappointed in that although I do wonder if it'd really get us past the 2nd round.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#7 » by evildallas » Fri Feb 4, 2011 8:17 am

^^^ I agree with your take on the article. As far as what you were hoping for, I don't think we're going to get any true inside info. Unlike Billy Knight, Sund will talk to the media more frequently but I believe he keeps a better lid on real inside information. My reasoning is everyone knew (published rumors) for a month that we were going to draft Shelden Williams and even it being pointed out what a reach he was in the lottery it didn't change Knight's mind. Conversely I don't recall any real insight into our last 2 drafts or the trade for Jamal Crawford until it went down. Unless telling the media something supports his agenda it just isn't happening.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#8 » by parson » Fri Feb 4, 2011 4:20 pm

We won't trade Marvelous because we'd have to start Mo Evans.

Read the article again, Hoopsworld says we don't have any depth at SF. At this point, we couldn't get as much for Marvelous in a trade as he can give us on the court.

Marvelous for Dwight Howard? Sign me up. Truth is, we couldn't get any starting Center for him.
Marvelous for Chris Paul? I'll drive him down to NO. Again, however, we couldn't get any starting PG for him.

Trading him because we're frustrated is dumb. Until we have a better prospect at SF OR until we can trade him for a player who can help us at a position of need, it's foolish to cut off our nose to spite our face.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#9 » by evildallas » Fri Feb 4, 2011 8:29 pm

My reasoning behind trading Marvin Williams is to free up salary to spend elsewhere and because his role isn't as substantial as his salary. Furthermore, I think Josh has shown he can play SF which as early as the start of the season I didn't believe was possible.

If we keep Marvin, I'd like to see a different role for him. I'd like to see move to 6th man and given more scoring responsibility. First of all to get more value from Al, Josh, and Marvin we need a true PG and a system that utilizes him. This will detract a little from Joe, but his money is guaranteed and he should be willing to do the best for the team now. We still run too much iso. It's good to have the ability to go iso when needed, but Joe and Jamal break from the system too quickly it seems. When they do that they marginalize the rest of the team offensive and the meek (Marvin) suffer. Of course there is no guarantee that Marvin could handle this role, but 7-8M for the 5th option on offense in the starting lineup is too much for too little. Bench scorer seems to be a much bigger role for this team and Marvin should embrace that for the good of the team as well.
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Re: Hoopsworld Article on who's expendable. 

Post#10 » by ballislife » Sat Feb 5, 2011 3:18 am

captaincrunk wrote:
ballislife wrote:Marvin + Bibby for Calderon + Julian Wright + future 2nd rounder

or Marvin + ATL 2011 first for Calderon...

... think you guys would consider any of those?

Bibby is better than Calderon...



A few years back, yea... as a shooter... mayyybe... but in terms of running a team efficiently, I really don't think it's close.

Bibby as a starter: 9.6 ppg, 3.7 apg, 44% fg, 0.7 spg
Calderon as a starter: 11.2 ppg, 9.9 apg, 48% fg, 1.3 spg

Considering the crap Calderon has available to pass to on his team, it's hard to believe he can get that many assists. That's not even including the 19 assists he had tonight. Bibby used to be better than Calderon - not anymore.
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