[Camelo Thread Part 16] - Denver wants what?! p58

[god shammgod]

1) This team is not winning a ring. The reason we like our young players are they gave us flexibility to add more. 2) How is it the same team? You will have two of Fields, Gallo, and Chandler gone. Instead you would have Al Harrington in. Amare, Melo, Felton, one of those three, Mozgov, Al (the headcase), and bunch of minimum players are not winning a championship plus we will be capped out.

we won't take al and lose two. in fact, it seems unlikely we take al at all from walsh's comments. how do our young players give us flexibility to add more. this summer chandler needs to be paid. gallo & fields next summer. no matter what you do, we'll be over the cap in the 2012-2013 season and for years after.

[JordanXI]

As much as I want Melo, I am not down with losing two and taking back Al.

If we're taking back Al they get Curry, Randolph, Chandler, and Azu if they want him. Maybe Rautins if Donnie's feeling generous.

Also, what we've heard from Donnie today about maintaining flexibility for 2012, it doesn't look like we'll be taking Al back at all.

[seren]

1) This team is not winning a ring. The reason we like our young players are they gave us flexibility to add more. 2) How is it the same team? You will have two of Fields, Gallo, and Chandler gone. Instead you would have Al Harrington in. Amare, Melo, Felton, one of those three, Mozgov, Al (the headcase), and bunch of minimum players are not winning a championship plus we will be capped out.

we won't take al and lose two. in fact, it seems unlikely we take al at all from walsh's comments. how do our young players give us flexibility to add more. this summer chandler needs to be paid. gallo & fields next summer. no matter what you do, we'll be over the cap in the 2012-2013 season and for years after.

If this is the case, no worry. Let's go and get Melo. I just answered the question about taking on bad contracts (with the worse being al) and I said it beats the purpose of getting Melo now.

In terms of young players, yeah, they do give us flexibility. When/if CP3 wants out, you can use them as trade baits. Plus the only way Knicks are a viable option for potential FAs is if we keep the salary flexibility. Think about it. The only reason when/if Denver decides to deal Melo to us for a mediocre package (and let's be honest even giving all three is a mediocre package for a guy like Melo) is because we have the flexibility to sign Melo in the summer. Until the trio (Amare/Melo/CP3 or Deron) is complete, we should not take on bad contracts. Simple as that.

[thehandler3]

It doesn't make sense to take Al back and then give them another youngen. Technically, the Knicks taking back such a bad contract should lessen the price for such a player as Melo not result us in giving up more young talent. If it was just Melo, then I could understand if they demanded two youngens (I still might pull the trigger) but if we take Al back as a favor for them than we should not have to give up as much in young talent.

[god shammgod]

1) This team is not winning a ring. The reason we like our young players are they gave us flexibility to add more. 2) How is it the same team? You will have two of Fields, Gallo, and Chandler gone. Instead you would have Al Harrington in. Amare, Melo, Felton, one of those three, Mozgov, Al (the headcase), and bunch of minimum players are not winning a championship plus we will be capped out.

we won't take al and lose two. in fact, it seems unlikely we take al at all from walsh's comments. how do our young players give us flexibility to add more. this summer chandler needs to be paid. gallo & fields next summer. no matter what you do, we'll be over the cap in the 2012-2013 season and for years after.

If this is the case, no worry. Let's go and get Melo. I just answered the question about taking on bad contracts (with the worse being al) and I said it beats the purpose of getting Melo now.

In terms of young players, yeah, they do give us flexibility. When/if CP3 wants out, you can use them as trade baits. Plus the only way Knicks are a viable option for potential FAs is if we keep the salary flexibility. Think about it. The only reason when/if Denver decides to deal Melo to us for a mediocre package (and let's be honest even giving all three is a mediocre package for a guy like Melo) is because we have the flexibility to sign Melo in the summer. Until the trio (Amare/Melo/CP3 or Deron) is complete, we should not take on bad contracts. Simple as that.

ok, you want to be a player in 2012, fine. but originally you said adding melo won't help at all, which was a ridiculous comment. you should realize though, even if we get melo the way you want, there's no guarantees anyone else comes here.

[duetta]

I'm resigned to at least two, and maybe all three guys going, as Dolan forces Donnie to cave - especially after Anthony destroyed the Knicks leverage yesterday.

I think if Faye Vincent hadn't suspended Steinbrenner in the late 80s, I might have stopped watching baseball alltogether. Dolan is truly curing me of a 40+ year Knick obsession.

