[Camelo Thread Part 15] - Slim Chance of LA/DEN Deal

[NySpartan4]

Just a question...is he?
Dont get me wrong. I would LOVE to have Carmelo on our team. I just had a few questions. Is he an elite player? Having him on our team, would it take us to the next level? Is he having an off year this year or his averages are about the same every year?

Yes he can score. No denying that. Almost 25 points a game. But he's an awful 3 point shooter at a 30%. His assist to turnover ratio is 1:1 (128 - 128). although he's a good rebounder, he is not much of a blocker..or a good defensive player. I am basing all of this on this year's statistics.

Would he do better wearing the Knicks uniform? Having him would be lethal in our offense but only in scoring. Guess that should be fine with D'Antoni..right?

Mods, please dont lock this thread. If you do feel like submerging in the Melo to the Knicks thread, that's okay. Though this is a different topic regarding the same person.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

LOL No one thought Rondo was gonna be good out of Kentucky. He was trash in college. And Grainger really? Hes a perennial loser and 40% shooter. IF anything they shoulda took Bynum whos hurt every single year anyway. Should we bring up all Donnies draft day disasters. He took Shawne Williams over Rondo. Or when he took Fred Jones over guys like Prince and Boozer. I hate to admit it but Isiahs draft track record blows Donnie's away.

I wouldn't say that it "blows Donnie's away", but I will agree that Isiah's drafting is the least of my problems with him.

P.S. Did you really just try to say that Isiah passing on Rondo wasn't a mistake and then two lines later say that Walsh passing on Rondo was a disaster? Balkman over Rondo is equivalent to Williams over Rondo. If you think one is a disaster, then the other is too.

[NySpartan4]

PS- these are genuine questions. I am not trying to bash any player or their supporters.

[towelie]

Dolan's involvement makes one thing clear:

Donnie hasn't had his option exercised yet because Dolan probably told him in less simple terms: "get Melo, get your option."

Dolan being so hands on in this process is BAD NEWS imo. The last thing we want is the look of desperation so close to the deadline, especially when Donnie has played his poker face so well up till now.

If we lose 2 or 3 out of Gallo, Chandler, Fields...we can blame it all on Dolan.

On the other hand, Dolan may be the one who actually agrees to take back Harrington/Balkman if he's speaking directly to Kroenke...irregardless of how D'Antoni may feel about Free Candy.

[vallen]

The deadlines not till the 24th, why fold now ? if dolan called big deal, but im not sure im buying the story. either way people are overreacting.

Isolas always the one stirring the pot about Isiah coming back. Hes also famous for having "sources familiar with negotiations" or sources "Familiar with the teams thinking" leaving his sources to be anyone from incarcerated bob all the way to the talking clam...

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

KG what do you think of the rumored Dolan call to Kroenke?

Honestly I don't mind it. I don't completely trust Dolan but I also don't believe he's half as horrible as most fans/media believe. I think he can have a positive impact by helping the Knicks go around these two clowns in Denver's front office.

I actually think Dolan would defer about the basketball part of the decision -- he's probably just trying to get a sense of what Kroenke is willing or not willing to do and whether a deal can be made.

I think it really depends on the nature of it. Is this a move in conjunction with what Walsh is doing, or is it going around Donnie? My only hope is that Dolan and Walsh are on the exact same page with this. On the surface, it obviously doesn't seem good to have a GM's pokerface get completely undermined by the owner. It's tough to play hard-to-get if Dolan is begging.

[nykgeneralmanager]

He is an elite scorer, you can argue that he and Durant are the top 2. He can just score in so many ways that it is impossible to stop him some night such as last night. Elite "player"? Not so much. He is a top 10, maybe top 15 player because of his scoring ability though.

Also, he is the top rebounding SF in the NBA, so pairing him with Fields in the starting lineup would actually help, and I think that fact has gone unnoticed because of the focus on his scoring. We can really use his rebounding though.

[mpharris36]

Yes he is an elite player. He has brought a mediocre nuggets team every year to the playoffs in the tough western conference. He has never played with a low post scorer such as amare in his career. Sure he is not outstanding defender or 3-point shooter. He argueably has the best mid range game in the NBA (maybe someone could argue kobe). He also is a proving scorer and a proven scorer late.

The difference between good teams and great teams is there ability to score in the 4th quarter. It is well known around the league that teams tighten up in the 4th and play better defense. You need an elite scorer that has the ability to create his own shot and make the clutch shot down the stretch.

We will no longer have Felton chucking an awful 3 at the end fo the game praying it goes in. Remember when we were all jumping up for joy when Wilson but up a 5 game stretch of like 23 points and was playing really well and we were thinking he was going to be a star. Carmelo does that almost every night.

nuff said!

[K_ick_God]

KG what do you think of the rumored Dolan call to Kroenke?

Honestly I don't mind it. I don't completely trust Dolan but I also don't believe he's half as horrible as most fans/media believe. I think he can have a positive impact by helping the Knicks go around these two clowns in Denver's front office.

I actually think Dolan would defer about the basketball part of the decision -- he's probably just trying to get a sense of what Kroenke is willing or not willing to do and whether a deal can be made.

I think it really depends on the nature of it. Is this a move in conjunction with what Walsh is doing, or is it going around Donnie? My only hope is that Dolan and Walsh are on the exact same page with this. On the surface, it obviously doesn't seem good to have a GM's pokerface get completely undermined by the owner. It's tough to play hard-to-get if Dolan is begging.

True, all good points.

