[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[johnnywishbone]

Why would I want to give up assets for a player for 30 games when he's made it clear that he wants to go home? Maybe you would do it Johnny but I wouldn't. And again, why would two GM's share my opinion on Melo? This is the mistake that we can make by generalizing human beings. Melo strikes me as the type that wouldn't appreciate going to a rental situation. Did you see his reaction when he thought he was traded to the Nets? You need fire/desire/happiness to win. Why would I want a player who genuinely wants to be home already?

And as far as the Minny deal -the fans don't have a huge issue with it. They just want the deal sweeten up. And again, this deal is assuming that they have exhausted all other possibilities throughout the league to get value for their "17 days of cap space".

You keep bring up Harrington but this Minny deal saves them a ton more. There is no reason for us to add 30 more million in savings totaling 53 million when we can wait for free agency. That's what I would do if I were DW...

In my Dallas / Denver deal they send two expiring contract (one guy injured for the season) for Carmelo and Beaubois who is their 3rd string PG. Mark Cuban has proven he is willing to do what it takes to win it all. Plus he'd have a shot at signing Melo even if it was slim. And if he can't sign him just extend and trade him to NY this summer for Wil or Gallo. We'll need to clear out cap to sign Melo this Summer anyway.

The Minny deal does not save them more. No way. You guys are talking 25 million in savings? Al's contract is more than that by itself.

That's not true. Only the next 2 years are fully guaranteed for Al, the last two are only guaranteed for 50%. He's owed like 20ish mil if he's cut after next season while this trade would save them that 25 mil this year. Check the exact numbers on Al's deal but either way it's not much more than this trade and the savings wouldn't be as immediate.

A source confirmed Tuesday night to FanHouse the Nuggets will sign free-agent forward Al Harrington to a five-year, $33.4 million contract. There are no option years in the deal in which the Nuggets will use their full mid-level exception.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/14/harr ... tear-deal/

This might not be right but It's what I'm working off of.

[NBA Fan 1234]

In my Dallas / Denver deal they send two expiring contract (one guy injured for the season) for Carmelo and Beaubois who is their 3rd string PG. Mark Cuban has proven he is willing to do what it takes to win it all. Plus he'd have a shot at signing Melo even if it was slim. And if he can't sign him just extend and trade him to NY this summer for Wil or Gallo. We'll need to clear out cap to sign Melo this Summer anyway.

The Minny deal does not save them more. No way. You guys are talking 25 million in savings? Al's contract is more than that by itself.

That's not true. Only the next 2 years are fully guaranteed for Al, the last two are only guaranteed for 50%. He's owed like 20ish mil if he's cut after next season while this trade would save them that 25 mil this year. Check the exact numbers on Al's deal but either way it's not much more than this trade and the savings wouldn't be as immediate.

A source confirmed Tuesday night to FanHouse the Nuggets will sign free-agent forward Al Harrington to a five-year, $33.4 million contract. There are no option years in the deal in which the Nuggets will use their full mid-level exception.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/14/harr ... tear-deal/

This might not be right but It's what I'm working off of.

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

[johnnywishbone]

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

Sorry, I'm new to that site but:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... uggets.jsp

Doesn't that say Al is fully paid in 2014/2015? It says salary without options is equal to his contract (only player under contract that year)?

[Context]

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

Sorry, I'm new to that site but:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... uggets.jsp

Doesn't that say Al is fully paid in 2014/2015? It says salary without options is equal to his contract (only player under contract that year)?

Put your mouse over his name and you will see it...

[tangotai]

ibrahim wrote:
"So are you the grand old wise one now? Are you our new leader?

