[Camelo Thread Part 15] - Slim Chance of LA/DEN Deal

[St Knick]

i dunno, he DID have 50 points and 11 rebounds lastnight... made the playoffs every year and virtually gets 50 wins on his team, year in, year out... he is the clear alpha dog on his team. arguably the best clutch player in the league. doesnt get enough credit for being a beast of a rebounder as a SF (8+ a game). plays lebron headsup as well as anyone in the league (small sample, yes, but this will matter in the playoffs, the heat will be here for years to come)... i dont see how he's not somewhere in the 6-10 range.

there really isn't THAT big of a difference between him and Durant... and Durant gets endless praise. Maybe peopel are slow to put the past behind them (referencing Melo's sketchy character past.. the gangsta video, all of that crap)

[Dr. Detfink]

So long as Denver keeps winning, Dolan won't get his hands on Melo. Nuggets will roll the dice.

[towelie]

The deadlines not till the 24th, why fold now ? if dolan called big deal, but im not sure im buying the story. either way people are overreacting.

Isolas always the one stirring the pot about Isiah coming back. Hes also famous for having "sources familiar with negotiations" or sources "Familiar with the teams thinking" leaving his sources to be anyone from incarcerated bob all the way to the talking clam...

yeah, that article is a lot of fear mongering. maybe kreoke wanted to talk directly to dolan, we don't know. isola is full of sh*t though. in this article he writes that dolan wanted iverson and walsh stopped him. here's another article by him, when it was happening, where he says walsh wanted iverson and dolan stopped him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2009/11/20/2009-11-20_dolan_iverson.html

Yup, Isola has a habit of speculating in a previous article, and then trotting it around as truth in a later article, hoping his readers forgot that it was originally all conjecture. Much like how he speculated last month about how Amar'e didn't want Melo on the team and a "source" from the Phoenix Suns told him that Amar'e didn't want to share the spotlight.

I wouldn't be surprised if we read an article from Isola later stating how Amar'e doesn't want to play with Melo as if it were a foregone conclusion now.

[K_ick_God]

The deadlines not till the 24th, why fold now ? if dolan called big deal, but im not sure im buying the story. either way people are overreacting.

Isolas always the one stirring the pot about Isiah coming back. Hes also famous for having "sources familiar with negotiations" or sources "Familiar with the teams thinking" leaving his sources to be anyone from incarcerated bob all the way to the talking clam...

yeah, that article is a lot of fear mongering. maybe kreoke wanted to talk directly to dolan, we don't know. isola is full of sh*t though. in this article he writes that dolan wanted iverson and walsh stopped him. here's another article by him, when it was happening, where he says walsh wanted iverson and dolan stopped him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2009/11/20/2009-11-20_dolan_iverson.html

Not to defend Asshatola, because he's indefensible, but I think he's saying in both articles that Dolan stopped Walsh from adding Iverson.

[Brownsville's Finest]

yes

[Knicksin2011]

Last week we heard that nothing would get done until the "middle of next week"...Is this the middle of next week event? I believe this Dolan conversation is not basketball, but rather dollars and cents.

I seem to recall that the owner did not want to sign off on the Nets deal because of the lack of financial savings...well here it is!!! Do you want WC + 20+M in savings + a pick or two or would you rather have this conversation in July after paying the Luxury Tax when our offer is a trade exemption and a 2016 first rounder protected to 25?

[god shammgod]

The deadlines not till the 24th, why fold now ? if dolan called big deal, but im not sure im buying the story. either way people are overreacting.

Isolas always the one stirring the pot about Isiah coming back. Hes also famous for having "sources familiar with negotiations" or sources "Familiar with the teams thinking" leaving his sources to be anyone from incarcerated bob all the way to the talking clam...

yeah, that article is a lot of fear mongering. maybe kreoke wanted to talk directly to dolan, we don't know. isola is full of sh*t though. in this article he writes that dolan wanted iverson and walsh stopped him. here's another article by him, when it was happening, where he says walsh wanted iverson and dolan stopped him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2009/11/20/2009-11-20_dolan_iverson.html

I think he's saying in both articles that Dolan stopped Walsh from adding Iverson.

you're right i read that wrong.

