[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

KnickelandDime · Post #901 » by **KnickelandDime** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 10:50 pm

Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

HighRyzer83 · Post #902 » by **HighRyzer83** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 10:51 pm

Hitman33 wrote:Everyone knows he isn't giving 100%....lets sign him to max money.

No wonder Isiah was so popular on these boards back in the day.

Im with you.

I feel like this trade is being fueled by impulsive, shortsighted people like Dolan/Isiah who are willing to throw money bags at big names rather than focusing on efficiency and team needs, masquerading it as "star power".

Having said that I have no problem offering Melo Max FA contract under the new CBA. But the extension via trade would make Melo the 2nd highest paid in the league. The knicks will be the joke of the NBA again resorting to their old ways of giving flawed players ridiculous contracts, it will be all over the media. I can't believe people are not even considering that aspect of cap hell. its a complete deal breaker. Again we could avoid this catastrophe and still reach all of our objectives if we stay patient for another 3 weeks. Its worth it.

KnickelandDime · Post #903 » by **KnickelandDime** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 10:57 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:
Hitman33 wrote:Everyone knows he isn't giving 100%....lets sign him to max money.

No wonder Isiah was so popular on these boards back in the day.

Im with you.

I feel like this trade is being fueled by impulsive, shortsighted people like Dolan/Isiah who are willing to throw money bags at big names rather than focusing on efficiency and team needs, masquerading it as "star power".

Having said that I have no problem offering Melo Max FA contract under the new CBA. But the extension via trade would make Melo the 2nd highest paid in the league. The knicks will be the joke of the NBA again resorting to their old ways of giving flawed players ridiculous contracts, it will be all over the media. I can't believe people are not even considering that aspect of cap hell. its a complete deal breaker. Again we could avoid this catastrophe and still reach all of our objectives if we stay patient for another 3 weeks. Its worth it.

I don't understand the distinction between him getting 18 and 20 million next year. Either way we are over the cap for at least 4 years (assuming Felton or Gallo get extensions). And come on, Melo is not Z-Bo or Marbury or Crawford or any of those other Isiah era chucking black holes. The man has led a supporting cast that has at times been mediocre to the playoffs every year. He's the definition of clutch; he and Amare playing next to each other would be every coach's nightmare to match up with.

Post #904 » by **GONYK** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:03 pm

KnickelandDime wrote:Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

Why the hell would we help the Bulls?

KnickelandDime · Post #905 » by **KnickelandDime** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:06 pm

GONYK wrote:
KnickelandDime wrote:Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

Why the hell would we help the Bulls?

It's more like they'd be helping us facillitate a Melo deal. I don't think Douglas is going to be a huge difference maker for them but he would a) fit their team's needs, b) fit their system and c) play well next to Rose.

VirginiaKnickFan · Post #906 » by **VirginiaKnickFan** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:08 pm

GONYK wrote:
KnickelandDime wrote:Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

Why the hell would we help the Bulls?

Besides the fact that DougLoss as you've named him wouldn't in all probably net a 1st rd pick from anyone.

Subway Token · Post #907 » by **Subway Token** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:10 pm

How would Douglas help the Bulls? :lol:

KnickelandDime · Post #908 » by **KnickelandDime** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:11 pm

VirginiaKnickFan wrote:
GONYK wrote:
KnickelandDime wrote:Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

Why the hell would we help the Bulls?

Besides the fact that DougLoss as you've named him wouldn't in all probably net a 1st rd pick from anyone.

The Bulls pick should be a mid 20's pick. It depends on how desperate they get for a better backup point (he would do in their system) and a scoring 2 guard.

Post #909 » by **NoLayupRule** » Sun Feb 6, 2011 11:23 pm

KnickelandDime wrote:Who thinks Douglas could net a late 1st pick from a contender in desperate need of a PG/SG? I think we should talk to the Bulls and see if he's someone they'd be interested in.

why? hes far more valuable to us as a backup guard than any late pick in a crap draft will be anytime soon

some people just want to move for pick for the sake of doing so

right now it doesnt seem like we need to move him to get carmelo so again, why?

Starksfor3 · Post #910 » by **Starksfor3** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 12:03 am

I just don't see how Denver can explain this trade to their fanbase as currently reported. It's going to come down to the trade deadline and Denver will have to decide whether to bite the bullet with this deal or try making one last run in the playoffs (fruitless IMO).

HighRyzer83 · Post #911 » by **HighRyzer83** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 12:34 am

KnickelandDime wrote:
HighRyzer83 wrote:
Hitman33 wrote:Everyone knows he isn't giving 100%....lets sign him to max money.

No wonder Isiah was so popular on these boards back in the day.

Im with you.

I feel like this trade is being fueled by impulsive, shortsighted people like Dolan/Isiah who are willing to throw money bags at big names rather than focusing on efficiency and team needs, masquerading it as "star power".

Having said that I have no problem offering Melo Max FA contract under the new CBA. But the extension via trade would make Melo the 2nd highest paid in the league. The knicks will be the joke of the NBA again resorting to their old ways of giving flawed players ridiculous contracts, it will be all over the media. I can't believe people are not even considering that aspect of cap hell. its a complete deal breaker. Again we could avoid this catastrophe and still reach all of our objectives if we stay patient for another 3 weeks. Its worth it.

I don't understand the distinction between him getting 18 and 20 million next year. Either way we are over the cap for at least 4 years (assuming Felton or Gallo get extensions). And come on, Melo is not Z-Bo or Marbury or Crawford or any of those other Isiah era chucking black holes. The man has led a supporting cast that has at times been mediocre to the playoffs every year. He's the definition of clutch; he and Amare playing next to each other would be every coach's nightmare to match up with.

