[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[Flaming Mo]

Tim Duncan is not a superstar now and the Spurs are the best team in the league. How many stars do they have now?

People say that "stars" win, which is true, when you are talking about "Super-Dooper Stars"

Transcendent players like Kobe & MJ & Shaq the like, who are just way better than their peers,

tend to win in the NBA since it is a 5 on 5 league.

Carmelo is not a "star" like MJ or Kobe or Shaq. He is a volume scorer who has been out of the first round once in his life.

Well, if you say that Duncan isnt a superstar right now then I guess there is not much to add here... the Spurs have Parker who is still playing like an all star, Ginobili just got voted into the all star game, Jefferson is a former 20+ scorer... its not like the Spurs are trodding out some scrubs there. You need talent in this league and right now we dont have enough.

Kobe and Shaq couldnt win titles on their own, MJ couldnt win titles on their own - he had an unbelievable talent in Pippen next to him. Players like Duncan who arguably won games being the one superstar on their team are extremely rare.

So give an alternative on what to do?! Sign a bunch of average players for whom we will likely have to overpay anyways?? Keep everyone and just add a big like Dalembert or Kendrick Perkins? I dont think this is enough. I hoped it would be but so far this season where the current group can prove how good they are it doesnt look like it...

[Hitman33]

So they got rich by making decisions like passing on 20 MM dollar savings and going for nothing instead? Seems legit.

You don't become a billionaire by looking for ways to save $20 million.

[vallen]

To all of you who think this is too good to be true, do not underestimate the $20 million that Denver will be saving in salaries/luxury tax payments if they do this deal. That is the most important part of the deal and probably the main reason they would pull this trigger. Who else is going to give them as much savings or a player so much better than chandler that is worth bypassing $20 million in cash savings?

No. The Kroenkes are BILLIONAIRES.

They did not get to be billionaires by being stupid & they are NOT going to trade their most valuable asset JUST to save 20 million dollars.

Billionaires also dont stay billionaires by holding onto players for spite, rather then save 20 mill and grab a couple assets. I agree, I dont think the reported package is accurate, but 20 million is significant for any business moving forward. And Melo probably isnt their biggest asset anymore anyway. Hes losing more value by the minute, while refusing that extension. Billionaires dont let their assets turn into a big fat Zero.........

[Flaming Mo]

I mean seriously, Melo and Amare arent some dumb chuckers who dont do anything else than score. They have elevated their teams, are playoff proven and clutch. Both are in the prime of their careers. You give big money to such players, not to guys over 30 or who post empty numbers on bad teams. Melo brought Denver back on the map almost all by himself, people hold that first round thing against him. Well, without him they would have been looking at lottery picks in january.

If the Knicks get Melo, we are looking at the following group:

PG - Raymond Felton
SG - Landry Fields
SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Amare Stoudemire
C - Timofey Mozgov

with Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari as your top two backups. Add in a couple of minimun signings and a first rounder. This team contends in the Eastern Conference and with chemistry it could definitely win a championship. You got rebounders, passers, scoring, post play, size, balance, handlers... you got everything you look for on this team!

[vallen]

So they got rich by making decisions like passing on 20 MM dollar savings and going for nothing instead? Seems legit.

You don't become a billionaire by looking for ways to save $20 million.

I work for Billionaires who havent given a pay raise for 2 years, possibly going on 3, just so they can save millions. you have no idea what your saying.

You dont STAY a billionaire by throwing away more money then your going to have coming in. And with most basketball teams spending more then they have coming in, that will probably apply to a team thats losing its franchise player.

[captain subtext]

So they got rich by making decisions like passing on 20 MM dollar savings and going for nothing instead? Seems legit.

You don't become a billionaire by looking for ways to save $20 million.

You don't stay a billionaire by passing on chances like that.

[NoLayupRule]

Ok, I get that he's not the perfect player in every single way but some people can only see the very worst things. They can only smell poop.

We are talking about trading away Chandler, curry and Randolph. Not exactly defensive juggernauts. Yeah, chandler can play d. I love the kids skills. But he's not enough. And losing him isn't going to make the difference.

Carmelo is one of the top three to five scorers in the league. When amare was being discussed he was considered a lesser player. When he got here he grew into an MVP candidate overnight.

Carmelo has at least that level of potential. Higher even. Carmelo has been an MVP candidate several times and has never played with anyone as good as Amare.

He's played and thrived with Dantoni on the international stagehand this system will allow him to play to his strengths.

It'll take some time for things to work as well as they can but simply adding an offensive weapon like Carmelo will take so much pressure off Amare and Felton that we won't see that freelancing one vs five stuff. Right now amare gets double or triple teamed and the paint gets packed and we have to rely on guys who mostly can't make their own shot so are easy to recover to. Having Carmelo gives us a second target of elite level. Were not talking about dishing to Fields or Chandler here. Were talking about Carmelo Anthony. The guy can score people! Last game we put up like 4 points over 8 to 10 mins and lost by two. That won't happen again.

[Hitman33]

Well, if you say that Duncan isnt a superstar right now then I guess there is not much to add here... the Spurs have Parker who is still playing like an all star, Ginobili just got voted into the all star game, Jefferson is a former 20+ scorer... its not like the Spurs are trodding out some scrubs there. You need talent in this league and right now we dont have enough.

Kobe and Shaq couldnt win titles on their own, MJ couldnt win titles on their own - he had an unbelievable talent in Pippen next to him. Players like Duncan who arguably won games being the one superstar on their team are extremely rare.