Get real.... DW may in theory be running the knicks but the owner in reality has the last say and it just so happens he has a job extension hanging over DW's head. And if he wants DW who works for him to trade away Fields and Chandler Walsh is going to do it. Right now he is buying time and giving lowballing the nuggets a try. He's got a couple of weeks to do so. But the deal is going to get done and Fields or Gallo or even Mozgov isn't going to get in the way of what the owner wants.You also act as if those that would prefer to do the deal now or at the trade deadline would not want to try and give as little as possible or sign him outright in the summer IF...... Wait for it..... They knew it was a sure thing!!!! And nothing in sports is a sure thing. Now unless you know Anthony personally or his wife or are Leon rose's nephew which we can all assume you aren't you can't speak as some all seeing overlord of what Carmelo wants regardless of reports. So interject your opinion and don't try and come off as some evil wizard "sitting back reading what other posters write" and laughing to yourself....bwaaahhaaaahahaa."

-------------------------------
Well well well ... I certainly have no family connections... but it seems you are privy to what Dolan is thinking and telling Walsh. Hats off to you for knowing that Dolan is telling Walsh to trade Fields or Gallo if he has to to get Melo at the trade deadling....

As for "grand old wise one " and "leader".... look I'm just a life long Knick fan who really enjoys reading and getting educated on this board.

Time will tell who is the fool and who is wise... and how old do I have to be to be "old" in your eyes anyway?

Time will tell .... keep on postin Ibrahim.... you make me laugh and for that I am very grateful.

[towelie]

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

Sorry, I'm new to that site but:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... uggets.jsp

Doesn't that say Al is fully paid in 2014/2015? It says salary without options is equal to his contract (only player under contract that year)?

Gray text means partially guaranteed. Mouseover player name to find out details.

[knicks742]

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

Sorry, I'm new to that site but:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... uggets.jsp

Doesn't that say Al is fully paid in 2014/2015? It says salary without options is equal to his contract (only player under contract that year)?

Put your mouse over his name (or anyone else's) and it gives you details (options, bonuses, etc) for the player's contract. Shamsports is a very reliable website and sham posts in the bulls board. His contract is only 50% guaranteed the last 2 years which is why a bunch of us were ok with taking him, if need be, but he is the last minute concession we make, not Fields, Gallo or Mozzy.

[johnnywishbone]

Thank you for finally understanding my point. And if you are Walsh is it really worth taking back Harrington's contract? That's why I think if you are Walsh you don't want a deal to get done so that you can go for Melo in free agency. If Dallas is willing to do a rental that would be the best situation for the Nuggets and Knicks.

It's not a better offer:

Harrington's total contract is about 20.1 million+ 1.9 million for the remainder of this season..
Your Dallas deal cost Denver 7.9 million in Luxury tax.

That's a net savings of: 14 million compared to 23 million

I believe your numbers are off. Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

[Context]

I believe your numbers are off. Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

If my number are off- than please clarify it for me

[knicks742]

I believe your numbers are off. Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

Kahn is not looking to keep collecting low first round picks. His only motivation in this deal is to get AR for cheap. Taking on Eddy's deal which will cost $4 million in cash for his salary and no luxury tax implications to Minny is why he is willing to do that. We pull AR from the deal and he walks away.

[johnnywishbone]

Shamsports says the final two years are only 50% guaranteed.

Sorry, I'm new to that site but:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... uggets.jsp

Doesn't that say Al is fully paid in 2014/2015? It says salary without options is equal to his contract (only player under contract that year)?

Put your mouse over his name (or anyone else's) and it gives you details (options, bonuses, etc) for the player's contract. Shamsports is a very reliable website and sham posts in the bulls board. His contract is only 50% guaranteed the last 2 years which is why a bunch of us were ok with taking him, if need be, but he is the last minute concession we make, not Fields, Gallo or Mozzy.

Oh, OK thanks I see it now. So, getting rid of Al would save them around 20M in future obligations. But if they get Beaubois they'd be in a better position to get rid of Billups which would be another 11 million in savings. But to be fair they can dump him no matter what they do.

As an aside to everyone on Al Harrngton, this isn't all made up fantasy on my part. If you guys recall this was a supposed sticking point in Nuggets/Nets negotiations.

[ibraheim718]

ibrahim wrote:
"So are you the grand old wise one now? Are you our new leader?