I feel that Dolan would not undermine his basketball people and that this is in coordination with Walsh. Remember Donnie felt that he couldn't get a straight answer from Denver about what they wanted from the Knicks, and was having trouble getting them to engage, or tango? So I am guessing (hoping?) that this was about getting better information because Denver's front office is so weak.

I'm sure Dolan & Kroenke have a good relationship and that is how this idea came about.

[J9Starks3]

He is an elite scorer, you can argue that he and Durant are the top 2. He can just score in so many ways that it is impossible to stop him some night such as last night. Elite "player"? Not so much. He is a top 10, maybe top 15 player because of his scoring ability though.

Also, he is the top rebounding SF in the NBA, so pairing him with Fields in the starting lineup would actually help, and I think that fact has gone unnoticed because of the focus on his scoring. We can really use his rebounding though.

I guess it all depends on how you define "elite"... in one token, you say hes not Elite...the next sentence you say hes a top 10-15 player in the league... so if you ask me, thats elite if you are a top 10 player in the NBA... if theres about 450 players in the league and you're in the top 2%...thats pretty good.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

He is an elite scorer, you can argue that he and Durant are the top 2. He can just score in so many ways that it is impossible to stop him some night such as last night. Elite "player"? Not so much. He is a top 10, maybe top 15 player because of his scoring ability though.

Also, he is the top rebounding SF in the NBA, so pairing him with Fields in the starting lineup would actually help, and I think that fact has gone unnoticed because of the focus on his scoring. We can really use his rebounding though.

Yeah, I basically agree with this. And great point about the rebounding.

Kobe, LeBron, and Durant (who is very underrated on defense) are the truly elite because of how they play on both sides of the ball. Wade is close to that group, but not quite there. Melo is just not on that level, as an all-around player.

And those are just wing players. There are also guys like Deron Williams and Dwight Howard who don't have Melo's scoring ability, but probably do more for their respective teams overall.

[god shammgod]

The deadlines not till the 24th, why fold now ? if dolan called big deal, but im not sure im buying the story. either way people are overreacting.

Isolas always the one stirring the pot about Isiah coming back. Hes also famous for having "sources familiar with negotiations" or sources "Familiar with the teams thinking" leaving his sources to be anyone from incarcerated bob all the way to the talking clam...

yeah, that article is a lot of fear mongering. maybe kreoke wanted to talk directly to dolan, we don't know. isola is full of sh*t though. in this article he writes that dolan wanted iverson and walsh stopped him. here's another article by him, when it was happening, where he says walsh wanted iverson and dolan stopped him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2009/11/20/2009-11-20_dolan_iverson.html

[NySpartan4]

He is an elite scorer, you can argue that he and Durant are the top 2. He can just score in so many ways that it is impossible to stop him some night such as last night. Elite "player"? Not so much. He is a top 10, maybe top 15 player because of his scoring ability though.

Also, he is the top rebounding SF in the NBA, so pairing him with Fields in the starting lineup would actually help, and I think that fact has gone unnoticed because of the focus on his scoring. We can really use his rebounding though.

Good point. Carmelo can score. That's for sure. So he's always gonna be a headache for the opposing team. Though, would the ball be distributed or would it basically be a Carmelo and Stat show?

Hope the knicks only have to let go, one of the two - Chandler or Gallo. though Gallo's 3 point shooting is gonna be missed and his ability to draw fouls (both on offense and defense). Carmelo's 3 point shooting is horrible!

[nykgeneralmanager]

He is an elite scorer, you can argue that he and Durant are the top 2. He can just score in so many ways that it is impossible to stop him some night such as last night. Elite "player"? Not so much. He is a top 10, maybe top 15 player because of his scoring ability though.

Also, he is the top rebounding SF in the NBA, so pairing him with Fields in the starting lineup would actually help, and I think that fact has gone unnoticed because of the focus on his scoring. We can really use his rebounding though.

I guess it all depends on how you define "elite"... in one token, you say hes not Elite...the next sentence you say hes a top 10-15 player in the league... so if you ask me, thats elite if you are a top 10 player in the NBA... if theres about 450 players in the league and you're in the top 2%...thats pretty good.

True, its really just semantics. I consider guys like LeBron, Wade, Durant, and a few others to be elite. Melo is more or less in Amare's category, I don't think those two are elite. They're too one dimensional in their impact on the game, even though both are incredible in that one dimension.

[NoLayupRule]

Oi, what a thread

[omerome]

I think he is an elite player but doesn't get the accolades like many of the other superstars because of their playoff resumes imo.

The knock on him is his defense but it isn't that bad. People expect him to be a lockdown defender while being unstoppable scoring machine which isn't fair. Besides, there are/were elite players who were offensively inept but were great at other areas.

[captain subtext]

He's the elite version of Al Harington. So, yeah, he's some sort of elite player. Just not the most desirable one.

[omerome]

[True, its really just semantics. I consider guys like LeBron, Wade, Durant, and a few others to be elite. Melo is more or less in Amare's category, I don't think those two are elite. They're too one dimensional in their impact on the game, even though both are incredible in that one dimension.

Just curious but other than age what makes Durant an elite player but not Carmelo? I have watched some OKC games here and there and it seems that Durant and Carmelo are very similar...

[Daaaarryyl]

Donnie didn't draft Fred Jones. That was Isiah's call when they were both in Indy together IIRC..

[NySpartan4]

Oi, what a thread

lol good or bad? haha sorry if you this it's a horrible thread. I kinda panicked a little when i saw that his all around game is subpar (barely)...though his offense is sweet..

Plus, I havent made a thread in eleventyseven years