[seren]

we won't take al and lose two. in fact, it seems unlikely we take al at all from walsh's comments. how do our young players give us flexibility to add more. this summer chandler needs to be paid. gallo & fields next summer. no matter what you do, we'll be over the cap in the 2012-2013 season and for years after.

If this is the case, no worry. Let's go and get Melo. I just answered the question about taking on bad contracts (with the worse being al) and I said it beats the purpose of getting Melo now.

In terms of young players, yeah, they do give us flexibility. When/if CP3 wants out, you can use them as trade baits. Plus the only way Knicks are a viable option for potential FAs is if we keep the salary flexibility. Think about it. The only reason when/if Denver decides to deal Melo to us for a mediocre package (and let's be honest even giving all three is a mediocre package for a guy like Melo) is because we have the flexibility to sign Melo in the summer. Until the trio (Amare/Melo/CP3 or Deron) is complete, we should not take on bad contracts. Simple as that.

ok, you want to be a player in 2012, fine. but originally you said adding melo won't help at all, which was a ridiculous comment. you should realize though, even if we get melo the way you want, there's no guarantees anyone else comes here.

It is a misunderstanding I guess. Of course, Melo wins you more games. But he does not make us a contender. I think somebody will come here when we have Amare and Melo and money to spend. You really think players won't want to be part of this group especially when they can also get paid? We are not really talking about getting Kobe for mid-level here.

[god shammgod]

It is a misunderstanding I guess. Of course, Melo wins you more games. But he does not make us a contender. I think somebody will come here when we have Amare and Melo and money to spend. You really think players won't want to be part of this group especially when they can also get paid? We are not really talking about getting Kobe for mid-level here.

i hope players do want to come but who knows. i'm also not sure we're going to have another max slot to use as leverage. with amare & melo's salary under the old cba and a new cap number under the new cba, who knows if that's even possible.

i do think we become a contender with just melo. we're not the best team in the league or the conference, but we have a chance. we'd have to make the right small moves too.

[knicks742]

We will not give our "final" offer until denver is ready to have serious negotiations. That is not the case yet.

I also think that people should not underestimate the value of the $20 million in immediate cash savings. No other recent major trade, not KG, not Kidd, not AI, not Shaq, not Gasol has saved the selling team so much money outright.

The Shaq trade to Cleveland comes the closest to having immediate savings and Cleveland got him for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic and a second round pick in the 50s. Although admittedly Shaq wasn't as much of a star at the time of that trade.

In my opinion, I would replace Chandler with Gallo but I am taking AR off the table and Denver has to take Eddy, Gallo and a pick or something like that. They are not getting the $20 million in savings and 2 out of the 3.

[seren]

It is a misunderstanding I guess. Of course, Melo wins you more games. But he does not make us a contender. I think somebody will come here when we have Amare and Melo and money to spend. You really think players won't want to be part of this group especially when they can also get paid? We are not really talking about getting Kobe for mid-level here.

i hope players do want to come but who knows. i'm also not sure we're going to have another max slot to use as leverage. with amare & melo's salary under the old cba and a new cap number under the new cba, who knows if that's even possible.

i do think we become a contender with just melo. we're not the best team in the league or the conference, but we have a chance. we'd have to make the right small moves too.

how so? i don't think amare/melo combo is better than wade/lbj/bosh trio. and we are not even close to a full team like boston where they are solid top to bottom. we would probably be a second tier like atlanta and chicago. maybe we can catch up orlando, but that is it. small moves won't make us better than miami or boston.

[god shammgod]

It is a misunderstanding I guess. Of course, Melo wins you more games. But he does not make us a contender. I think somebody will come here when we have Amare and Melo and money to spend. You really think players won't want to be part of this group especially when they can also get paid? We are not really talking about getting Kobe for mid-level here.

i hope players do want to come but who knows. i'm also not sure we're going to have another max slot to use as leverage. with amare & melo's salary under the old cba and a new cap number under the new cba, who knows if that's even possible.

i do think we become a contender with just melo. we're not the best team in the league or the conference, but we have a chance. we'd have to make the right small moves too.

how so? i don't think amare/melo combo is better than wade/lbj/bosh trio. and we are not even close to a full team like boston where they are solid top to bottom. we would probably be a second tier like atlanta and chicago. maybe we can catch up orlando, but that is it. small moves won't make us better than miami or boston.

i said we wouldn't be better. sometimes a worse team beats a better team though. we'd have to be lucky. to be honest, even if we put together a trio of melo, amare, paul, miami might still be better.