Get real.... DW may in theory be running the knicks but the owner in reality has the last say and it just so happens he has a job extension hanging over DW's head. And if he wants DW who works for him to trade away Fields and Chandler Walsh is going to do it. Right now he is buying time and giving lowballing the nuggets a try. He's got a couple of weeks to do so. But the deal is going to get done and Fields or Gallo or even Mozgov isn't going to get in the way of what the owner wants.You also act as if those that would prefer to do the deal now or at the trade deadline would not want to try and give as little as possible or sign him outright in the summer IF...... Wait for it..... They knew it was a sure thing!!!! And nothing in sports is a sure thing. Now unless you know Anthony personally or his wife or are Leon rose's nephew which we can all assume you aren't you can't speak as some all seeing overlord of what Carmelo wants regardless of reports. So interject your opinion and don't try and come off as some evil wizard "sitting back reading what other posters write" and laughing to yourself....bwaaahhaaaahahaa."

-------------------------------
Well well well ... I certainly have no family connections... but it seems you are privy to what Dolan is thinking and telling Walsh. Hats off to you for knowing that Dolan is telling Walsh to trade Fields or Gallo if he has to to get Melo at the trade deadling....

As for "grand old wise one " and "leader".... look I'm just a life long Knick fan who really enjoys reading and getting educated on this board.

Time will tell who is the fool and who is wise... and hey old do I have to be to be "old" in your eyes anyway?

Time will tell .... keep on postin Ibrahim.... you make me laugh and for that I am very grateful.

I never said it was Dolan that IS telling Walsh to include Fields or Gallinari I said IF Dolan is telling him to do that Walsh WILL do it. I also don't think I as a lifelong Knicks fan would jump off a bridge if Fields or Gallinari were included in the deal. We have three draft picks next year and have significantly upgraded our player personnel department which can do some major work in the draft if their aims are targeted. We could conceivably trump the fields pick. Heck we could even replace Gallinari ( I even have a player in mind). BUT.... And here's the big BUT.... there isn't a chance in hell we find a player close to the caliber of Melo.

[johnnywishbone]

I believe your numbers are off. Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

If my number are off- than please clarify it for me

Yeah, I'll concede that you are right on the savings differential with Al. But is that really all they can get for Melo?

If you guys are right and that's what happens then it really is amateur hour in Denver.

ttyl.

[knicks742]

Oh, OK thanks I see it now. So, getting rid of Al would save them around 20M in future obligations. But if they get Beaubois they'd be in a better position to get rid of Billups which would be another 11 million in savings. But to be fair they can dump him no matter what they do.

As an aside to everyone on Al Harrngton, this isn't all made up fantasy on my part. If you guys recall this was a supposed sticking point in Nuggets/Nets negotiations.

I am not sure why you keep bringing up Beaubois as an incentive to get rid of Billups. Lawson is their point guard of the future and, IF, they trade Billups, he will end up taking up that starting point guard spot and the minutes. Having a backup point guard or not is not going to stop them from trading Billups, if that's what they want to do.

Now, of course, Beaubois can be attractive as a cheap asset to have and eventually trade but they are not holding on to Billups because they don't have a backup point guard for the future.

[Context]

Yeah, I'll concede that you are right on the savings differential with Al. But is that really all they can get for Melo?

If you guys are right and that's what happens then it really is amateur hour in Denver.

ttyl.

Amateur hour started last summer. Denver's mistake was NOT trading Melo in the summer. Their best chance to get value was then. With all of the reports about where is heart truly lies. The Knicks having the cap space to sign him outright. Three weeks prior to the deadline. His agents recently making it clear that he will only sign an extension with NY. And finally an avenue to save 23 million for starters.... Hey- don't blame the Knick fan -blame the Denver front office...

[tangotai]

ibrahim wrote:
"So are you the grand old wise one now? Are you our new leader?