[aggo]

the latest wiretap insinuates that we need to add some combination of fields, gallo or moz to get it close to being done.

[K_ick_God]

Last week we heard that nothing would get done until the "middle of next week"...Is this the middle of next week event? I believe this Dolan conversation is not basketball, but rather dollars and cents.

I seem to recall that the owner did not want to sign off on the Nets deal because of the lack of financial savings...well here it is!!! Do you want WC + 20+M in savings + a pick or two or would you rather have this conversation in July after paying the Luxury Tax when our offer is a trade exemption and a 2016 first rounder protected to 25?

It could be this too. A financial structuring of the deal. I'm sure Warkentien also advised Walsh/Dolan on calling Kroenke.

[Da_Mane_Man]

i think we make too much of his defensive "deficiency".

melo is not a BAD defender. i remember watching the nuggets in the playoffs a couple of years ago and thinking "wow, this team is really playing good team defense". that's when i was convinced that melo was better than wade. he had really bought in to Karl's scheme and he was busting his butt on the defensive end. that's where i saw that he was capable of it and that he was an ELITE player.

this year though, i think it's a different story. he really doesn't want to be there and he's not really giving it his all. when you've got tools like jr smith on your team chucking unconsciously, it's a little hard to dig in and try your hardest on defense.

and let's not kid ourselves, these guys are ALL human and most of them don't go all out 100% of the time. so let's not try to bring up any "red flags" because he's "dogging it" this year. Melo is an ELITE player and he will make us an ELITE team.

and while we're at it ... how many of these *top players in the league* are great defenders? really. is durant a good defender? wade? bosh? brandon roy? steve nash? rudy gay?

[seren]

Denver is going to play 5 games in 8 days. I don't think this is the time for them to make a trade. I think the deal is going to happen no earlier than the all-star weekend. The owner may also want to discuss that franchise tag stuff with other owners and get a feeling with the players' association about the next CBA. Given a deal won't happen for a while, why the heck am I checking this website all day?

[omerome]

i think we make too much of his defensive "deficiency".

melo is not a BAD defender. i remember watching the nuggets in the playoffs a couple of years ago and thinking "wow, this team is really playing good team defense". that's when i was convinced that melo was better than wade. he had really bought in to Karl's scheme and he was busting his butt on the defensive end. that's where i saw that he was capable of it and that he was an ELITE player.

this year though, i think it's a different story. he really doesn't want to be there and he's not really giving it his all. when you've got tools like jr smith on your team chucking unconsciously, it's a little hard to dig in and try your hardest on defense.

and let's not kid ourselves, these guys are ALL human and most of them don't go all out 100% of the time. so let's not try to bring up any "red flags" because he's "dogging it" this year. Melo is an ELITE player and he will make us an ELITE team.

and while we're at it ... how many of these *top players in the league* are great defenders? really. is durant a good defender? wade? bosh? brandon roy? steve nash? rudy gay?

Exactly the point I wanted to make about Durant.

[towelie]

Denver is going to play 5 games in 8 days. I don't think this is the time for them to make a trade. I think the deal is going to happen no earlier than the all-star weekend. The owner may also want to discuss that franchise tag stuff with other owners and get a feeling with the players' association about the next CBA. Given a deal won't happen for a while, why the heck am I checking this website all day?

Yeah, this Melo saga has been more draining than the LeBron chase, solely because I'm constantly checking daily for any updates.

At least with LeBron, the frenzy was contained to a 7-day period.

[nykgeneralmanager]

[True, its really just semantics. I consider guys like LeBron, Wade, Durant, and a few others to be elite. Melo is more or less in Amare's category, I don't think those two are elite. They're too one dimensional in their impact on the game, even though both are incredible in that one dimension.

Just curious but other than age what makes Durant an elite player but not Carmelo? I have watched some OKC games here and there and it seems that Durant and Carmelo are very similar...

Durant is one of the most efficient elite scorers this league has ever seen based on what he did last year. And whether its fair or not, taking into account his size makes him way more unique than your prototypical SF such as Melo. Then after all of that, he is still just 22. I don't think the gap is that wide between them as pure scorers, but Durant is better/plays harder on the defensive end which separates him from a guy like Melo.