So give an alternative on what to do?! Sign a bunch of average players for whom we will likely have to overpay anyways?? Keep everyone and just add a big like Dalembert or Kendrick Perkins? I dont think this is enough. I hoped it would be but so far this season where the current group can prove how good they are it doesnt look like it...

Mo, I am not saying that you don't need talent to win in the NBA. You NEED talent.

My alternative is not to sign "a bunch of average players."

My alternative is to take the Melo fanboy glasses off and address the teams true needs.

We have a small forward. He is 6'11" and he is 22 and he is averaging 16 points on the best TS% on the team & he is on his way to superstardom & anyone with two eyes can see that he has been basically unstoppable since he returned from his injury.

And he makes $3 million.

[br7knicks]

.

[br7knicks]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

yeah, kobe has never won a championship

solid argument.

but it's actually not.

[gavran]

I mean seriously, Melo and Amare arent some dumb chuckers who dont do anything else than score. They have elevated their teams, are playoff proven and clutch. Both are in the prime of their careers. You give big money to such players, not to guys over 30 or who post empty numbers on bad teams. Melo brought Denver back on the map almost all by himself, people hold that first round thing against him. Well, without him they would have been looking at lottery picks in january.

If the Knicks get Melo, we are looking at the following group:

PG - Raymond Felton
SG - Landry Fields
SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Amare Stoudemire
C - Timofey Mozgov

with Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari as your top two backups. Add in a couple of minimun signings and a first rounder. This team contends in the Eastern Conference and with chemistry it could definitely win a championship. You got rebounders, passers, scoring, post play, size, balance, handlers... you got everything you look for on this team!

Agreed 100%. I'm not a huge Melo guy, but that starting lineup is very dangerous (especially if Moz can become consistent player). elo means no more triple teaming for Amar'e, amking everybody's life easier. Gallo can be the primarly ballhandler for the second unit, that means Douglas can focus on thinkg he's capable of doing. Then the Knicks would have Turiaf as their 8th man, and two dead-eye shooters in Williams and Walker who can play whenever they are needed to.

[Hitman33]

You don't stay a billionaire by passing on chances like that.

No, that is exactly how you stay a billionaire. That would be raping by the Knicks and you know it. Do you really think you stay a billionaire by passing on opportunities to get raped?

Why would they trade for Wilson Chandler when he is going to be looking for a huge contract in 5 months and they don't even want him to begin with?

[BelieveTheDream]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

yeah, kobe has never won a championship

solid argument.

but it's actually not.

ew dude I almost vomited from that picture haha was that necessary

[Hitman33]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

yeah, kobe has never won a championship

solid argument.

but it's actually not.

So let me get this straight.

I ask how many stars the Spurs have & the Pistons have.

& state that you win as a team.

&

you respond with 'Kobe has never won a championship' & a girl in a bikini standing next to a toilet with feces floating in the water of the bowl.

[Brooklyn718]

sooo.....what does the proposed trade do to Gallinari? will he start or make a powerful bench?

Mozgov
Amare
Melo
Fields
Felton

bench: SF- Gallinari,C- Turiaf,PF- S. Williams,SG- B. Walker,PG- T. Douglas
or

Amare
Melo
Gallinari
FIelds
Felton

bench: C- Mozgov, PF- Turiaf, SF- S. Williams, SG- B. Walker, PG-Douglas

good problem to have...I would rather Mozgov start at center for us though

[captain subtext]

Listen, I didn't buy for a long time that we are going to make a deal with Chandler as the centerpiece (exactly for the RFA reason). But what incentive does Donnie have to offer anything more at this point?

Denver has badly overplayed their hand. BADLY! They are in a corner and at that point they probably should take the raping over getting killed.
Get the savings, get a pick, get a very good player under the age of 25, get rid of Harrington. It's not sexy but it's your own fault for stalling it as long as you did. Take it or get nothing, pay your lux tax, pay Harrington.

This will drag out til deadline day, I'm sure of that. In the end there's only one smart choice to make.

[fresko024]

You don't stay a billionaire by passing on chances like that.

No, that is exactly how you stay a billionaire. That would be raping by the Knicks and you know it. Do you really think you stay a billionaire by passing on opportunities to get raped?

Why would they trade for Wilson Chandler when he is going to be looking for a huge contract in 5 months and they don't even want him to begin with?

The Knicks have all the leverage..They don't have to resign Chandler if they don't want to but if I'm a wealthy team owner, i look at what happened with the Cavs and I try to minimize my losses, unfortunately the window to do that for Denver has closed a while ago, now they're gonna have to take what we're offering or lose Melo for close to nothing in the offseason...i think any smart person will make the trade...

[jstudabaka]

If this deal goes down as reported, Chandler + Randolph + Curry for Melo, it's a slam-dunk, grand slam out-of-the-park for Donnie.

Would the 1st round pick be Minnesota's own pick? That's the only real upside I see for Denver, getting a high pick. If so, lol Kahn. He's the definition of a useful idiot.

[That Knicker]

Well, they are also arguably two of the 10 best players in the NBA, are proven playoff performers, clutch and in the prime of their careers. The NBA is a stars league, like it or not...

Let's see -

1. Kobe/LeBron
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Paul
4. D-Will
5. Amar'e
6. Melo

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Priggy Smalls]

how people make these threads without offering alternatives blows the mind. and can someone remind me which kobe was a transcendent star like jordan and shaq? becuase it certainly wasn't kobe bryant.