You really think all of Melo's advisers, fans, analysts, etc, are insisting he should take the extension instead of opting for FA if the difference is only 2 million? Its more like a healthy 4-5 mil annually. Thats about Gallo + Douglas + Fields collective current salaries to put it in perspective. Keeping in mind, next year's CBA FA max would probably be even lower than the current (perhaps remain the same but certainly not higher).
Melo's extension is no joke, and should be avoided if possible, which it is.

Post #912 » by **moocow007** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 12:46 am

Melo for that deal would be a steal, that extension doesnt matter. Hed still be more valuable that anything the Knicks can give up

tangotai · Post #913 » by **tangotai** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:04 am

moocow007 wrote:Melo for that deal would be a steal, that extension doesnt matter. Hed still be more valuable that anything the Knicks can give up

First, thanks Moo for locking the game thread... I was sick of those guys going back and forth over Gallo and Chandler. I wish you had clamped down even earlier.

Now, about Melo, any deal we can swing in which we keep our core of Amare, Gallo, Fields and Mozgov, is a win for us. DW has played this brillintly so far and he will not flinch... either we make a deal that makes sense for our team going forward... or we wait until FA.

What I find fascinating is the IRONY of this deal. Now Denver has to consider walking away from 20 Million ... right now this year... about the same that Melo would walk away from over 5 years. It is such sweet justice. The table has been completely turned around. Gotta love it.

Also, Fat Eddy will be the grease that fleeces the Nugget ... how appropriate that his contract is the grease (get it ... Big Mac and all... grease) to make the deal palatable (oh did I just type that) for the Nugs.

Poetic justice if ever there was such a thing!

Ray Williams · Post #914 » by **Ray Williams** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:08 am

This is a stars league like it or not.Dallas should have won against Miami but the refs kissed Wades a$$ and Miami won their undeserved championship.For those argueing against getting Melo because of the extension,please come up with an alternative plan if we lose out on getting him.

Post #915 » by **duetta** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:28 am

"Denver doesn't have much of a choice," said one Knicks source. "Carmelo has told them since the summer that he wants to end up in New York."

(snip)

The Knicks remain patient in their dealings with Anthony because they are convinced they can get him this summer via free agency. That's why Walsh is reluctant is to part with either Danilo Gallinari or rookie Landry Fields, who scored a career-high 25 points with 10 rebounds as the Knicks improved to 26-24.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... ks_pa.html

adog50 · Post #916 » by **adog50** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:33 am

If Denver lets him walk there going to be the most dumbest Franchise ever. We will have Melo Within the next 2 Weeks. Mark My word.

Post #917 » by **NoLayupRule** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:42 am

I feel badly for the nuggests fans. I can imagine this misery

shrink · Post #918 » by **shrink** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:48 am

MIN's local beatwriter twittered this:

Yes, #Timberwolves have always had interest in A. Randolph, would prefer to limit deal to one of their firsts for him w/out Curry or Corey

then later this.

Sounds like Wolves are talking deals with multiple teams. And they'd like to get something for Corey before he goes into free agency

HighRyzer83 · Post #919 » by **HighRyzer83** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:56 am

moocow007 wrote:Melo for that deal would be a steal, that extension doesnt matter. Hed still be more valuable that anything the Knicks can give up

Thats not the point. You're playing checkers with chess pieces. Why jump and help them out when a checkmate is eminent if we just stay patient and be confident

shrink · Post #920 » by **shrink** » Mon Feb 7, 2011 1:59 am

Let me give you a little info on MIN's side here.

1. First, to clear up some misconceptions, MIN can not trade it's own pick, since it's owned by LAC, and even if it wasn't, it'd violate the Stepian Rule. Any pick they include must either be UTA (top 16 protected) or MEM (top 14). Very doubtful they'd trade their own first in 2014.

2. The original AR deal was probably something like Telfair + UTA 1st for AR, or Ridnour for AR .. perhaps with some small player included with the cash to buy him out. Adding Brewer and that huge chunk of cap space is a big deal.

3. Four weeks ago, adding Corey Brewer might not have been a big deal, since MIN didn't pick up his option. However, he's been playing much better, and is their starting SG. It's becoming more likely MIN may try to move Webster and keep Brewer, who they still have rights on.

4. Paying MIN $3 mil to use their $11.7 mil cap space to take Curry is not fair value. It may pay for the cash to buy him out, but $11.7 mil in cap space is a valuable trade asset, and giving it up here - for nothing - is a big lost opportunity cost .. especially when NYK is getting the benefit for saving DEN close to $20 million dollars.

Finally, a good deal can be worked out for all three teams, because so many pieces are more valuable elsewhere. However, no team is without risks here. DEN may lose Melo for nothing. MIN could be replaced if they ask too much, by two other teams that have the finances (SAC, CLE). And for NYK, it guarantees they get Melo locked in for several years. Nobody knows 100% what might happen this summer, even Melo. Moreover, he'd help with this year's play-offs and generate excitement and more revenue.

Right now, if NYK offered this deal to MIN, threatening to go to SAC or CLE if they didn't agree, I'd hand them their telephone numbers. MIN is saddling way too much of the price to get NYK Melo that AR alone would cover it, and I'd walk away. However, since Melo can be a historic part of NYK's future, I don't think it would be hard for the Knicks to throw a little more incentive MIN's way.