But you're right, its not as if Durant is 20 times better than him, he is just more efficient and unique/younger.

[BernardKing]

Yup, Isola has a habit of speculating in a previous article, and then trotting it around as truth in a later article, hoping his readers forgot that it was originally all conjecture. Much like how he speculated last month about how Amar'e didn't want Melo on the team and a "source" from the Phoenix Suns told him that Amar'e didn't want to share the spotlight.

I wouldn't be surprised if we read an article from Isola later stating how Amar'e doesn't want to play with Melo as if it were a foregone conclusion now.

Newspapers (print media as a whole) are hanging on by a thread in this internet age. Internet writers like Broussard are known to make stuff up, and newspaper guys like Isola respond in kind, feeling that it's become "fair game" to manufacture stories.

There's so much BS being flung around right now. It's hard to believe any rumors. Especially rumors involving Dolan, because we know he hasn't talked to the media in years, and therefore he's unlikely to deny the rumor. I believe this Isola story to be 100% BS, but I don't blame him for writing it because he has to keep up with all the other made up BS that's being flung around haphazardly.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Durant is a better defender than Melo. Is Durant dominant on defense? No. Is Melo horrible on defense? No. But Durant is the better defender.

[Justdatdude]

Durant is a better offball defender and Melo is a better on ball defender. Its as simple as that. Neither are great defenders so putting one above the other based on defense is flatout foolish. I guess you can give the edge to Durant on who is better because they're both great scorers, but Durant does it more efficiently. Any other argument for why Durant is better is ridiculous. And the only reason to put Melo above Durant is if you say Carmelo is more clutch and can score in more ways than Durant because he has a post game. Nothing sets either apart as players besides the fact that Durant scores more efficiently.

And if multiple people is calling Carmelo the best offensive player in the game or one of the top 5 offensive players in the game, how isn't he elite? Is his defense that bad that it completely takes him out of the discussion? He's not on a Lebron level because he's not as good a passer as Lebron. This is why he's head and shoulders above every player in the league. As far as these other guys people are calling superstars, he's on their level. In a one game scenario, Lebron, Kobe, and Wade are the only 3 players I'm considering taking over Melo as of right now. Dwight Howard is great defender, but he's not going to carry your offense. Durant is great, but I seen him come up short to many times in big moments to take him over Melo. Those 3 players and possibly Deron Williams are the only players I'll put in the discussion with Melo if I needed to take a star player for just 1 game.

[pwayknicks]

Not elite player...hes an elite offensive player...

Elite players are elite offensive and elite defensive players....neither Melo or STAT are that...

LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Dwill, CP3, Howard are among the elite in the NBA...

But from just an offensive stand point....

Other than Kobe, James, Dwill, Dirk I dont think id want anyone else with the ball in their hands late in a game....

I just hope if we are able to get Melo, we go for it all this year and deal Felton for Nash...

If we arent going to play defense, lets really try to outscore teams...

Nash
Fields
Melo
Amare
Mozgov

[Johnny Hoops]

I live in Denver and watch Melo quite a bit.

I watched the entire game last night as Melo made Battier and Chuck Hayes appear invisible on the defensive end.

He is the best 20 foot and in scorer in the NBA -- bar none.

He is also the most physical offensive player in the league - he's someone who punishes his defender every night.

I'd say he's a top 15 player easily --- top 10 potentially.

[omerome]

Durant is one of the most efficient elite scorers this league has ever seen based on what he did last year. And whether its fair or not, taking into account his size makes him way more unique than your prototypical SF such as Melo. Then after all of that, he is still just 22. I don't think the gap is that wide between them as pure scorers, but Durant is better/plays harder on the defensive end which separates him from a guy like Melo.

But you're right, its not as if Durant is 20 times better than him, he is just more efficient and unique/younger.

I won't argue because Durant is a better defender than Carmelo but when you look at everything at a higher view, I really don't see how it should tip the scales into one player being elite while another isn't.

To me being elite doesn't mean that it's only reserved for only 3-5 people. If you have an ability or abilities that are better than a typical player and can raise your game to another level when needed, you're elite. Whether that's defensively or offensively.