[truth serum]

Does anyone else think with melo thinking bout the reason he is sayin he might sign an extension with denver... so denver thinks they have chance so they dnt trade him which means knicks stay with all there pieces and melo will jus sign as a free agent... his statement makes them think if they should even trade him

Lol no. He wouldn't just try to kill the trade all together now after this whole charade. He wants out now. He wants his money and he wants to make a playoff run with Amar'e this year.

[Knicker23]

No, if we want to beat Miami NOW we need to be lucky..... you add Melo, we don't need as much luck.... Amare and Melo could easily cancel out Wade and James on any day of the week... then it becomes what, whether Bosh would have a bigger impact than any of the other guys? Whether the rest of the guys that aren't Melo and Amare on our team are better than the rest of the guys on the Heat that aren't James and Wade........ Beating Miami wouldn't be some unbelievable feat that we'd savor like we would now... it would still be tough, but not something out of the realm of possibility every single night with Melo and Amare on the floor.

[truth serum]

I'm resigned to at least two, and maybe all three guys going, as Dolan forces Donnie to cave - especially after Anthony destroyed the Knicks leverage yesterday.

I think if Faye Vincent hadn't suspended Steinbrenner in the late 80s, I might have stopped watching baseball alltogether. Dolan is truly curing me of a 40+ year Knick obsession.

Take it easy, man. Let this play out. As someone who's been around for a while, you should know a wise old vet like Walsh will do the right thing by this team. Don't jump to conclusions.

[typeriz]

Carmelo just tweeted to magic johnson, welcoming him to twitter.....
i Dont like the sounds of this!!

hey @magicjohnson- welcome to twitter. takes some time to get used to, I'm still tryin to figure it out.

[god shammgod]

No, if we want to beat Miami NOW we need to be lucky..... you add Melo, we don't need as much luck....

i disagree. i say there's no chance of beating miami in a 7 game series now but there is a chance with melo. i still wouldn't bet on it but there's a chance. who we get with the mle/ our draft pick will be important. it aint happening this year anyway.

[god shammgod]

Carmelo just tweeted to magic johnson, welcoming him to twitter.....
i Dont like the sounds of this!!

hey @magicjohnson- welcome to twitter. takes some time to get used to, I'm still tryin to figure it out.

i'm worried too. i think he will give up basketball and open a bunch of movie theaters now.

[Knicker23]

No, if we want to beat Miami NOW we need to be lucky..... you add Melo, we don't need as much luck....

i disagree. i say there's no chance of beating miami in a 7 game series now but there is a chance with melo. i still wouldn't bet on it but there's a chance. who we get with the mle/ our draft pick will be important. it aint happening this year anyway.

Ha what are you disagreeing about? I too think there isn't any real chance that we'd beat miami now either... as i said, even in regular season games, the only way we beat them is by luck.... you add melo that changes things around a lot.. would we be a 'favorite' or even a 'good chance' to beat them in a 7 game series - of course not, but who would be... we'd have just as good a chance as anyone in the league.... and who knows what could happen in the playoffs, some dark horse team could knock them out... then how are we looking.

[god shammgod]

No, if we want to beat Miami NOW we need to be lucky..... you add Melo, we don't need as much luck....

i disagree. i say there's no chance of beating miami in a 7 game series now but there is a chance with melo. i still wouldn't bet on it but there's a chance. who we get with the mle/ our draft pick will be important. it aint happening this year anyway.

Ha what are you disagreeing about? I too think there isn't any real chance that we'd beat miami now either... as i said, even in regular season games, the only way we beat them is by luck.... you add melo that changes things around a lot.. would we be a 'favorite' or even a 'good chance' to beat them in a 7 game series - of course not, but who would be... we'd have just as good a chance as anyone in the league.... and who knows what could happen in the playoffs, some dark horse team could knock them out... then how are we looking.

ok. we're agreeing.

[seren]

i said we wouldn't be better. sometimes a worse team beats a better team though. we'd have to be lucky. to be honest, even if we put together a trio of melo, amare, paul, miami might still be better.

see I disagree there. amare would torture bosh inside. melo can match up in terms of scoring with all those guys and cp3 is a true playmaker miami will never have. as a unit amare/melo/cp3 fit much much better than those three clowns out in miami. obviously amare and melo have to bring it on defense (cp3 always does), but they have the ability. it is a question of will on the defensive end. i like our chances with that trio.