Barkley goes off over Love Snub

[mandurugo]

There has been a lot of players on a lot of bad teams over the past 30 years and none of them have put up the numbers that Love is putting up this year. That argument is crap.

I disagree with you. Kevin Love is a fantasy league MVP, no doubt - he's got awesome numbers for a fantasy team. But in the real league the whole point is whether you are winning or losing the games. That argument is crucial.

Funny, I thought this was a team game

Yeah, it is. And Love is not a big enough star to raise the level of his team's play... hence not an "all-star".

[Krapinsky]

I still keep coming back to this: if Duncan and Love switched teams, wouldn't the teams be closer in the standings? I think the coaches just picked the best players and I've got nothing wrong with that.

[IAWolf]

I still keep coming back to this: if Duncan and Love switched teams, wouldn't the teams be closer in the standings? I think the coaches just picked the best players and I've got nothing wrong with that.

I really don't think so.

[Piecake]

Well, the spurs would probably be worse, but thats because they simply don't have another Center on their roster(But Duncan is a PF!). A front court of Love, McDyess, Blair, and Bonner is just too damn small and unathletic. I guess Splitter counts, but he hardly gets any playing time.

I dont think the wolves would be any better though. Sure, our defense would be better, but our offense and rebounding would definitely be worse, and our team depends heavily on Love's offense and rebounding.

[Krapinsky]

I still keep coming back to this: if Duncan and Love switched teams, wouldn't the teams be closer in the standings? I think the coaches just picked the best players and I've got nothing wrong with that.

I really don't think so.

Well Phil Mackey agrees with you too.

I think you could be right, as it's impossible to say either way, but at the very least I think it somewhat justifies the selection of Duncan (he has a 21+ PER btw). Maybe Love is more deserving but I don't think it's as an outrageous of a snub as some, like sir Charles, are making it out to be.

[RHBullsFan]

he should have been in over Duncan. No way Duncan is having a better year. There are no rules that a good team has to have more than 1 all-star. Magic consistently have just Howard, but that's fine because we have nobody else that deserves to be in.

[big3_8_19_21]

I disagree with you. Kevin Love is a fantasy league MVP, no doubt - he's got awesome numbers for a fantasy team. But in the real league the whole point is whether you are winning or losing the games. That argument is crucial.

Funny, I thought this was a team game

Yeah, it is. And Love is not a big enough star to raise the level of his team's play... hence not an "all-star".

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

[Calinks]

I'm not going to argue that at this point in time I don't think Love is anything close to a closer. He doesn't possess that ability to will his team to wins. In that aspect I don't think he's better than Duncan or any other player on the all-star team. I do think however he should be rewarded for his play and his historical season. Nobody is the league is doing what he does and nobody has done it in decades, that should be recognized.

As the great King once said. Judge on the content of the player and not by the color of their jersey.

[mandurugo]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Wait a minute... are you sure you agree with me? 'Cause as I kept reading it almost sounds like you disagree with me. Weird!

But to be honest, I think you are confusing my position. I'm not arguing that Love is a bad player, or even necessarily a "run of the mill player". But I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect an all-star to be able to make a difference in a team's win-lose record. The wolves record indicates that Love isn't capable of making that difference - I don't see how you can dispute that. They aren't a run of the mill team, they are one of the worst team's in the league. His historic numbers aren't making a lick of difference in their win/loss total. Is this a reasonable criteria for being an all-star (or getting a max contract) - well I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

[Krapinsky]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Well, Allen and Garnett actually were allstars that year and Pierce was hurt. Further, all those players had already proven they could lead winning teams and that year none of their teams were as bad as this years Wolves.

[big3_8_19_21]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Wait a minute... are you sure you agree with me? 'Cause as I kept reading it almost sounds like you disagree with me. Weird!

But to be honest, I think you are confusing my position. I'm not arguing that Love is a bad player, or even necessarily a "run of the mill player". But I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect an all-star to be able to make a difference in a team's win-lose record. The wolves record indicates that Love isn't capable of making that difference - I don't see how you can dispute that. They aren't a run of the mill team, they are one of the worst team's in the league. His historic numbers aren't making a lick of difference in their win/loss total. Is this a reasonable criteria for being an all-star (or getting a max contract) - well I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

Can't dispute that Love isn't making a difference in wins/losses? Well the Wolves have had an incredibly road-heavy first half of the season in which their winning percentage is still higher than last year, though it is still pitiful. Current winning percentage is 23% on the season, whereas it was 18% last season in total. Also, as poor as 11 wins is at this point I think there would DEFINITELY be fewer wins without Love and significantly more blowout losses.

I guess it's all academic at this point now that Love was named Yao's replacement.

[big3_8_19_21]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Well, Allen and Garnett actually were allstars that year and Pierce was hurt. Further, all those players had already proven they could lead winning teams and that year none of their teams were as bad as this years Wolves.

No, none of those teams were as bad as the Wolves, but they were all pretty poor teams, all lottery, and at no fault of the star players. That was the point that I was illustrating. The Wolves' record isn't Love's fault.

[The J Rocka]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Well, Allen and Garnett actually were allstars that year and Pierce was hurt. Further, all those players had already proven they could lead winning teams and that year none of their teams were as bad as this years Wolves.

03-04 Magic were pretty bad & McGrady got in. I think the Wolves are a better team than what they were.

[Zeitgeister]

I agree. Solid argument. It's pretty incredible how a collection of players with bloated stats on bad teams KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were all run of the mill players in 06-07, but somehow all gained the "it" factor simultaneously in 07-08. Did they just DECIDE to become winners once they had other empty stat hogs around them? We may never know.

In addition, I've always thought that the all-star game should just be an intra-squad scrimmage amongst the previous season's champions since they are the ultimate winners. Oh, what's that you say? Took the champs to 7 games in finals you say? Sorry Paul Pierce, you're no Shannon Brown.

Wait a minute... are you sure you agree with me? 'Cause as I kept reading it almost sounds like you disagree with me. Weird!

But to be honest, I think you are confusing my position. I'm not arguing that Love is a bad player, or even necessarily a "run of the mill player". But I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect an all-star to be able to make a difference in a team's win-lose record. The wolves record indicates that Love isn't capable of making that difference - I don't see how you can dispute that. They aren't a run of the mill team, they are one of the worst team's in the league. His historic numbers aren't making a lick of difference in their win/loss total. Is this a reasonable criteria for being an all-star (or getting a max contract) - well I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

It's true, Kevin Love is playing out of his mind, and the Wolves are still a very bad team. I think that is for two reasons:

1. Kevin Love scores his points within the flow of the game and has a low usage rate for the amount of points he scores
2. His teammates are really, really bad.

The Wolves have very little talent outside of Love, and Rambis isn't a good coach. The pace at which they play probably hurts them, and the fact that they don't run many plays for Love. He's not necessarily a guy that is going to create his own offense on a whim but I think he can convert some plays and probably average even a bit more points per game if he's given the ball more. Given the pace we play at, there are a lot of possessions, and a lot of those possessions are going to bad players, not to mention that the Timberwolves turn the ball over way too often so it leads to a lot of extra possessions for the opponent.