Get real.... DW may in theory be running the knicks but the owner in reality has the last say and it just so happens he has a job extension hanging over DW's head. And if he wants DW who works for him to trade away Fields and Chandler Walsh is going to do it. Right now he is buying time and giving lowballing the nuggets a try. He's got a couple of weeks to do so. But the deal is going to get done and Fields or Gallo or even Mozgov isn't going to get in the way of what the owner wants.You also act as if those that would prefer to do the deal now or at the trade deadline would not want to try and give as little as possible or sign him outright in the summer IF...... Wait for it..... They knew it was a sure thing!!!! And nothing in sports is a sure thing. Now unless you know Anthony personally or his wife or are Leon rose's nephew which we can all assume you aren't you can't speak as some all seeing overlord of what Carmelo wants regardless of reports. So interject your opinion and don't try and come off as some evil wizard "sitting back reading what other posters write" and laughing to yourself....bwaaahhaaaahahaa."

-------------------------------
Well well well ... I certainly have no family connections... but it seems you are privy to what Dolan is thinking and telling Walsh. Hats off to you for knowing that Dolan is telling Walsh to trade Fields or Gallo if he has to to get Melo at the trade deadling....

As for "grand old wise one " and "leader".... look I'm just a life long Knick fan who really enjoys reading and getting educated on this board.

Time will tell who is the fool and who is wise... and hey old do I have to be to be "old" in your eyes anyway?

Time will tell .... keep on postin Ibrahim.... you make me laugh and for that I am very grateful.

I never said it was Dolan that IS telling Walsh to include Fields or Gallinari I said IF Dolan is telling him to do that Walsh WILL do it. I also don't think I as a lifelong Knicks fan would jump off a bridge if Fields or Gallinari were included in the deal. We have three draft picks next year and have significantly upgraded our player personnel department which can do some major work in the draft if their aims are targeted. We could conceivably trump the fields pick. Heck we could even replace Gallinari ( I even have a player in mind). BUT.... And here's the big BUT.... there isn't a chance in hell we find a player close to the caliber of Melo.

Wrong: We have 2 draft picks in the upcoming draft... currently #17 in the 1st round and #37 in the second round. We traded our 2nd rounder to LA to get TD on draft day remember...

The draft is by all accounts one of the weaker ones in recent memory... but you suggest that at #17 or even in the second round we might even do better than the Fields pick.

And you think we might even replace Gallo....

Ibrahim... why aren't you telling Dolan this directly... or better yet, get in touch with Isiah T..
They need this info ASAP...
LMFAO

How old are you? 16? Go back to school, get an education, learn how to think rationally and then come back and make some sensible arguments.....P L E A S E!

[kosmovitelli]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

I already explained that page 56. Curry has a different payment schedule allowing him to receive 50% of his salary in july but it has no impact on his trade value.

As an example, if a team played 50 games and one of its player already received 80% of his salary (80% of his salary means payment for approx 65 games) and that player is traded then his new team would have to reimburse the player's former team for all the games he was already paid for and didn't play (15 games). No team can pay a player for games he will play for his new team (outside of the $3 million cash allowed in trades).

[Context]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

I already explained that page 56. Curry has a different payment schedule allowing him to receive 50% of his salary in july but it has no impact on his trade value.

As an example, if a team played 50 games and one of its player already received 80% of his salary (80% of his salary means payment for approx 65 games) and that player is traded then his new team would have to reimburse the player's former team for all the games he was already paid for and didn't play (15 games). No team can pay a player for games he will play for his new team (outside of the $3 million cash allowed in trades).

Kos, I believe you... I just want to read more about this... Do you have a general link on how salaries work when a player is traded? Thanks...

[shrink]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

Also heard that Knicks could give Minny $3M to offset the acquisition costs of Curry.

If that all is true or close to true -- then you are looking at a trade of Brewer & #1 pick for Randolph which isn't that far out of reach in my mind. I think Walsh still places a HIGH VALUE on AR despite Mike's use of the kid and I've always felt moving him for a #1 pick by itself was selling cheaply.

You can't wipe it away with $3 mil cash, because the $11 mil in cap space has value as a trade asset.

[DLTGWH]

taking back harrington would prevent us from having a shot at a third star in 2012. Just saying.